MovieChat Forums > Mars (2016) Discussion > Terraforming mars - what a joke

Terraforming mars - what a joke

posted 8 years ago by RoaringFourties
22 replies | jump to latest

This show, like many others, envisions a terraformed mars that will allow us to walk on it. Especially Robert Zubrin, President of the Mars Society, is absolutely adamant about that. But all experts agree, the reason Mars has no atmosphere ist because it lost it's magnetic field and thus its Van Allen belt.

Even it we could get all that frozen CO2 to gas out and convert it to something breathable, it would just get carried off into space by the same solar winds that carried off its original atmosphere.

Oh, and radiation would never allow us to live there due to the lack of a Van Allen belt. Let's face it, it would be cheaper and easier to make Chernobyl liveable again!

[–] curzon_dax 8 years ago

You assume you can't remagnetize a planet.

[–] RoaringFourties 8 years ago

Yeah, you got that right. Can't keep anything from you, can I? :-)

[–] tonyismad 8 years ago

Well, the did restart the Earth's magnetic field in The Core...

JUST KIDDING!!!

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[–] Emily-Yankee-619-122967 8 years ago

You just have to rub a refrigerator magnet on the poles right?

;-)

[–] creatorof2002 8 years ago

This is a monstrously huge "if" but even if you could do EVERYTHING needed to terraform there is one thing that cannot be done and that is to increase Mars GRAVITY. We evolved for one G which is Earth's gravity. We evolved for FOUR POINT FIVE BILLION YEARS to live in an environment with Earth gravity. The human body has some ability to adapt and adjust to small changes. For example in Avatar the world of Pandora had 80 percent Earth gravity. I think the human body could adjust to that even if it is not ideal BUT Mars has barely more than one third Earth gravity. A person who weighs 200 pounds on Earth would weigh only 76 pounds on Mars. That is NOT enough gravity to keep a human body healthy. It is much better than no gravity at all but after several years of living there there would be health problems caused just by the lower gravity even if you were fully protected from anything else harmful like radiation.

Also, terraforming Mars would be a multitrillion dollar effort, and not just a few trillion but probably a few dozen trillion. Who the hell has the %$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (money) to pay for that even if it is in theory possible? Who the hell is willing to pay more taxes? Maybe take more money out of the school system? Maybe take it out of social security?

The third world countries in Africa and South America could easily fund that project right?

[–] RoaringFourties 8 years ago

I believe this would be particularly true for any human born on Mars. I am not sure if "usable" bones would even form under the low gravity there.

[–] tonyismad 8 years ago

You just have to rub a refrigerator magnet on the poles right?

No. You need something bigger. Like a balloon.

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[–] creatorof2002 8 years ago

There is a tragic movie called THE SPACE BETWEEN US about a young man born on Mars who returns to Earth and the higher gravity is more than his health can handle.

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 6 years ago

Duh! On Earth he would experience three times the gravity. That would NOT work health wise.

BTW the movie is rated a mediocre 6.4 on IMDB.

😎

[–] fredgarv79 8 years ago

there will be solutions, there are always solutions that we can't even think about today. it might take a thousand years, but we can do it. think of all the past times people said you can't do that, you can't drive a car over 60mph your brain will explode. could people a few hundred years ago imagine cell phones and computers? we will find a way to terraform mars and figure out the radiation problem, it will just take a lot of time and a lot of money. not realistic like zubrin thinks of anytime soon but we could still go there and establish colonies with domes, inside volcanic tubes, protected from radiation and be able to go outside with radiation proof suits etc.

who would have thought even 70 years ago that today we could launch spacecraft that could fly to an asteroid, and actually move it, or grab it? or fly to a comet and circle around it as it flies through space, and even land on it?

[–] RoaringFourties 8 years ago

Like you say: money. I can't see a business model for a domed comunity on mars. I think, at best, we'll have scientific outposts there. It will be much cheaper to fix whatever we screwed up down here on Earth rather than actually settle Mars in significant numbers.

[–] creatorof2002 8 years ago

There really is NOTHING we can do about the fact that Mars has barely more than one third Earth gravity. The human body evolved for FOUR POINT FIVE BILLION YEARS for EARTH GRAVITY. A life in a much lower gravity environment is monstrously bad for the human body. How will they "terraform" more GRAVITY. Plus get this, in order for a planet to hang on to an atmosphere it has to have close to Earth gravity, if you magically put Earth's atmosphere there it would float off into space.

And its MUCH FARTHER FROM THE SUN. Even if you made it technically inhabitable with breathable air its greater distance from the sun would make it COLD AS HELL. Right now you can live in Antarctica or Siberia without a space suit as long as you dress warmly but a permanent settlement there would SUCK.

In order to terraform a planet you need gravity closer to Earth. It is a real shame Mars is not a few thousand miles wider.

[–] nomen_meltdown 8 years ago

The gravity and radiation problems, yes, would need a fix for long-term habitability. But as for the sun stripping away atmosphere, I've read about that and it took a long time-- millions of years at least, IIRC-- the first time around. So any solution that could set up sufficient atmosphere could be used to replenish it over time. The one I've heard posited is crashing comets into the planet to release their water and gasses, and if you could do that in the first place, you could bring in more later to 'top off' whatever is slowly lost to the solar wind.

I'm an island- peopled by bards, scientists, judges, soldiers, artists, scholars & warrior-poets.

[–] creatorof2002 8 years ago

You could in theory have a "class M" planet as they say in Star Trek with fresh air, plenty of food and water, a "paradise" and if it has one third Earth gravity the health of the colonists would deteriorate over a few years. The human body does not last long in very low gravity environments. One year of zero G ruins the health of astronauts. A third of a G is much less damaging than that but I suspect 10 or 12 years of that would destroy the health of a colonist.

[–] nomen_meltdown 8 years ago

Zero-G ruins the health of astronauts because our bodies develop in Earth's gravity, so leaving it constitutes a hostile envorinment. Like how your health degrades at extremely high altitudes. But people who live at high altitudes, like those on the Tibetan plateau, become adapted to that and don't suffer the same ill effects.

The first generation of colonists on a planet with lower gravity than Earth's would have problems, certainly. But those born there, living in it from birth, would begin to adapt. Their bodies' systems would be shaped by it, within limits, and then those people would likely find Earth gravity problematic.

I'm an island- peopled by bards, scientists, judges, soldiers, artists, scholars & warrior-poets.

[–] creatorof2002 8 years ago

1. Would the first generation of colonists be willing to sacrifice their own health for a future they would never live to see?

2. Evolution is VERY gradual, maybe several thousand years later their descendants would evolve for the lower gravity but their children and grandchildren would still be evolved for Earth gravity and might not even develop properly in childhood.

[–] Janine-The-Barefoot 8 years ago

Hi RF!

Just a thought here... but aren't WE (on THIS planet) living proof that we can indeed change/terraform the entire planet? Not trying to be difficult but let's face it, we HAVE changed the Earth, on purpose or not. So, given what we know (or at least what some of us will admit to knowing) it seems entirely reasonable to me that not only could we go to Mars to terraform it; but ultimately we're going to have to. So since necessity is the "Mother of Invention" and the progress we've made in the last 10 years working with magnetics in a variety of different ways, I say... let's believe in the ability of mankind to produce the creative and curious minds required to solve the problems of the current era. This country alone has a history of rising to a challenge and overcoming tremendous odds when the right people with the right motivation get involved. But what do I know. I still think that both Hubble and the International Space Station are magnificent achievements.

But that's just MY opinion and I'm truly not trying to start a war. I honestly don't want my last days on this site I
love so much... spent fighting with others who do too.

  

"You told me I had nothing. But you were wrong. I have love, I have hope and I have faith."

[–] RoaringFourties 8 years ago

Your very assumption that we are causing the current warming of the climate on earth rather than just adding to it is arrogant. Plus, the current warming of the climate is likely to cause an ice age, not a long term period of warmer temps on earth. So, there's that.

In addition, to warm up Mars would require us to do whole hell of a alot more than just the couple of degrees we have managed to assist with on earth after a 150 YEARS with BILLIONS of people helping out.

Any idea that we could significantly alter the biosphere of Mars is just laughable.

And if we are not willing to pay to "save" earth, why would anyone pay to "terraform" Mars? That's gotta cost a bazillion times as much money?

Sorry.

[–] Janine-The-Barefoot 8 years ago

I'm sorry you feel so offended RF. That was certainly not my intention and, if you look, you'll see that I never mentioned global warming in my post at all. But as it is clear that you feel attacked somehow by my post (in which I tried to focus on the accomplishments of mankind as a hopeful look into the future) please believe me when I say it was never my intention to argue with you or dismiss your knowledge of the subject. I am genuinely sorry that what I thought was simply the presentation of how I see things led you to conclude that it was somehow an attack on what you believe. Honestly, it was not. It was just a different opinion than yours.

I hope you will accept my apology in the spirit in which it is intended and that my assurance that I will post nothing more than this apology on this board again, as proof that I REALLY did not mean for you to think I was trying to start a fight or challenge your beliefs in any way whatsoever.

It is clear you have your own beliefs and data with which to support them. I offer no challenge nor meant any offense and am wholeheartedly sorry that you saw it as such.

Thank you for your response. Forgive me for the one that made you feel yours was necessary and know that I will henceforth withdraw from a board on which I clearly have no place. I only hope you will allow me to depart in peace with my apology, if not accepted, at least understood.

Forgive me & farewell.

"You told me I had nothing. But you were wrong. I have love, I have hope and I have faith."

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 6 years ago

AMEN! Well said, RF!

😎

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 6 years ago

Yeah, pretty much.

😎

[–] chefao (456) 6 years ago

It's true what you say about the magnetic field being the biggest obstacle but who's to say we can't come up with some sort of solution to that eventually? Too bad the show doesn't address it.