MovieChat Forums > Beware the Slenderman (2018) Discussion > The US justice system is a joke

The US justice system is a joke

posted 8 years ago by lazarillo
22 replies | jump to latest

Years ago before most people alive today remember (I barely remember) there was a "bleeding heart liberal" era of criminal justice in the US where there was more emphasis on rehabilitation than incarceration. Then the pendulum swung the other way--and just kept going (even though crime has been falling for 20 years now). Now it's all about "throwing the book at 'em", "getting tough on crime", "sending a message" and "zero tolerance".

The problem is--and this isn't a "bleeding heart liberal" thing at all--you simply CANNOT "throw the book" at EVERYONE. The prison space is limited. The money to incarcerate people is limited. It is not that these girls didn't do something serious, but if you insist on incarcerating them for years in adult jails for a crime they committed when they were 12 and mentally ill, you have to let someone else OUT, who--chances are--is far more DANGEROUS.

It's always a bad thing when a case gets a lot of attention from the media and has "sexy" or "evil" element to it like Slenderman. There is a much less well-known case I saw recently where two girls barely older than this were kidnapped, beaten, raped, and forced to work as prostitutes by a vicious, scumbag pimp. The pimp got an 8-year slap-on-the-wrist and is probably walking the streets right now. There are people that have committed murder that did no time. There are dangerous sex offenders in every US neighborhood. Yet, there's a good chance they're going to "throw the book" here and "send a message" (apparently the message is you shouldn't have schizophrenic delusions of internet memes). It's really disgusting and shows what happens when an entire country starts thinking with their spleens instead of their brains.

"Let be be finale of seem/ The only emperor is the Emperor of Ice Cream"

[–] Woodgirl-661 8 years ago

Very well written. I totally agree with your points.

I couldn't believe what I heard and read when two courts see it best to trial these girls as adults. This is wrong and sad on so many levels.

[–] deathpanorama 8 years ago

In my opinion I think the prosecution will have a harder time getting them convicted in adult court, especially if they don't offer up an attempted second-degree murder option as well. I can't imagine many jurors being able to sentence two children who are mentally ill to 65 years in prison.

It is better to destroy than to create what is meaningless.

[–] crakatoot 8 years ago

What's the alternative.
i told you not to stop, now lets go - Apocalypse Now

[–] warm-523-122941 8 years ago

Can't see that she can be released until she acknowledges that Slender Man is a fantasy, that she was wrong to stab her friend and offers some assurances that she won't assault other people.

[–] Wax_Paper 8 years ago

Can't see that she can be released until she acknowledges that Slender Man is a fantasy, that she was wrong to stab her friend and offers some assurances that she won't assault other people.

That's the whole point, actually. That acknowledgement (and there's obviously much more to it than a simple acknowledgement) is something that would come from TREATMENT, not a punitive prison sentence. If she can get real psychiatric help with attentive medication prescription, then perhaps she can get better someday.

But 20+ years in prison (with the poor quality of psych care for inmates) won't be likely to help nearly as much. That's why sometimes WE need to acknowledge the reality of mental illness, even when the issues in question seem evil or taboo. When people can stop thinking with their gut and treat people as they (or their own children) would like to be treated, they might realize that offering someone a hand in kindness is more valuable than striking them with that hand.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (36781195) 8 years ago

Urgh fcking treatment! A cuddle and telling the therapist you're sorry? Fck that! If I was the VICTIMS family that wouldn't be good enough now KNOWING what these individuals are capable.
Millions of people have a mental illness, very very few of them kill esp not at such a young age. These individuals are too far gone

[–] Karma-For-You 8 years ago

I'm curious if people wanting light or no prison time (or even confinement in a mental health facility for a short period), would welcome these two loons into their homes?

[–] Wax_Paper 8 years ago

A cuddle and telling the therapist you're sorry? Fck that! If I was the VICTIMS family that wouldn't be good enough now KNOWING what these individuals are capable.

That's a false equivalency. And I think you know that "a cuddle and telling the therapist you're sorry" isn't the alternative to prison. Psychiatric hospitals for mental patients are no walk in the park, for one thing. For another, most people will be there for years as they try to get treatment for illnesses. Especially for attempted murder.

And yeah, if it was my daughter who these girls stabbed and tried to kill, if they were deemed mentally ill then I'd want them to get help. If they weren't mentally ill, it might be a different story, but I'm still not gonna sit here and say that locking people up and throwing away the key is a good policy for every violent crime.

You gotta remember that these girls were first-time offenders and might not have even completed puberty by the time they committed the crime. You know why we have statutory rape laws? Because a 12-year-old hasn't psychologically developed enough to make decisions like that for themselves yet, even if she has started menstruating. Now I don't wanna get off-topic with all this talk about statutory rape and menstruation, I'm only using it as an example of why we try people as children vs. adults in court; because you can't try humans all the same way when they aren't the same, behaviorally and psychologically.

And all that isn't even taking into account mental health issues, like schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is a textbook example of insanity, because you can't differentiate between what's real and what's not. But with psychiatric care and medication, you can, sometimes. There are a lot of "functioning schizophrenics" out there, because they got the help they needed to treat their illness.

These are all reasons that contribute to why it might not be the best idea to just blindly ruin more childrens' lives, even if those children tried to kill another one. I'm not saying this is absolutely what should be done in this circumstance, because I haven't been following these cases to the extent I'd feel comfortable making pronouncements like that. I'm just trying to get some of you guys to think about this stuff without letting your emotions guide you, because real justice isn't served by gut feelings and emotions.

[–] fede_4488 8 years ago

That acknowledgement is something that would come from TREATMENT, not a punitive prison sentence

Exactly! These people who want them to rot in jail don't understand mental illness. Morgan is not going to stop bieliving in Slenderman in prison. She needs help!

[–] Girls_Dont_Poop 8 years ago

If she gets out of prison when she's like 30, I doubt she will still believe in Slenderman

[–] warm-523-122941 8 years ago

There isn't much difference between a prison and a mental hospital. They essentially lock up dangerous people to keep them from committing more crimes. Plenty of people in prison are insane. They say if you stab someone 5 times you go to prison, but if you stab them 100 times you go to a mental hospital. Prisons might even be safer because the clientele may be more rational.

[–] Morgana0 8 years ago

I was thinking what you have written. There are so many dangerous people they let out on the streets to offend again, and these girls are obviously mentally ill. Trying them as adults will help no one. I ended up actually feeling sorry for the two.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Morgana0x

[–] lukekywalkrawakenz 8 years ago

You feel sorry for these miserable little cold blooded tweens!?!...I wonder if you have children, and if you do, how you'd feel about them if it were your child these two left hidden to bleed out slowly waiting for help that would never come while they walked to their evil entities mansion in the woods. These little monsters turned on each other the first chance they got, and spoke of their evil deeds with cold indifference.

I hope they get the MAXIMUM AMOUNT of time the law allows. They don't deserve to ever breathe free air again. If you wanna pity someone, pity Peyton who was Morgan's original friend-a true friend who was betrayed in order to strengthen her bond with Annisa. Morgan used her as a sacrificial lamb to feed her sick fantasy and give substance to her twisted little world. Both of those girls deserve the harshest sentence they can get...thank God their twisted pre-meditated plan didn't work!

Wake up, Time to DIE.

[–] cprattville 8 years ago

These girls are not mentally ill. Re watch the film all you who say they're ill.

Just listen to what the girls say. First off they knew they would be in trouble secondly they both blamed the other to lesson there involvement.

That's not mental illness, that's caculated behavior. Mentally ill don't possess that.

[–] cprattville 8 years ago

I'll go one further. Look at our infamous serial killers. The majority are not mentally ill nor do they take meds for mental illness. Yet they're not in prison continuing on with killing.

Again for all claiming these girls are mentally ill. Rewatch the video and pay special attention to the interrogation snippets. If they suffered from anything it would be social awkardness which is not a mental illness.

[–] rackyroo 8 years ago

Agreed.

Schizophrenics tend to have limited, more focused delusions with some form of connection. For example seeing or hearing aliens and the government conspiracies that may accompany them. Or say only having delusions of religious figures.
They don't see all of their favorite tv/movie characters at once and fight with them over whos turn it is to pick the tv show for the night.

As for the ODD dx. Read up on that. They supposedly had/have no behavioral issues at home or school. The whole definition of the disease is that your brain chemicals are so out of whack, that without medication to even things out, you can't control yourself when told to do something or presented with a rule by authority figures.
No matter where you are, your unbalanced brain absolutely will not heed to authority figures, especially the one seen as "most" in charge. I know from personal experience (raised a nephew with it and another younger one was just dx with it a year ago), that it takes at least a few explosive behavioral episodes per month before they even consider a dx of it. These episodes are always very physically violent. Morgan, from what was said in court about these kids not having a bad record (which, often that statement is inclusive of any and all places where a behavioral record is kept) the only violent outbreak was the stabbing of Peyton, which, according to e eryone else was because of delusional beliefs. An ODD outburst would not have been directed towards Peyton, by definition.

I'm being extremely clever up here and there's no1 around looking impressed! What's the point in having you all? DrWho

[–] cprattville 8 years ago

Not only that Morgan would have said Slenderman made her do it. Morgan also said they planned this starting in December.

Look at Berkowitz somebDoctors claimed he was manic and paranoid schizophrenic because he said the dog told him to do it yet he had one type of victim, taunted police and has never taken meds and hasn't killed anyone since incaceration.

[–] Karma-For-You 8 years ago

I think you should send the defense team your contact information and let them know that these two lovely girls can stay with you when they're released. I'm sure they would appreciate it. Would you consider doing that?

[–] MadRotaryOne_DDCgod 8 years ago

Not only that, but am I the only person that wonders why the hell their parents let them talk to the cops alone without a lawyer!?!?

Haven't they watched at least one crime movie where someone gets screwed over this way???

[–] rackyroo 8 years ago

I made a similar suggestion/point earlier (not sure if was in this thread or another one).

Of course each state, county, and even city will have their own laws/procedures re a situation like this, but, in most places they (the cops) don't need parental consent when the minor is questioned about a crime the minor committed (or legally allegedly committed). Parental consent is only required when being questioned about a crime in which they are a victim or witness of some kind. Being a minor, though, there should have been some kind of legal representative or guardian appointed by the courts. In family court, such as custody issue or when a parent/guardian is charged with things like neglect or child endangerment, any minor involved is appointed by whats called Guardian Ad Litem. I'm hoping something like that happened off screen. Especially since the minors signed the miranda rights, and, minors legally cannot sign any kind of binding, and/or legal documents without some kind of parental or legal rep like the Guardian Ad Litem. Otherwise the defense may have a case to get both confessions thrown out from evidence in the court proceedings.

I was summarily dismissed and reamed for even mentioning they needed some kind of representation BEFORE signing the miranda rights. Was basically told I was <not smart> because "you can't be represented before you sign your miranda rights because the miranda rights itself say "you have the right to an attorney...", meaning the courts can't appoint a representative before you sign your rights to allow that". I guess that person didn't understand it's all completely different when a minor is involved.

I'm being extremely clever up here and there's no1 around looking impressed! What's the point in having you all? DrWho

[–] MadRotaryOne_DDCgod 8 years ago

LOL

Well both You and I know that you can have a lawyer at a crime scene LONG before
you ever would be brought to a police station. We did see that one of the kids
start being read miranda rights. Becuase they had them both sign a form. What I
don't understand is that I was under the impression that a minor cannot legally sign
anything. Watching the documentary, we see that they are indeed being tried as adults,
and almost 2 years had past since the stabbing.
So I think the time has past on where a decent lawyer would have tried to have a
the case dismissed due to incorrect evidence gathering.

The very first thing those parents should have done was called the very best lawyer in
town the very SECOND they found out that their kids did the stabbing. It's the people
sitting in jail right now that thought they would look guilty by calling a lawyer before
they were officially arrested. It's not about guilt, it's about saying something stupid and
self incriminating.

I'd like a link to any thread or post of yours that someone attacked like you say.
Just to read how stupid these people are. They will bee the people rotting in
jail innocent becuase they thought they knew everything. LOL.

[–] BigBabyDirtFace 8 years ago

I'd like a link to any thread or post of yours that someone attacked like you say.
Just to read how stupid these people are. They will bee the people rotting in
jail innocent becuase they thought they knew everything. LOL.

Yeah, that would be me. I didn't "attack" Rackyroo but simply pointed out the fallacy of what she was claiming. Just because you wish counsel to be present before questioning a minor doesn't mean you can argue it as legal fact. Decide for yourself-

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5329376/board/flat/265454762?d=265519706#265519706