MovieChat Forums > Insecure (2016) Discussion > GERADERSOND, I CHALLENGE YOU!

GERADERSOND, I CHALLENGE YOU!


Before I begin, let me address your last question:

"you're not one of those Hotep n-words, are you?"

That didn't sound too positive or complementary. Sounds a lot like what a racist would say to a Black person. Maybe you intended to be funny? Is there something wrong with men who say "Hotep"?

Let's get to the meat of our disagreement and my challenge to you.

You: "I love the n-word". (A young Black woman saying such a thing is absurd, and you actually wrote it! That's just plain stupid).

Me: "I hate the n-word" (Why? Black people who use the n-word MOSTLY use it in the exact same way racist use it)

You: " Yes, I really want you to DO SOMETHING besides bloviate nonsense. Actually, I believe a random sample size of 1,000 is considered good enough to somewhat generalize the results in typical scientific research. I don't think you really about substantiated your claim OR satisfying me, you are just lazy and want to spew your opinions without having them challenged."

Me: Data on such a topic is hard to come by, so I came up with an alternative. Let's look at the ways in which they used the n-word in "Insecure". All the episodes are available on HBO. There should be close to a hundred utterances of the n-word during the season. I will search for the scripts, and if I can't find them, then I will watch this garbage of a show again and record the data. To confirm my results, YOU MUST DO THE SAME :). Let's come back here in a week or two with our results.

Data to be recorded:
Positive utterances of the n-word
Neutral utterances of the n-word
Negative utterances of the n-word
Context of the conversation will be determined before recording information.


Geradersond, let's BOTH do something and objectively see how people use the n-word using the show "Insecure" as our sample. You make the claim of laziness on my part. You say I have opinions and don't want to be challenged. Well you are wrong again. Let's do this.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!




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You challenge me? Oh please, we are two people who disagree on a word, I don't have time really to invest much more time in this conversation. So are you saying we should go through the episodes of "Insecure" and record the number of uses of the n-word? No need. I believe you that there may be a hundred instances. We just disagree on whether the context was positive or negative. Unless we can agree on that, the exercise is moot. I can give you an example off the top of my head.

Issa says to Molly, "You *beep* that n-word." This is neutral to positive because it explains why Molly was so down on Jared previously but now is in the kitchen cooking and has nothing but glowing things to say about his attributes. Issa thinks that Jared is good-looking and a good dude, and has been telling Molly how stupid she is for deregarding him.

Lawrence to Issa, "You *beep* that n-word?" This is neutral to negative because it is in the context of an argument in which they are discussing Issa's infidelity. I am not sure that Lawrence meant any disrespect towards Daniel personally, he just happens to be the dude that that Lawrence's girlfriend cheated with.

So, in the following clip, would you say that the reference to the n-word is positive, neutral, or negative? I would put it in that neutral category.
https://bossip.com/1441887/chris-brown-responds-to-aziz-ansari-calling-donald-trump-the-chris-brown-of-politics-video/


You may feel that a black woman loving the n-word is absurd and stupid. That's your opinion and you are welcomed to it, yet you are so entrenched in your feelings that you don't even stop to ask why I love that word.


As far as my question "you're not one of those Hotep n-words, are you?" You are right, that was mean-spirited. It was not meant to be positive or complementary. I did somewhat intend it to be funny because there is a scene regarding that in the show Insecure, when they are discussing dating apps. I must say that that in my personal experience, and those of some of my friends, the following statements are truth:

Hoteps use words like metaphysical even though they have no clue what it means.
They talk about things being 360 degrees because it sounds better than just saying circle.
They see conspiracies because that explains why they’re not successful and if you disagree with them you’re an agent.
They want Black power but only for Black hetero men.
They call their legions of fatherless litters’ nation building while blaming all of his four baby mamas for him not going to see his kids.
They know all about Egypt, but know nothing about West Africa, which is where their ancestors are from.
Their social media names contains Rah, Bey, Imhotep, or EL even though their legal last name is Johnson.
They believe White men are the devils, but his daughters are marriage material and are good for breeding.
They believe feminism is a tool to emasculate Black men; because equal pay for Black women, family planning and a life without domestic violence are bad things.
They tell you marriage to one woman is an Eurocentric institution and are pro polygamy, but are against polyandry.
They want a Black woman to submit, but go to work to support him too.
They tell you a Black woman should uplift her man while sacrificing her needs for the community aka him.
They tell you Black men have it harder than Black women while failing to see that Black women are victimized by both nonBlacks and Black men.
They share all kinds of cartoons, movies and memes depicting Black men as weak, light skinned Black women with natural hair lifting up Black men or dark skinned Black women as hood rats with children who are tools of the White man.
They call Black men who love, protect and uplift Black women simps.
They insist that no one outside of the Black community wants Black women.
They always point to Black women’s unmarried rate, but fail to discuss Black men having the highest unmarried rate.
They are OK when Black men marry nonblack women while Black women who marry out are bed wenches.
They tell you they love ALL Black women, but she has to be the right looking kind. She must be Black but not too Black. Only light skin and long curly hair need apply. The memes they share show it.
They will smoke a bowl with a bottle of Crown Royal in one hand and a 10-piece McNugget in the other (with barbecue sauce), but if you offer them a pork chop, they will boastfully tell you, “Nah, man… I don’t eat the swine.” They always stop eating pork. Except they call it “swine.”

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You said:
"You may feel that a black woman loving the n-word is absurd and stupid. That's your opinion and you are welcomed to it, yet you are so entrenched in your feelings that you don't even stop to ask why I love that word."

Me: you already explained your reasoning in another post.

Chris Brown post is negative, even though he is smiling. At first I thought it was neutral, but then he said "can't catch a break", which is negative, so his use of the n-word was negative. Unless he was being sarcastic. The clip is too short to really determine his intent. Context matters.

According to your definition, I am not a so called "hotep n-word". Did some hotep n-word do something to you, because you definitely have strong feelings about the subject?😣

As a representative of African American men, I apologize to you for any slights done to you by a so-called "hotep n-word", even if I don't fall into that category. Try to relax a little bit. 😃

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LET the data recording begin! Insecure Season 1, Episode 1
1) Song "We gon' be alright" by Kendrick Lamar plays to open the episode. N-word use in this instance is one of solidarity as Kendrick is telling someone that they share the same experience and outlook. n-word = "brother" neutral


2) Molly tells her Asian co-worker, Diane "N-words love Asians...." n-word = "black guys" neutral

3) Molly tells Issa, "Jesus is the n-word that gave me this broken..." n-word = "person" neutral

4) Molly tells Issa, "N-word, from who? Your middle school Crips?" Molly is annoyed because Issa has brought her to a club in the hood. It looks like it may have been the Savoy in Inglewood. n-word = "best friend" positive

5)Song in the background says "I love shootin' these n-words." We don't get to here the rest of the song but I am going to give this a negative based on the one line. n-word = derogatory name for people who appear to deserve to be shot," negative

6) Molly says to Issa, "It's bad enough that I got to deal with these triflin' ass n-words." I think Molly is using it in the negative in this instance, she is peeved about her dating history and prospects. Also the adjective of triflin' has a negative connotation. N-word = "no good, low life black men," negative

7) Molly says to Issa, "That's right, *beep* This is in the context of them having a discussion about Issa's motives for coming to the club, to see Daniel. n-word = " best friend, who I know so well and who is not fooling anyone," positive

So that's three neutrals, two negatives, and two positives which breaks down into approximately 43% neutral, 28.5% negative, and 28.5% positive use. Therefore, based on this small sample, MOST of the use of the n-word on this show (71.5%) is NOT negative.

Can't wait to hear your assessment!

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You: "I don't have time really to invest much more time in this conversation?"

Me: I'm a little confused here. Are we doing it or not, because later you say let the data recording begin? I shouldn't be surprised you can't make up your mind, you are a Black woman (that was a joke 😂)

1)Rappers are notorious for their laziness. They can use the n-word multiple times in the same sentence and each time have a different meaning. I listened to the song again, and there are instances of positive, negative and neutral meanings.

2) Negative. Knowing Molly, she doesn't think that "n-words love Asians" is a good thing.

3) Molly: You know, I'm not trying to be shady, but why does she deserve to get married, and I don't?
Issa: Girl, stop. Who says you don't deserve to be married?
Molly: Jesus, apparently! He the n-word that gave me this broken-ass pu__y!

That's negative. What is neutral about this? Molly is not happy about her married prospects and is blaming her broken coochie.

4)Molly: Issa, why are we in 1997 Inglewood?
Issa: Bitch, I don't know. I've never been here before. But I've heard really good things.
Molly: *beep* from who, your middle-school Crips?
Issa: Will you stop being all judgmental, okay?

That's negative. Being judgmental is a negative character trait and Issa caught the attitude from Molly.

5) Negative

6) Negative

7)Negative - You seem to think that every time Molly calls Issa the n-word, it's not insulting. Look at the context of the conversation. Molly wasn't happy about being used. Issa lied to her and Molly exposed her.

I told you in a previous post. Black people who use the n-word are so immune to derogatory language that they don't even realize when they are being insulted or are insulting someone else. You fall in that category.

6/7 negative. That's 85.7%.

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i don't know if I can do every episode for the season. I am supposed to be studying for my licensing exam. And I can tell just by this sample, that we are going to have to agree to disagree because we do not have inter-rater reliability. If we can't both look at a scene and agree which category it belongs in, our data collecting is a moot point. You are being very unreasonable. Did you read the scripts or look at the episode?

"I shouldn't be surprised you can't make up your mind, you are a Black woman." Watch out now, you are bordering on hotepishness.

Oh, so you know Molly now? Molly was upset with Isaa but that doesn't change her love for her. I have rarely been called the n-word but I usually take it a badge of belongings. I grew up middle class, many of my friends did not. The word lets me know that we are on the same wavelength despite our different backgrounds. I think it is the same for Molly (hood rat) and Issa (privileged Windsor Hills girl). It says despite our different backgrounds, we both come from a history of slavery and let's not let superficial stuff like class differences make us forget that.

So what it comes down to is respect for one another. Although I disagree with your opinion, I respect your choice to have that opinion and respect you as a human being, even though I think you are ABSOLUTELY WRONG. That being said, it looks like both of us are firmly entrenched in our opinion.

OMG! Hotep n-words are the worst! you think you have found a intellectual, black man who is conscious but it turns out to be a hoax. Let me tell you two examples.

ME-met this guy at a friend's party. We connected because he was really the only person I could talk to at the party that didn't involve the topics of sex and what else they were talking about. At a later time, he starts talking to me about how he is not of this world and one of ancient beings, etc. Smoked copious amounts of marijuana and drank like a fish, yet no pork for him. Was abusively physical with me on a couple of occasions, always trying to get me to some submissive point. Defended Cosby to the utmost. Talked about how Caribbean and Mexican women were submissive like women should be and spoke of his friends who had married them one. Found out much later that he was living with his girlfriend of 25 years and she was footing the bills. He now lives with his mother because said gf finally kicked him out. I realized AFTER our encounter that he was possibly hotep. He had many of the characteristics. I didn't know what hotep was at that point.

My friend -Met this dude who owned a martial arts studio in Inglewood, CA. Talked very pro-black and pro-community. Turns out that he had several baby mamas in the community. He impregnated my friend but she got an abortion. I am pretty sure this brother was at the one of the early stages of hotep.

http://neguswhoread.com/five-kinds-hotep/

I have watched some videos of Tommy Sotomayor, Dr. Umar Johnson, and others. When Molly and Issa discussed "hotep n-words," I instantly knew to whom they were referring.

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Can't stand Sotomayor or Umar Johnson (who I thought was a fraud a long time ago.) Seems like we grew up in similar situations, but I just never liked the n-word, so we can agree to disagree.

I can relate to your experiences from talking with friends and relatives, but I am not like them at all. Happily married, never cheated, for 23 years. It's rough out there for Black women, so you are preaching to the choir. I have two sister in-laws and many cousins who can't find someone decent. My so-called "hotep" brother blames the women, although he will turn 45 in two weeks and still wants to play. Dude is severely overweight, but claims he attracts women like flies to honey. I worry for my daughter.

If I offended you in any way, I am sorry. I am very passionate about Black people and sometimes I say things or write things that comes off as disrespectful. I am trying to control it.

I should have majored in psychology, which is my passion, instead of engineering in college. I read your profile in http://wellbeingresearch.blogspot.com/p/about.html. Dr. Harrell seems like a very nice lady. Your work sounds interesting. Send me some information when you have some time, I would like to read it. [email protected]

Let's stop this trivial debate. Go study girl, that licensing exam isn't going to be easy! 😀

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That's soooo funny, my mother wanted me to major in engineering. My father was a civil engineer. Sometimes, I wish I had, less schooling, but I wonder if I would have been happy in that profession. What type of engineer are you? What sign are you? I am a Capricorn, I just recently had a birthday.

Yes, many "hotep" men cherry-pick certain women as bad examples. Maybe your brother has a smooth tongue (in more ways than one) or other attributes that attract the women to him? You would be surprised what some women are attracted to. Like Molly, I find that my friends, who grew up in the "hood" and have obtained some education, have these very rigid standards of men they will consider as mates. Ridiculous things! Sometimes superficial things!

You didn't offend me, you just came off as sanctimonious and I think that that's one issue in the black community. We are not monolithic and must allow for differences WITHIN our community -homo/hetero, religious/nonreligious, n-word loving.non n-word loving. I will never understand your love for the show Atlanta but we still have a common purpose and love for black people. That is what unites us.

Dr. Harrell was my faculty chair. I was in her research lab. Technically, I should not be on her blog site anymore, as I have graduated. You can look at my LinkedIn profile, Pretty soon you should be able to find my dissertation. It has just been published but I cannot locate it on gradworks. INVESTIGATION OF THE MULTIDIMENSIONAL WELL-BEING ASSESSMENT (MWA) IN A SAMPLE OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS.
http://gradworks.proquest.com/browse/PEPPERDINE_UNIVERSITY/Psychology.html


I will be studying for the licensure exam for months. I am sick of studying, I have been studying for a long time but will get back to it soon. FML

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here is pdf, hope link works


http://upload.etdadmin.com/etdadmin/files/42/481243_pdf_523909_FA029F34-DE86-11E6-BDDE-82724D662D30.pdf

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pdf didn't work. Proquest Site is asking for a user name and password.

First name is Troy, sign is Virgo and engineering discipline is electrical. I found engineering boring and went into teaching - High School. After a few years, I went back into the tech world, and that's where I am at now.

You are one of many that has said the same thing about me (sanctimonious). Maybe I should look that up? 😁

http://www.slideshare.net/GeraAnderson/a-preliminary-psychometric-investigation-of-the-multidimensionalwellbeing-assessment-2

I will check this out. I am such a nerd sometimes. I read dissertations for enjoyment 😃

I sent you a Linkedin invite.

Take care.

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