Couldn't disagree more.
First, you talk about missing the territories, but also mention the shadiness of the WWF. As any of the guys from that era will tell you, it was even more shady then. As bad as you think Vince is, every territory had a promoter, and they were each shadier than the next. They all exploited the wrestlers, took advantage of them any way they could, tried to screw them out of money whenever possible, then tossed them aside when they were no longer useful.
The movie makes it a point to show how Andre thrived in this system. The way he would come to a territory as "an attraction", stay for a few weeks, then leave before people grew tired of the novelty of him. Of course promoters tried to exploit him, but he also figured how to work it to his advantage. The movie uses the end of the territories to show why Andres run as a top guy was coming to an end in the mid 80's, along with his detoriating health. And Vince himself even says how Andre felt exploited at the end of his life, when the WWF no longer wanted to have him in matches, but only as a special guest, and how his last interactions with Andre were not very friendly.
The whole movie is about his personality. Aside from his legendary drinking, and the farting, they talked about his ranch in North Carolina, and how at peace he felt there. How he interacted with his friends, both in the business and away from it, and what it was like if you got on his bad side. And mostly they talked about his sadness with not being able to lead a normal life. How he felt tortured by his size and how uncomfortable everyday life always was for him. One of Hogan's best scenes was talking about walking thru airports with Andre, and seeing how everyone stared and whispered about him, and how heartbreaking it was. Tim White was also fantastic in highlighting Andres pain as well as his sense of humor, which he described as "a little warped".
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Sandman81 (1509)
5 years ago
The part where Andre learns about his condition, but still opts not to seek treatment, is particularly important in understanding his mindset. He knew he wasn't going to live long, and life was only going to get more and more uncomfortable, but he still didn't want to give up who he was and accepted his fate.
While yes we did only see his daughter once (never even knew he had a kid), but how much more did we need? She did a great job of laying out her relationship with him (or lack of). He would visit whenever he was in town, but her mother and Andre didn't want her around the life. They loved each other and wished they could have seen each other more, but they understood that his life prevented that, and he was always pained by that. In the end when its realized that he left his estate to her shows that he did care for her and always wanted to make sure she was cared for.
Sorry it didn't cover more of the shadiness of the WWE like you would have wanted. But it wasn't about the WWE. It was about Andre, and his role in wrestling history. And how he was affected by the end of the territories, and how he helped wrestling reach unprecedented heights in the late 80's.
I really wonder how much of this doc you actually watched.
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President4Life (282)
5 years ago
It wasn't just about Andre though.
It was about WWE, that's why they spent disproportionate amount of the time talking about Wrestlemania III.
This was a film made by a WWE stooge in Simmons that sought to minimize most of his career and spare WWE any responsibility for how he ended up.
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Sandman81 (1509)
5 years ago
In your first post you complained that they didn't cover enough of the shadiness of the wrestling business, but now you're complaining that the doc wasn't only about Andre.
The only parts that weren't just about Andre were explaining the territories, and Vince's conquest of them. And both did a good job of explaining how each of those affected Andre.
While WrestleMania III did get the biggest section, it did stay on Andre's role in it and how important he was to its success. That event was monumental toward the success of wrestling, and it doesn't succeed if Andre is unable to go, or doesn't want to do the job for Hogan. And it was his last great moment in wrestling. While he wrestled for 3 more years, he limitations became harder and harder to hide to the point where he could barely even move.
And yes Simmons is a life long WWE mark, but they needed Vince and Hulk for this movie to work so yeah they're probably not going to spend much time trashing them. I think they made it clear that at the end of his career and life that he felt used and exploited by Vince, and their relationship ended on a sour note.
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President4Life (282)
5 years ago
No, they didn't need Vince & Hulk if they were going to tell the whole truth about Andre and his life.
They definitely needed Vince if they were gonna make a glamorized piece of WWE propaganda
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Sandman81 (1509)
5 years ago
Yes they did need Vince and Hulk.
Hulk was one of Andre's closest friends for a long time. They traveled the world together and worked together during the territory days, in Japan, and during the rise of WWE. He offered insight into Andre's personality, his sadness, and what it was like working with him, in particular on the biggest stage in wrestling history.
Vince was Andre's boss for the last decade of his career, and his father was his boss for a number of years prior to that. He gave us insight in how his father and Andre set up a business model where Andre could be "leased out" to other territories for short spans of time, then leave before people grew tired of him, and return to New York rejuvenated. Then how Andre felt used and unceremoniously dumped at the end.
And most importantly, WWE owns most of the tape from Andre's matches, so nobody was going to get this doc done without that footage, which means you need to be on Vince's good side. Simmons had been saying that for years. So sure they weren't going to trash WWE much, but I think they did at least reference the dark side of this business.
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President4Life (282)
5 years ago
"Dark Side of the Ring" on Vice is showing how this type of documentary on wrestling should be done.
I don't know if you've seen it or not, but it's what this could've been if it wasn't WWE propaganda
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Sandman81 (1509)
5 years ago
I have seen most the episodes of Dark Side of the Ring and have enjoyed them. And obviously they are done without WWE's support or anybody employed by them, although Bruce Pritchard got rehired by WWE after first season. But these shows are focused on the worst moments in wrestling history, or at least stories that brought negative attention to wrestling. They show who was involved, what lead to the events, what happened, then the aftermath. So of course this show is not going to show the wrestling business in a positive light, hence the name.
Whereas the Andre doc was about one extrodinary mans journey thru pro wrestling in the 70's and 80's. It covered the good and the bad. And they did cover a lot of the bad, more than I would have expected a WWE backed piece would. The rigors of being on the road so much, the strained relationship with his daughter, his deteriorating health, and how the business decided it was done with him. Sure it didn't beat you over the head with it the way DSR does, but if you watch it closely you can see that this isn't entirely a WWE fluff piece.
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