MovieChat Forums > Joker (2019) Discussion > Things that need some 'splainin

Things that need some 'splainin


Watched this a couple night ago, notice a few things were off (not which nerd universe the Joker exists in, but just stuff in the movie):

(1) Thomas Wayne is like 55, and Joker is at least 40 (more like 45-50). And Joker's mom is like at 60-70. So why is it that Joker believes Wayne is his father? I realize his mom told him that, but couldn't he put 2 and 2 together and do the math? Wayne even said that he hired Joker's mom when she was a girl, so is he supposed to be older, like 80? If so, he doesn't look like it, and then he has a 10 year old kid too.

(2) Did he imagine the whole relationship with the apartment building neighbor? Looked like she was around and reciprocating his interest, but then in the end he was in her apartment and acted like she'd never met him.

(3) The Joker character just seemed a bit too naive. I know this movie is supposed to be some kind of independent nerd universe thing, but the Joker I remember was crazy is an intelligent, crafty, evil way, not in a childish, timid, gullible way. The character is supposed to be self-aware, even though he's nuts. This portrayal just maker him look like a dim mama's boy that can't tie his own shoes.

(4) Going to point #3, how is it that the Joker is supposed to lead this organized criminal underworld if he can't even remember to change his underwear? You need charisma to do that sort of thing.

Now, if you're telling me none of this matters because this story takes the Joker in a new direction, my response to that is: Why the hell you callin' it Joker then? Why not "Evil Clown Boy," or "Clowntown" or "Requiem for a Clown?" or "Boondock Clowns?"

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Very good point, look forward to any answers. Point 2, I thought it was quite obvious he imagined that. It even showed flash backs of their "date" where she wasn't actually there.

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On point #2, I thought that was the case. I didn't catch the part where it showed the flashbacks.

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It was really quick but the flashbacks happen when he breaks into her apartment. That's when you realize she doesn't know why he's there.

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1. It's made clear that he has issues that make it hard for him to distinguish fantasy from reality. He desperately wants a father figure -- like Murray or Thomas Wayne.

2. The movie gave you a clear answer

3 and 4. Are you sure he's "The Joker"? Is that made clear or left intentionally ambiguous? Is that the title of the movie?

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On 3 and 4, the movie takes place in Gotham City, he's a clown, he asks Murray to call him the joker, he wears the right make-up at the end, and he's constantly connected to the Wayne family culminating in him shooting Thomas Wayne.

So it appears that he is meant to be the Joker. Which sort of begs the question, why is this guy so naive and unintelligent? Perhaps when his meds get completely out of his bloodstream that will free his mind to be the smart, charismatic kook he's supposed to be.

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Huh? Who shot Thomas Wayne?

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He didn't even notice the flashback showing that the relationship with the neighbor was imagination.

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Yeah, it doesn't seem like he was paying attention.

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He didn't shoot Thomas Wayne a riotor in a clown mask did, most likely that was Joe Chill

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(1) Kinda guessing at ages there. Thomas Wayne could be 57 and Arthur 39. Not everyone is the exact age they look.

(2) Yes, he imagined the relationship with the neighbor. It showed in flashbacks you must have missed. She only actually knew him from the one meeting in the elevator/hallway.

(3) This is a big one... but think about it... at what point was the "Joker" naïve, mooma's boy, etc...? The Joker never became fully existent until the finale (right when he was about to go on stage with DeNiro).
Arthur was those things, but once he fully became the Joker, all that was gone. He start dancing right before they raised the curtain for him. He danced out and planted a big kiss on the old lady. Even his slow "looking through his book for a simple joke" bit was calculated. Then he calmly admitted his crimes, went into a diatribe against everyone, killed DeNiro laughed and clowned for the camera... At no point during all that did he appear weak in any way. He was confident, he was sure of himself, he was in total control of the entire room, even his tic of a laugh was under control.

As he alluded to just earlier, to the guy he butchered with scissors... he felt great! Being on all those meds were just enough to keep him barely sane... Just enough to keep him miserable in a pathetic life, barely holding down a sad job.
Once the meds were gone, his true potential could be realized. His inner madness was free to run wild. He was happy :)

(4) See (3)

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