Why keep putting political messages in TV shows? - The Orville (2017) Discussion

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Could not agree more. I'm done watching because of it.

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[–] fc31 (5367) 7 years ago

Glad to know I am not the only one feel this way.

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

I don't mind occasional nods about society, but if I wanted to see depressing current events, I'd watch the news. Which I don't. So.... nothing to see here for me. :)

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[–] Keelai (34858) 7 years ago

I suggest you don't watch The Orville. It's an homage to Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek (original and Next Generation) which was a device for social commentary and an optimistic future.

Are there supposed to be second officers on a Starship 400 years in the future? Seems a bit redundant so they probably got rid of them.

About episode 3. Wouldn't the liberal idea be for the child to be transgendered which the captain and crew were against? The right-wing side won and the girl became a boy so you should be happy with this episode.

I agree about the universal code of ethics. Could multiple lifeforms really agree on an universal code of ethics? May have to settle with an "Almost Universal Code of Ethics".

BTW, it's OK if you don't watch. I've been rewatching episodes with On Demand. I guess I'm counted multiple times in their ratings stats. I really enjoy this show.

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[–] fc31 (5367) 7 years ago

I don't think you watched carefully. There is a second officer on the ship, it is the male only gender guy. But he sits nowhere near the captain, and you wonder why.

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[–] Keelai (34858) 7 years ago

I just rewatched the crew intros from the 1st episode and his rank was lost on me between the jokes re: the guy wanting to drink soda on the bridge as long as he doesn't spill it and they only urinate once each year.

And I just remembered that he was sitting on an egg in the 2nd episode which is why the young female was put in charge. Really hard for me to focus on the sane with the inane happening on this show.

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[–] Freddy (1325) 6 years ago

wow I had forgotten about some of this stuff I know that seth has a weird side to him and I think very unsure of his own talent, but making fun of others is not good each character has their own weird ways but he needs to focus on an enemy not his crew

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[–] McQualude (4231) 7 years ago

and the girl became a boy

I've taught you better. There were no boy and girl moclans, they are single sex creatures, hermaphrodites.

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[–] Keelai (34858) 7 years ago

Now you're just trolling.

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[–] McQualude (4231) 7 years ago

It's not trolling when you're right and I'm right. Calling it trolling is weak, you challenged and lost, don't be a sore loser.

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[–] Bubbathegut (18049) 7 years ago

K got pwned again!

lolz

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[–] McQualude (4231) 7 years ago

You have too much time on your hands to be posting under so many different accounts.

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[–] McQualude (4231) 7 years ago

I'll be glad when all the people looking for an excuse to be offended move on to something else. The writing is dumb sometimes but the show is fun overall.

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[–] gcarras (2770) 7 years ago

I agree with you. (even though I've never seen the show.) Ridiculous. It's the very same thing as even Ben and Jerry's ice cream, like I wanna enjoy Ice Cream, not feminism (or insert other left cause ;))

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[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

I'm trying to ignore the anti religious assumptions the show keeps making (I''m just rolling my eyes). I'm watching episode 6 which is poking fun of religion a second time. How shallow it is to pick on religion instead of lack of resources to be the root cause of war.

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[–] fc31 (5367) 7 years ago

I stopped watching after episode 3, though I never thought they would stoop so low to the point of anti-religion.

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[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

Its Seth Mcfarlen. He's already done it so many times in Family Guy.

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[–] Keelai (34858) 7 years ago

You're missing the point that the Krills are exploiting religion for their justification to wage war. It's an effective way to get people to follow. If you haven't been paying attention, nations and groups do that all the time. For instance, Christianity was used to justify slavery. And I don't think I need to mention groups like ISIL

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[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

I'm not going to get drawn into a debate with you on religion. I'm just registering my annoyance that Seth McFarlan again is using his shows as a platform to keep jabbing at religion which again is turning what could have been an interesting show into a propaganda machine for the left.

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[–] naDaht (1087) 7 years ago

You don't have to be "left" to be pro "no religion".

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[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

I never implied that. Seth is clearly a lefty.

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[–] VinceD (9805) 7 years ago

It's anti-religious-fanaticism, not anti-religious.

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[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

I doubt Seth MacFarlen can tell the difference. He's already made the assertion that as society progresses religion is lost.

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[–] Xenopharb (617) 7 years ago

We wouldn't want people who believe in your magical book to fight people who believe in their magical book. The belief of magical books is based on the culture you were born in. Your book is true because that is what your culture has taught you. Of course, they believe their book is true because that is what they have been taught in their culture. Neither book can be proven by science or is even interpreted the same as what the book believers down the street, but is is good enough to fight over, discriminate over, and kill for - even if the magical book says not to do that.

We wouldn't want to get rid of all those magical books in the future. We need one more thing to keep fighting over.

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[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

Thats nonsense. Most people of religious faith are peaceful. Either your trolling or you have a naive view of religion. Theres only one religion that seems to be flareing up right now in terms of violence but they'll call down in a generation or two.

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[–] Keelai (34858) 7 years ago

Most people of the "one religion that seems to be flaring up right now" are peaceful, too.

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[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 7 years ago

Because 95% of Hollywierd are flaming Libtard Morons.

😎

"I Am the FBI."

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[–] filmtenk (765) 7 years ago

Hollywierd✔️
Flaming✔️
Libtard✔️

You forgot snowflake and SJW.

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[–] lordbishop34 (1442) 7 years ago

Unfortunately this is considered acceptable by many people. I don't mind social issues making it on TV, but its rarely balanced takes and at its worst it takes you out of the show you are watching with social issues shoehorned into the narrative, like with Dr Who recently. Since entertainment industry is mostly left leaning the messaging leans that way.

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[–] Jes' Sayin' (6349) 7 years ago

A very good explanation about why political perspective is important:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8zulRA0wHw

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[–] fc31 (5367) 7 years ago

I could not even finish the shamelessly self righteous video. You have a right puking out your disgruntled, narcissistic and self righteous thoughts and I have a right to stop watching.

There will be a lot less wars if there are less these social justice warriors forcing everyone to agree with them.

What kind of people do you think terrorists are?

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[–] Jes' Sayin' (6349) 7 years ago

Oh I dunno. I think there's a difference between stating an opinion with words and stating one with bullets and bombs. Maybe your mileage varies, but you might ask some of those who have been blown up. See what they think.

Bottom line: the arts permit speaking Truth to Power when other means fails.

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[–] fc31 (5367) 7 years ago

That depends on what kind of options are available to these people. Terrorists don't usually have TV shows.

I think Hitler spoke with similar vigor (like that woman in the video) in his speeches about injustice, and once he had power he put his words into actions. But before he took the power those were just words.

I bet if the power is given to these people they won't be a lot better. Let's remember propaganda is the tool of dictators.

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[–] Jes' Sayin' (6349) 7 years ago

Big difference between "could happen" and "is happening". Your mileage may vary.

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[–] Keelai (34858) 7 years ago

"...propaganda is the tool of dictators."

Propaganda is used by all types of governments including democracy as well as in all political parties.

Russia uses a fairly new form of propaganda that Trump has adapted. Vanity Fair magazine ran a detailed article about it.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/03/is-trumps-chaos-a-move-from-the-kremlins-playbook

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[–] fc31 (5367) 7 years ago

To be honest it is not that big a surprise to me that social justice warriors thinking it is OK to use propaganda (Seth MacFarlane is doing it). But still, someone openly supporting use of propaganda is still quite disturbing to me.

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[–] filmtenk (765) 7 years ago

What do you call army recruitment?

https://youtu.be/XkKF4ZcqW14

Propaganda is prevalent throughout society.

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[–] fc31 (5367) 7 years ago

This is like saying there is nothing wrong with illicit drugs like cocaine, because it is a drug and drugs are everywhere, there are pharmacies selling all kinds of drugs and these drugs help people, so there is nothing wrong with cocaine.

Sometimes I underestimate how shameless people are.

Maybe the next thing you are going to say is there is nothing wrong with dictatorship, military is doing it and it worked quite well. Corporations are dictatorships, so dictatorship is everywhere, it must be OK too.

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[–] filmtenk (765) 7 years ago

It depends what the propagabda is trying to promote. The military promoting recruitment seems like an unworthy, wasteful and harmful (both to individual people and a national agenda) cause to me. Seth McFarlane promoting a socially progressive future seems like, well progress. But you never know how things will turn out, best intentions and the road to hell and all.

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[–] fc31 (5367) 7 years ago

Almost all dictators thought so. Hitler was a socialist too, he implemented genocide to fight social injustice as well. I bet he also thought he was doing the right thing and the end justified the means. To be honest once you started saying something like that, you are not any better.

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[–] Keelai (34858) 7 years ago

Hitler used a propaganda technique created by Joseph Goebbels called "The Big Lie". Repeat a lie often until the ignorant begins to believe it. Never apologize. Target a minority to become the enemy and create lies about them repeated often enough until they are hated.

Trump & his sycophants changed the name of "The Big Lie" to "Alternative Facts". Same difference.

BTW, Hitler was a tyrant who ran a totalitarian government, not a socialist. Fighting social injustice by doing something completely antisocial like genocide is doublethink.

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[–] fc31 (5367) 7 years ago

So you are implementing your version of "The Big Lie" right now? Because Trump is just saying things, what Seth MacFarlane created is propaganda.

To be honest just like I am tired of The Orville and stopped watching it, I am starting to get tired of this level of shamelessness.

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[–] Keelai (34858) 7 years ago

Seth MacFarlane is a creative person so I'm not sure if self-expression (which all creatives need and do) technically qualifies as propaganda. There's self-expression, political statement and propaganda. Which would Picasso's painting "Guernica" be?

Roddenberry's Star Trek was always progressive and about social equality. If such things are offensive, then definitely don't watch since The Orville IS Star Trek.

Trump is saying things that are not true. aka "alternate facts" aka lying.

Tyrion Lannister, "Most men would rather deny a hard truth then to face it."

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[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

Same here. I want to catch up on the orville but I'm kind of I doun't know bored of it already. I plan to watch it again but I think I'm 3 episodes behind. Right now the bad seem to outweigh the good. :(

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[–] McQualude (4231) 7 years ago

Fascism was a conservative movement.

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[–] fc31 (5367) 7 years ago

One thing I am very impressed about social justice warriors is the shamelessness. Your people would say black is white with a straight face.

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[–] McQualude (4231) 7 years ago

I'm not surprised you've been misinformed. Many people have been taught to only think in terms of left and right political spectrums as if people could be summarized so neatly. There are other aspects to our nature, more basic, such as conservatism (exclusiveness) and liberalism (inclusiveness), which were never part of the left/right spectrum. The Republican party was once far more liberal and the Democratic party far more conservative. It all seems very confusing until you understand there is a difference between politics and human nature. And if you are a frequent listener/viewer of right wing media then you've been further crippled with propaganda teaching you to think of anyone who doesn't agree with you as an enemy. The United States' Bill of Rights was a great victory over conservatism and which didn't recover until the early 20th century when it manifested as Fascism.

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[–] Keelai (34858) 7 years ago

"The Republican party was once far more liberal and the Democratic party far more conservative."

I cringe every time I hear a Republican brag that "the Republican Party is the party of Lincoln." In name only. The platforms changed drastically since 1860.

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[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

Your interpretation of conservatists being exclusive with liberalism being inclusive is misinformed. Conservatists are more concerned with financial responsability then picking up the mantle of paying special treatment for segments of society that use their race/sexuality/nationality as a crutch to gain special treatment from society. The fact that you view conversvatism as exclusive and liberalism as inclusive shows your don't understand the motives of either side.

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[–] McQualude (4231) 7 years ago

Actually my interpretation, or more correctly, my understanding, is enlightened. And I know the difference between political and social philosophy.

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[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

Its really funny how the term fascisism is being blamed on the right when its origins and activities are leftiest in general. I wonder if the term flipped during the McCarthy era or the sixties by the misuse of the term by the hippies.

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[–] McQualude (4231) 7 years ago

Like your buddy, you are conflating conservative and right wing. Life and people aren't that simple. I didn't say fascism was a right wing movement, did I? Pay closer attention, you might learn something.

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[–] crc32 (2584) 7 years ago

I'm not concerned with your gripes about left and right wing politics or even the terminology. Your free to interpret those terms how ever you want. Your entitled to your opinion.

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[–] filmtenk (765) 7 years ago

It amazes me how many young people have fallen in with conservative politics. George W Bush Made it impossible for me to vote Republican probably for the rest of my life. Then Trump came along and said “hold my beer George.”

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[–] fc31 (5367) 6 years ago

I apologize for my insolence.

My views changed significantly since when I first posted. The youtube video "Debunking A Century of War Lies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw0-ASR4sr8 showed majority of western media are propaganda machines, but I did not notice before.

So this show is nothing new. To be honest it is not even that shameless.

But still I would not enjoy watching propaganda.

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[–] Keelai (34858) 6 years ago

propaganda definition - information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

I interpret propaganda to mean misleading and mainly political.

ethics definition - moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity.

Would teaching ethics like "love thy neighbor" or "we should help those in need" be considered propaganda? Another question is what's your definition of a utopian society since The Orville and Star Trek were supposed to be about a utopian future.

Is a future without poverty, sickness, discrimination, war considered propaganda? And how would a society best achieve utopia?

I consider the show to be more about morality and ethics rather than propaganda.

Personally, I would rather live and work in the happy Orville's universe than the dark, depressing and dreary Star Trek Discovery.

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[–] fc31 (5367) 6 years ago

Propaganda in my view is to present your political opinions and views to mass audience in an unbalanced manner, intend to mislead or brainwash.

In "Debunking A Century of War Lies" they say during certain times media networks given quota that for every liberal they interview they must interview 2 conservatives, to mislead audience that conservative views were the majority opinion.

In this show it is done far more obviously, opposing views are presented as the losing ones.

I understand this show presented views identical to yours, so no doubt you are comfortable. But this show is intended for younger audience, so yeah, it is built to brainwash young generation. For me that is despicable.

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