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The Post Rapture Survival Guide 1 of 2

posted 8 years ago by JC_gives_u_hope
33 replies | jump to latest

The purpose of this manual is twofold:

First of all, it is to warn those who receive this manual prior to the rapture of the events that will take place in the last days as foretold in the Bible. Based on what the Bible has to say about future events, nobody in their right mind would want live on earth after the rapture. Hopefully, many will read, believe, seek God, repent and be saved. Salvation is very simple, so simple to attain, in fact, that most people cannot accept its simplicity; thereby reject it completely. However, it is complex because it is life-changing and based on that which we cannot see; it is based on faith. Simple, because Jesus does all the work. If you want to be saved and have eternal life, simply pray in belief and humility to Lord Jesus:

"Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner and ask you to forgive me of my sins and prepare for me a new heart. I surrender my life to you."

Secondly, to those left behind after the rapture, this is indeed a survival manual. You still have an opportunity to repent and have eternal life. The same prayer of salvation is applicable to you; the only difference is that you will spend a little time experiencing a taste of hell while you remain on earth.

Let me be really frank with you. If you are reading this manual and the rapture has already occurred, then you probably are not going to physically survive; you most likely will die sometime in the next few years. This manual is about the survival of your soul. You are going to go through terrible suffering. The only question that remains is whether you will go to Heaven or go to hell when you die.

Definition: Rapture--This is the event that will occur when Jesus calls His followers (both gentile and Jewish believers) with a trumpet blast, and in the "twinkling of an eye" they will be removed from the earth and transported to be with Jesus in the heavens.

Biblical Foundation for the Rapture

"Take notice, I am telling you a secret. We shall not all die but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet call. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall all be changed" (I Corinthians 15:51-52).

"For with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God, the Lord Himself will descend from Heaven, and those who died in Christ will rise first. Afterward we, the living who remain, will be caught up along with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall forever be with the Lord" (I Thessalonians 4:16-17).

"...For I am going away to prepare a place for you. And when I have gone and have prepared a place for you, I will come again and take you to Myself so that where I am, you also will be" (John 14:2-3).

Events and Circumstances Prior to the Rapture

At the time that this manual was being written, and for the remainder of the time left in this age, the one word that describes the condition of the world is change. All of this change is being accomplished through the work of Satan, as he cannot tolerate anything that originated from God's creation. Originally, the Bible tells us that when God created the world He declared that it was "good." That means that it was perfect and no changes were necessary. Included in His creation were standards to live by that He gave to Adam and Eve. These standards covered everything from how to live in our private lives, to proper domestic relationships, to principles for governing a community. Satan seeks to change everything that God has created and established, thus he has used his power and influence in the world to make subtle deviations to God's original plan. Satan's goal is to establish a world order headed by his protege (the world dictator known in the Bible as the Beast and anti-christ) who will spend his time and effort changing everything to be in opposition to God's will as expressed in the Bible. This is predicted in the Bible in the book of Daniel: "and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law."

POLITICAL

In today's political environment there is no effective leadership in the world. Every nation lacks strong and competent leaders able to deal with the problems at home and abroad. The United States, which has been the world leader for the last 50 years, has steadily lost its influence among other nations because of political leaders in the United States who have no moral center to direct their decision making process. However, this distrust and dislike of government and government leaders is not just an American phenomenon but is a common theme in Europe, South America, Asia and the entire world. Because of this leadership vacuum in the world, there is now an opportunity for a man to arise who is very charismatic, strong, and attractive to peoples of all nations. Based on the prophecies in the Bible such a man will arise, and he will be successful in uniting the various nations to rule as a dictator.

The move to unite the world under one government has been active since the early 1950's, and in recent years this has become more of a reality as many nations have given up their sovereignty to the United Nations during armed intervention of conflicts (eg. Kuwait, Somalia, Bosnia). In these conflicts, the nations of the world contributed manpower and machinery to be used under the flag of the United Nations. The United States of America surrendered its sovereignty in these situations to much weaker nations by allowing its military to be controlled by these nations. In addition to these military actions the nations of the world also agreed to control trade and labor practices with international treaties such as NAFTA and GATT.

There is no dominant nation to provide leadership to the world, thus the stage is set for a man to arise out of the masses to unite the world as dictator.

SOCIAL

The foundational building block of society, that element which has always been responsible for social order and peace, is the family, and it has been virtually destroyed. The family is to be a man, his wife and their children. The man provides for the wife and children, the wife nurtures and educates the children, and the children obey their parents. In a community of families, adults hold the other adults and children accountable for their actions. The family is based on marriage.

Marriage is an institution of God and therefore hated by Satan. The devil has worked very hard, primarily through communications media such as TV, movies, news journalists, and entertainment in general to convince women that marriage is detrimental to their freedom and fulfillment in life. Satan has deceived women into believing that they have the same sexual desire as men and that all differences are the result of culture. Satan has worked hard to divide men and women and have them at war with one another, and because of this, the violence between men and women has dramatically increased.

Civil war has been a constant theme of this age and unrest will continue into the end times: man vs. women, black vs. white, Muslim vs. Jew, Catholic vs. Protestant, Muslim vs. Christian, one Muslim faction vs. another Muslim faction, one black African tribe vs. another black African tribe, nation vs. nation, people vs. people. Whatever divides people into different groups, Satan uses to inspire hate, strife and violence.

Homosexuality and all sorts of perverse behavior are accepted as normal. The world dictator (anti-christ) himself will not have the normal sexual attraction to women and may be asexual. Many theologians believe that he will probably be openly homosexual as indicated in the Bible in the book of Daniel 11:37: "and he will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women". And therefore, after the rapture, more than likely marriage will be discouraged or illegal, and homosexual and lesbian relationships highly encouraged.

ECONOMIC

On the economic scene, the trend is toward poverty for the masses with wealth concentrated into the hands of very few people. These controllers of the wealth will be the kings of commerce and banking and also be the power behind politics of the world. Small businesses are merged into larger companies and the larger companies merge with themselves to increase profits. The result is huge multi-national companies that have no allegiance to any community, state, nation or people, whose only allegiance is to increased profits for management and shareholders. The result is workers who are little more than peasants and presidents of companies who are more and more like kings. It will be these "kings" who usher in the world dictator to protect their wealth and power. Expect all commerce, buying and selling, to be controlled by a mark on the right hand or forehead of every person who wants to participate in the economy. Only those people with the mark will be able to buy and sell, but the consequences of taking the mark is eternal damnation (Rev 14:9-11).

Therefore don't take that mark. You will have a very difficult time surviving, and probably won't, but you will save your soul. Again, don't take the mark on your right hand or forehead.

GEOPHYSICAL

In the gospel of Matthew, chapter 24, Jesus spoke to his disciples and indicated to them that one of the signs of the time of the end of the world would be, "...as it were in the days of Noah so will the coming of the son of man be." We read in Genesis that in the days of Noah "the earth was filled with violence.". This speaks not only of the violence that men inflict on one another--war, civil wars, rape, brutality, murder, abortion, and other indiscriminate, random acts of violence, but the earth itself is also filled with violence. We see increasing earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, drought, lightning storms and unusual atmospheric phenomena. While all of these have existed in the past, over the last 50 years, the number and intensity of these conditions and the property damage associated with these natural catastrophes has increased. As the level of violence that the human species has inflicted on one another has increased, so has the violent reaction of the earth increased.

Signs of the Times

When Jesus' disciples asked Him about the signs that would be a precursor to His coming and the end of the age His response, recorded in Matthew 24, was:

*Wars and rumors of wars
*Nation will rise against nation. It is very interesting to note that the Greek word that is translated as nation is "ethos" which deals with ethnic background and race. Most of the wars and conflicts are wars among ethnic groups and tribes.
*Kingdom will rise against kingdom
*Famines
*Earthquakes are like the early pangs of childbirth. As the time grows nearer and nearer to His coming, the frequency and intensity of these five signs will increase.
*The followers of Jesus will be handed over to be persecuted and killed. This is happening with more frequency in the Muslim controlled nations in the Middle East, and in Africa where Black Muslims are enslaving Black Christians.
*Christians will be hated by all nations on account of His name. In many parts of the world, Christians are jailed and killed for their beliefs; in the United States those who are Christians are hated by the media and liberals, and are known by the code words "religious right."
*Many will fall away...that is, many who claimed to be Christians will recant their faith, and betray and hate Christians.
*Many false prophets will arise and deceive many.
*Due to excessive lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold.

The Rapture

This is an event that will not be hidden. The concept of the rapture has already been made known to the masses. It will be treated with ridicule, contempt and mockery by the world's media, but God will see to it that it will be highly publicized before it occurs just so that those left behind might still come to their senses. It will occur in the open, and everybody left behind will know someone who was raptured.

It will happen suddenly, unexpectedly, and lightning fast--"in the twinkling of an eye," as the Bible puts it. And there will be evidence all over the world that this event occurred. Some national leaders will disappear, celebrities in entertainment and professional sports will disappear, entire families will disappear, disbelieving spouses will see their mates vanish, children will disappear. Bank accounts, homes, cars, businesses and relationships will be left behind. The problem for the world's leaders will be trying to convince people that it didn't happen. Because if the world's leaders admit that it did happen then, logically, everything Christians preached about Jesus Christ being the Son of God, the Savior, the Messiah, the Prince of Peace, the Lord of Lords and King of Kings and everything that Jesus preached and taught must be true. And if all of this is true, then the only logical response would be to fall on one's knees before God in confession and repentance and absolute submission to every word of God (as revealed in the Bible). But all of this is diametrically opposed to the way of the world, which preaches freedom from the constraints of God's word, perverse sex, materialism and the devaluation of human life. So, although the rapture will shock everybody and will be covered in the media and everybody left will be aware of someone who is gone, the leaders of the world will begin their great deception, trying to convince the population left behind that there was no rapture.

How is this going to be accomplished? Well, pretty easily because most of the people left behind are already in a state of deception. They have been deceived into believing that Jesus is not the Messiah; they have been deceived into believing that the word of God is not true; they have been deceived into living a lifestyle that only brings constant pain and suffering instead of the freedom and paradise that God offers. The world's leaders will declare that there was no rapture, that a mass hysteria took place, and the news media will follow the party line. Then to make things easier, shortly after the rapture, one-fourth of the world's population will be decimated due to wars, famine and plague. Those who were raptured will be counted among the dead.

After the Rapture

Shortly after the rapture, a seven-year period known in the Bible as the Great Tribulation will take place. It will begin with the signing of a peace agreement between Israel and her enemies and it will end with the physical return of Jesus Christ to set up His kingdom on earth. In between, will be seven years of terror for those on earth. The following events and trends will take place in that seven-year period:

*A man will arise who will achieve victory after victory both in politics and in war(Rev 13:7). This man, who should be easily identified by his rapid rise and popularity, is your the anti-christ. Many people believe that this person must be Jewish. That is, in order for Jews to accept him as Messiah, only a Jew will suffice. This is not necessarily the case. The Bible does not specify that he is a Jew, and it does not specify nationality. Only God-fearing Jews will require a Jewish Messiah. The liberal, ungodly Jews who dominate Israel will be as lost when it comes to Biblical truth as the Gentiles of the world and will be deceived by his charisma, and more than likely, the desires of the world's media. Currently the new nickname for the United States is the Great Satan. This may have some significance.
*Violence will increase in all parts of the world, both nation against nation (ethnic wars) and domestically. Men will indiscriminately slay one another as peace will be removed from the earth (Rev 6:3-4).
*There will be extreme inflation, poverty, and lack of food as one day's wages will buy enough food for one day for one person (Rev 6:5-6).
*In a very short period of time, one-quarter of the earth's population will be killed due to wars, famine, pestilence and wild beasts. These wild beasts could very well be viruses, bacteria and other microbes. In late 1995, Time magazine ran a cover story on the rise of new infections and called microbes "malevolent little beasts" (Rev 6:7-8).
*Many people will experience a religious conversion and become followers of Jesus Christ and most of these people will be hunted down and killed (Dan 7:21).
*There will be a great earthquake, the sun will be blackened, the moon will turn red and all mountains and islands (which are underwater mountains) will be moved (Joel 2:30-32).
*There will be a brief period of calm on the earth following this great earthquake which will give those who survive a false sense of security.
*One-third of the earth, one-third of all of trees and all the green grass will be burned up due to a comet or meteor that hits the earth (Rev 8:7).
*A meteor will hit the earth causing the sea to become like blood, killing one-third of all sea creatures and destroying one-third of all shipping (Rev 8:8-9).
A "star" named Wormwood will fall from the sky and poison one-third of all fresh water killing many people (Rev 8:10-11).
*The sun, moon and stars will be darkened by one-third. The day and night will be reduced by one-third. There is some speculation that this means the rotation of the earth will be changed so that a day lasts only 16 hours instead of 24 hours (Rev 8:12).
*Fearsome locust-like beings will be released from underground who only attack people who are not followers of Jesus Christ. These attacks will be very painful but last only 5 months (Rev 9:1-11).
*An army of 200 million horse-like creatures will kill one-third of mankind (Rev 9:13-19).
*Two men (known as witnesses, see item 7 below) of Jewish origin will preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ for 3 1/2 years and be killed at the midpoint of the 7 year tribulation. These two will be responsible for a 3 1/2 year world-wide drought and will be killed by the anti-christ (also known as the beast in the Bible).
*People will be required to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead in order to buy and sell. Those who receive this mark will develop a loathsome and malignant sore on their bodies within a short period of time (Rev 13:13-18).
*The oceans will chemically change and become like the blood of a dead man (congealed?) and everything in the sea will die (Rev 16:3).
*The fresh waters will become like blood (Rev 16:4-7).
*The sun will scorch the people on earth with fierce heat (Rev 16:8-9).
*The throne of the anti-christ and his kingdom will become darkened (Rev 16:10-11).
*The Euphrates river will dry up allowing the kings of the east to march westward (Rev 16:12).
*The kings of the world will gather their armies together to battle God at Armageddon. There will be an earthquake so great that all of the mountains and islands will disappear. There will be hailstones weighing close to 100 pounds that will crush the armies that have gathered (Rev 16:17-22).
*Shortly after this great earthquake, Jesus Christ will return with His army to claim the earth as His possession (Zech 14:3-5).

After Rapture Survival Guide from: https://www.raptureready.com/rr-survival-guide.html

[–] HelloMyNameIsMrBurns 8 years ago

I'm amazed grinding was a thing 2,000 years ago. I thought that was a recent colloquial term.

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

Hello Mr Burns:

Can you please state your religion? Catholic, JW, Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Assembly of God, Church of Christ?

Perhaps, I should have said "Please, for all Christians that don't believe in the Rapture." This post was intended towards believers in Christ. However, thanks for taking the time to read my post but you just wouldn't understand "Post Rapture." No offense towards you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbe7OruLk8I - Chris Tomlin -

[–] fsrsk2 8 years ago

Yes because of course everyone who isn't a Christian is automatically an idiot.

eye roll*

Sometimes the appropriate response to reality is to go insane. -Phillip Dick

[–] watchman19 8 years ago

I disagree with the Rapture doctrine.

The verses you quote are prophecies of the near future for the audience at the time, in particular the destruction of Jerusalem by Roman forces that occurred in A.D. 70. Those prophesies are our history.

The actual second coming of Christ is described as a brief event. "In a moment. In the twinkling of an eye. Like a thief in the night." The earth will be completely destroyed in the judgment. There will be nothing to be "left behind" on. The one taken and the other left describes how some were killed or taken into slavery by Roman forces while others were spared.

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

It is obvious that you didn't read the Post Rapture Survival Guide, in the link that I provided.

I agree with you "about the earth will be completely destroyed" the only difference in our beliefs:

Rapture comes first,
7 years of torture and death for anyone getting saved after the Rapture, is second,
Jesus second coming, to destroy evil, putting the Devil in chains, and every knee will bow and proclaim that Jesus is Lord, is third,
The earth will be completely destroyed, after all the above has happen, is last.

Thanks for sharing your point-of-view.

Have a blessed day.

https://www.raptureready.com/rr-survival-guide.html - link to Post Rapture Survival Guide
speaks of all things that should happen before the earth is completely destroyed.

[–] FilmFlaneur 8 years ago

As recommended by Harold Camping.

You are really mentally ill!
You _must_ be homosexual. Melanie000

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

Dear FilmFlaneur:

Yes, I heard about him but I didn't know his name. I looked him up and he said it would be in 2011. Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_end_times_prediction

I believe, it would be closer to the year 2058. Years ago, my distant family used to discuss it and my mom (a Jehovah Witness) said she believed that my children would see it. Presently, I am 56 years old and my children are 38, 24, and 22 years old. If my calculations are correct, my youngest children would be in their late fifties. From what I read from the Post Rapture Survival Guide: pretty scary events.

Your signature statement (mentally-ill): I refer to as demon-possessed. We went to Fort Worth, Texas for a visit and we stopped at a Grandy's (on Highway 80, near Camp Bowie) for a late lunch with some relatives. While we were eating, this thin elderly-looking woman, was walking around our table, weird-like. Later, I went to the ladies room and that woman followed me. I started to wash my hands and she was looking at me in a mad or crazy way. I dried my hands and left in a hurry. She made sigh noises and sounded like she was kicking the trash can. Most people don't scare me but demon-possessed people do scare me because you don't know what they are liable to do to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq3r7eclk4c - Chris Tomlin song about the Rapture and Resurection called "I Will Rise" - Good song, I like Mr. Tomlin songs

[–] fsrsk2 8 years ago

Seriously??? You think mental illness is demonic possession.

Let me guess, you're voting for Trump aren't you?

Sometimes the appropriate response to reality is to go insane. -Phillip Dick

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

Really? I can't stand Trump! :-) lol funny you would say that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JI4CPfuLW0 - Mercy Me -

[–] fsrsk2 8 years ago

Well, since you seem to be as, how should I put this, "educated" as all his followers I assumed. Mental illness is NOT demonic possession. I happen to suffer from a mental illness and find your comments highly uneducated. God does not equal scientific fact. This is my problem with some people like you who pose as Christians when really, you're just trolling because you can.

Sometimes the appropriate response to reality is to go insane. -Phillip Dick

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

illness

I haven't tried this "but with God, all things are possible" Matthew 19:26

Laying on of Hands and Anointing the Sick with Oil

Laying hands on the sick was a common practice in the Early Church. Jesus often laid hands on people before healing them (Mark 6:5; Luke 4:40; 13:13). Paul laid hands on a sick person and he was healed (Acts 28:8).

Jesus said concerning His followers, "they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well" (Mark 16:18).

In a congregational situation, the usual procedure is for a sick Christian to call for the elders of the church to pray over him and to anoint him with oil. (James 5:14-16).

In biblical times oil was commonly used as a healing agent (Luke 10:34). But when used by the early Christians for anointing purposes it was merely a symbolic reminder to God’s healing power. Healing takes place by the power of the Holy Spirit. Acts 10:38
Zechariah 4:4-6

At times the touch of a praying person and the application of oil are an encouragement to faith, and such a practice is enjoined by Scripture (James 5:14-16).

Full doc: http://ag.org/top/beliefs/topics/gendoct_12_sick.cfm - Assembly of God Church

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeGNgBwPTMA - Third Day - Cry Out To Jesus W/Lyrics

[–] fsrsk2 8 years ago

Seriously? You think God and magic are going to cure me? LOLing

Sometimes the appropriate response to reality is to go insane. -Phillip Dick

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

Yes, seriously. I believe God can do all things but I wouldn't use the term "magic" because God is against His people doing sorcery (witchcraft). This do not is Scriptural.

This morning, close to 10 am (on November 22, 2016) there was a story on Air1 radio station (I'm in Oklahoma), it involved a question that the radio station asked. The Question was "What would you consider a Blessing that others would disagree that it wasn't a blessing?"

A man called in and said "Going to Prison" was a blessing for me. The man went on to say that he was approached by men in prison about God. (I read that some people get saved in prison). As a result, the man fell to his knees and ask God "please take my addictions away from me. He continued to say to God, "I have tried to stop these addictions (that led him to prison) and I have failed each time. Please God, take these addictions away from me."

Conclusion: God took the man's addictions away and when the man got out of prison: he hasn't gone back to those addictions or that old life. The man says "he loves the Lord" and he will always be grateful to God for freeing him.

Hearing this story this morning, brought joyful tears to my eyes. I went through a similiar experience with God. Jesus saved me, too. That is where the term "Jesus Saves" comes from.

"But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind." James 1:6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3WesovtpvI - Third Day - He Is Alive (Official Lyrics, length: 3.5 minutes)

[–] monstermaniac 8 years ago

It's not surprising that every generation of Christian's think they are so special to be living in the end times and will get to watch Jesus come back.

Events and Circumstances Prior to the Rapture

My favorite part of these Abrahamic dogmas. That this ALL POWERFUL God has a nemesis. Not only that, a nemesis who knows that God is all powerful and that he could never do anything against this God. Still, not only that. A nemesis that could only exist and do what it does under the will of an all knowing god with a divine plan. If God both knows the future and willingly set that future in motion through the original creation, then he knew exactly what Satan would end up doing long before he even created him.

There is something known as the problem of evil. Is God willing to stop evil, but not able? Then surely he is not all powerful. Is God able to stop evil, but not willing? Then surely he is evil. Is he both able and willing? Then from where comes evil? Is he neither willing nor able? Then why call him God.

The obvious answer to this, which the religious only sometimes, sneakily try to use, is that there really is no evil in the world. Every "bad" thing that happens from the stubbing of your toe to the most atrocious murder, is all part of God's divine plan which is ultimately good. Of course this is horrible nonsense. When bad things happen, we should be able to call them bad and push back against them. Fighting to prevent them. When our children are sick, a good parent doesn't tell them, it's God's will honey, if you die, you die. They take the child to the hospital. If people are hungry, we try to feed them. If someone murders, we punish them, not thank them for doing their part in God's good plan.

Also, how bleak you must feel to see every bit of change in the world as bad. With all the technological and industrial advances, large scale war is becoming more and more obsolete, since all the biggest nations probably have more to lose than gain from all out war today.

POLITICAL

Yes, it's horrible. The biggest nations in the world trying to work together. Unthinkable. And you really think the nations would ever all agree to be ruled by a single man? Really now.

SOCIAL

All the most useless nonsense Christianity has to offer in one section. Bravo.

"The foundational building block of society, that element which has always been responsible for social order and peace, is the family, and it has been virtually destroyed. The family is to be a man, his wife and their children. The man provides for the wife and children, the wife nurtures and educates the children, and the children obey their parents. In a community of families, adults hold the other adults and children accountable for their actions. The family is based on marriage."

The bible itself actually endorses a man having not only multiple wives, but multiple concubines. Because that was common practice back in that era and is still common in several parts of the world today.

"Marriage is an institution of God and therefore hated by Satan. The devil has worked very hard, primarily through communications media such as TV, movies, news journalists, and entertainment in general to convince women that marriage is detrimental to their freedom and fulfillment in life. Satan has deceived women into believing that they have the same sexual desire as men and that all differences are the result of culture. Satan has worked hard to divide men and women and have them at war with one another, and because of this, the violence between men and women has dramatically increased."

Women have the same rights as men in many parts of the world today and don't have to get married and be a stay home mom if they don't want to. Oh, the humanity, make it stop. People are all different. Not only can a woman find marriage as detrimental to her freedom, but a man can too.

Oh, and women have been tricked by the media to think they actually have a sex drive and can enjoy sex independent of procreation. Golly, who would have thunk it.

"Civil war has been a constant theme of this age and unrest will continue into the end times: man vs. women, black vs. white, Muslim vs. Jew, Catholic vs. Protestant, Muslim vs. Christian, one Muslim faction vs. another Muslim faction, one black African tribe vs. another black African tribe, nation vs. nation, people vs. people. Whatever divides people into different groups, Satan uses to inspire hate, strife and violence."

Not all people of the world get along. This is a typical fact, not a new development, sorry.

"Homosexuality and all sorts of perverse behavior are accepted as normal. The world dictator (anti-christ) himself will not have the normal sexual attraction to women and may be asexual. Many theologians believe that he will probably be openly homosexual as indicated in the Bible in the book of Daniel 11:37: "and he will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women". And therefore, after the rapture, more than likely marriage will be discouraged or illegal, and homosexual and lesbian relationships highly encouraged."

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa.

Homosexuality is so bad that even the antichrist will by gay! Thanks for the laugh.

Homosexuals are your friends, your family, your neighbors, and your countrymen whether you like it or not. "Oh but it's icky!" No doubt. I think it's gross too because it's just not my thing. Like the idea of older people or overweight people getting it on. Doesn't mean it's wrong and last time I checked, I could just not concern myself about what others do in their bedrooms and be just fine.

ECONOMIC

Welcome to capitalism. Ain't it fun? And will this be like a fun little stamp you get at a carnival or something? And why should people wait until they have a stamp to not participate. If the economy is already evil, shouldn't they already not be participating?

GEOPHYSICAL

Signs of the Times

As far as natural disasters go, welcome to planet Earth. The planet always has and always will produce those types of events all the time. Sometimes they will even be more frequent than other times, and there will also eventually be truly wide scale destructive events, such as ice ages and lands changing to oceans and oceans changing to lands. It's the result of living on an ever transforming natural wonder such as our Earth.

As far as human conflict. Again, welcome to the world as it's always been. Except, things are slowly getting better. Violence overall is dropping, fewer people are dying in wars, we are striving to solve the issues we face such as hunger and poverty. But these things take time. Like I said, technology is growing like crazy and we could very well finally solve our problems. Try seeing the glass as half full once in a while why don't you.

The Rapture

After the Rapture

Because an all powerful God simply MUST go through with some sort of nightmare scenario instead of just zapping all who believe and all who will eventually believe (since he should already know) into Heaven and zapping all who will never follow him into Hell.

My question to Christians who think this way is, why should I be happy in your view of the world? Even if I went to Heaven, I couldn't be free of sorrow for those in Hell, and if God is going to modify me in any way so I can't feel sorrow for them, well, for one, how horrible, to be human and have no sympathy, and two, I guess no one goes to heaven then, only modified versions of people.

I'm also quite curious as to what your God actually wants. If he wants me to love him, well too bad, I can't. Not with the reward of Heaven or the punishment of Hell in the mix. I can only ever want to get something from God, or want to survive him. I cannot love him anymore than I can truly love someone with a gun to my head demanding I love them.

If God merely wants cowardly and submissive servants. Well that's fair enough. But when a powerful man wants the same thing, we call them a tyrant or dictator. When an all powerful God wants the same thing, you also feel the need to add all good and all perfect to their description.

And oh how I can imagine the religious masses jumping for joy if a nuclear war were to break out, thinking how fortunate and lucky they are to witness the end of our world. How can people hate life so much they pine for the horrors of the rapture narrative. And they say that us Atheists are lost in sorrow and hopelessness.

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

To monstermaniac:

Thanks for replying to my post and for sharing your point-of-view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaVg0cWkgAw -the Voice of Truth - Casting Crowns

[–] monstermaniac 8 years ago

No Problemo.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

To Monstermanic: I had some time to answer your questions today:

You said "Is God willing to stop evil, but not able? Then surely he is not all powerful. Is God able to stop evil, but not willing?

God created everything. Now here's the shocker: God created evil so the answer is plain: Yes, God can stop evil and He will, in His own timing. You might ask why not now? My husband and I, believe that God created good and evil to see which one everyone would pick. Human beings are all being tested while were here on earth.

You said They take the child to the hospital.
God talks to us in our thoughts, so I believe it would be God that would tell that individual to take their child to the Hospital.

You said If someone murders, we punish them, not thank them for doing their part in God's good plan.

God allows FREE WILL. Murder is NOT according to God's plan. God could speak to the man planning on murdering someone but it's the man's choice to kill. Although, there are consequences to what that man will face: prison here on earth and God's judgment when he dies.

You said With all the technological and industrial advances, large scale war is becoming more and more obsolete..

God says "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places." Matthew 24:7 Who can say what will happen in 40+ years?

You said And you really think the nations would ever all agree to be ruled by a single man?

Yes, I do believe the AntiChrist will run it for 7 years (as prophesied) until Jesus comes back to the earth (His Second coming). He'll have help but he'll be in charge and you either accept his mark on your hand or forehead (the Mark 666) or be tortured and or beheaded. It is prophesied that people will need the Mark to buy food, etc without it you can't buy food etc. So how can someone survive without food? More than likely I will be dead when all this happens. It's the young people (in their twenties) and their children that will be alive to see it. I don't want to see it.

You said The bible itself actually endorses a man having not only multiple wives, but multiple concubines. Because that was common practice back in that era and is still common in several parts of the world today.

Christians don't or shouldn't be living by the Old Testament any more. Christians live by the New Testament because when Jesus came into the World, it changed most everything. One husband for one wife, anything else is considered Adultery.

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32

You said Satan has worked hard to divide men and women and have them at war with one another, and because of this, the violence between men and women has dramatically increased."

Are you saying that you believe that Satan exists in the world today? I believe, Satan exists in the world and yes, using media, tv, etc, I agree with you on that.

You said Homosexuality is so bad that even the antichrist will by gay! Thanks for the laugh.

Do you think I wrote Post Rapture Survival Guide? No, I did not write it. The Author's name is Jeffrey Harbin. I did another google today and found his Post Rapture Survival Guide Book at Walmart. Whether the antichrist is gay or not, that will be the least of people's worries, once he becomes into power. Just remember when you hear the term "New Order" be on your alert, on what we talked about today.

You said When an all powerful God wants

Christians believe that God created mankind. I believe that if God created mankind then, it's His creation, then He can do whatever He wants with His creation.
For example, if you built something, then later decided to destroy it, it was yours to begin with. Basically, it is yours to do with it whatever you like. It is the same way with mankind, God created us so we belong to Him. However, during these days, God is giving us a choice: Him or Satan. People ONLY have these two choices.

Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. Revelation 21:1

In conclusion: I am not trying to make you believe what I am saying because that is your God-given right to decide for yourself. I am merely giving you my point-of-view from what I have learned in the last 13+ years in bible studying and from Church Pastors.

You said And they say that us Atheists are lost in sorrow and hopelessness.
I never heard that said about Atheists. Then again, I try not to be around people, every day. I retired in 2003 because I got sick with a crippling disease (RA), the doctors tell me, I have diabetes now. My body is ready for a new unfailing body in Heaven. As far as people that don't make it to Heaven: they have the same chance that I have so if they don't make it, they must have gone the other way so oh well, they should have picked Jesus' way, to the truth and the life. John 14:6

Please show me the same kindness that I have shown you today. Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytCt8WrxDj4 -Revelation - Third Day -

[–] monstermaniac 8 years ago

"Please show me the same kindness that I have shown you today. Thanks!"

Certainly

I find the following quotes quite strange. You said 1. God created everything. Now here's the shocker: God created evil Then you said 2. Murder is NOT according to God's plan.

A. God created evil
B. Murder is an evil
C. God created murder

If he didn't want murder in his plan, then why did he create it? And if he created all evil, why is it humanity's burden to pay for it?

"My husband and I, believe that God created good and evil to see which one everyone would pick. Human beings are all being tested while were here on earth."

While I do not know your exact ideas about God, he is commonly referred to as all knowing, including the future. So why does he need to test us? Long before he created me, he knew that I would end up in Heaven or Hell. This leads into another topic.

"God allows FREE WILL."

How is free will compatible with a God that both knows the future and set a very specific set of events in motion to arrive at his preferred outcome? If God is all powerful then nothing can stop him from achieving his goals, so his goals must include some people ending up in Hell. If you're going to say it's Satan's fault, again, how does this all powerful God have a nemesis that can usurp his plans?

Further, if evil and sin is born out of human free will, does that mean there is no free will in Heaven? If there is free will in Heaven but no sin, then that means God could have made us with free will but without sin.

God could speak to the man planning on murdering someone but it's the man's choice to kill.

Is it the murder victims choice to be murdered? No. So a murder victims free will is being violated. If someone's free will is going to be violated in the situation one way or another, then why does God favor the free will of the murderer over that of the victim? Would it really be a violation of free will if God intervened? He could shield the victim in a beam of holy light, and he wouldn't be taking away the murderers ability to want to murder.

Here's a real brain buster. Not really in response to anything, but still dealing with the subject of free will. A. Is God an agency with free will?, B. Does God know the future? I'm guessing your answer to both is yes. This creates a contradiction. If God knows he is going to destroy the world on a specific day, he couldn't change his mind. If he did change his mind, it would mean he didn't know that he would destroy the world on that specific day. Just something to think about.

One more thing. What is the point of free will if we are punished for using it?

God says "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places." Matthew 24:7 Who can say what will happen in 40+ years?

No, God didn't say. The bible CLAIMS that God said. As an atheist, I view the bible in the exact same way you view every other text in existence that is claimed by people to have a sacred, holy origin, such as the Koran. After all, an atheist is just someone who goes one god higher on the disbelief list than most other people.

Christians don't or shouldn't be living by the Old Testament any more. Christians live by the New Testament because when Jesus came into the World, it changed most everything. One husband for one wife, anything else is considered Adultery.

You are likely guilty of what is called cherry picking. Do you agree with the Ten Commandments? Those are from the old testament. Are you against homosexuality? The most prominent verses against homosexuality are in the old testament. If you think some of the old testament is still applicable, you'd have to explain the mechanism you use to determine what is to be tossed out and what is to be kept.

You said Satan has worked hard to divide men and women and have them at war with one another, and because of this, the violence between men and women has dramatically increased."

No, you said that. Bit of a mix up there it seems.

Do you think I wrote Post Rapture Survival Guide? No, I did not write it. The Author's name is Jeffrey Harbin. I did another google today and found his Post Rapture Survival Guide Book at Walmart. Whether the antichrist is gay or not, that will be the least of people's worries, once he becomes into power.

Fair enough. It is also fair enough for me to assume you agree with everything you are posting on this forum at your own discretion.

Christians believe that God created mankind. I believe that if God created mankind then, it's His creation, then He can do whatever He wants with His creation.

If he existed, there would be nothing I could do to stop him from doing whatever he wants with me. It wouldn't mean ANYTHING he chose to do would be right. People in dictatorships are powerless against dictators. That doesn't mean whatever the dictator does to them is right.

For example, if you built something, then later decided to destroy it, it was yours to begin with. Basically, it is yours to do with it whatever you like. It is the same way with mankind, God created us so we belong to Him.

How about if I built something that could feel pain and fear and terror and despair. Then I decided to rape and torture it for years and years. Would that be okay? I built it after all.

However, during these days, God is giving us a choice: Him or Satan. People ONLY have these two choices.

Again, he knew my choice long before he created me. So what is the point of all of this?

I am not trying to make you believe what I am saying because that is your God-given right to decide for yourself.

You believe it's my God given right, but it's really a right afforded to me by the founding fathers of America who knew the importance of separation of church and state. It sure wouldn't be a right of mine in any sense if I lived in a fanatical part of the middle east.

I am merely giving you my point-of-view from what I have learned in the last 13+ years in bible studying and from Church Pastors.

Understood. I am giving you my point-of-view after putting arguments from both sides through the filters of my own personalized reason and logic which is the best anyone can do in the end.

Then again, I try not to be around people, every day. I retired in 2003 because I got sick with a crippling disease (RA), the doctors tell me, I have diabetes now.

Sorry to hear that.

My body is ready for a new unfailing body in Heaven.

It's all well and good that you have that hope and I do not claim absolute knowledge that your hopes will not be met. I can only guess that this life and this body are all I'm ever going to have, so I better cherish them for as long and as well as I can.

As far as people that don't make it to Heaven: they have the same chance that I have so if they don't make it, they must have gone the other way so oh well, they should have picked Jesus' way, to the truth and the life. John 14:6

I could only surmise that you lack the level of empathy I have. I'm a firm believer in being angry and sad for at least a part of every day. Angry and sad for the injustice and pain inflicted on undeserving victims all the time all over the world. Anyone who is blissful all the time is not giving his fellow man the consideration and thought they deserve. And heaven is DEFINED as eternal bliss without even a thought for the damned. If all who reside in heaven are those who couldn't be bothered to have some sympathy and sorrow for those in hell, I would indeed have to wonder where the wicked of the world truly wound up.

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

First of all: how much do you know about the Bible? Would you say you are a beginner or know a lot about the bible? Why am asking? Because some of your questions have to do with Genesis, the book when God created Adam and Eve, the first human beings. Please advise. Thanks.

[–] monstermaniac 8 years ago

First of all: how much do you know about the Bible?

I know enough. I haven't read the entire bible, but that doesn't disqualify me from discussing or debating about it. A person can know absolutely nothing about the bible and still have an interesting conversation about it.

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

Sorry that you misunderstood my intention/question. I was asking you how much you knew because I was going to discuss Genesis but I wasn't sure if you were a beginner, intermediate or advance user of the bible. No offense towards you. Just wanted to know what level you were, is all. I have read the Old Testament up to Ezra and the New Testament, I have read through it, a bunch of times. I have attended bible study for my age group at First Baptist Church in Rogers, Arkansas (in summer of 2007 to the summer of 2008). My main learning has been from Pastor Charles F Stanley of Atlanta, Georgia, through Intouch Ministries (I think it's NBC that televises it) and also through Mr Stanley's books and sermons. Sometimes, I go to intouch.org and get a lot of helpful information there, too.

interesting conversation about it

I definitely agree with that statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhqZxZTY5js - Our Deliever is Coming - with lyrics

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

You said: While I do not know your exact ideas about God, he is commonly referred to as all knowing, including the future. So why does he need to test us? Long before he created me, he knew that I would end up in Heaven or Hell.

Answer:

In God We Trust

Christians trust God, without question, period. Trusting someone, is without question. Haven't you ever trusted someone without question?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2i_JhLUWAQ -Trust in Jesus-

[–] monstermaniac 8 years ago

Christians trust God, without question, period. Trusting someone, is without question. Haven't you ever trusted someone without question?

No. I do trust people, but only after years of knowing them and being aware of their consistent honesty and desire to do right by me.

I see very little reason to trust an entity I've never met or talked to without question.

You do realize trust without question can be a dangerous thing don't you? Trust without question can allow cult leaders to amass followers and tyrants to amass soldiers to kill for them.

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

You said:
I see very little reason to trust an entity I've never met or talked to without question.

Answer: God is good everywhere but you have to accept that all good things come from God. Even for a day of disaster, He works all things so that some good will come out of it. Proverbs 16:4
Like our former Tennessee Landlord, Mr Schiller, who went to a University to become a Methodist Minister, years ago, his wife had an attack on her pancreas and when he took her to the Hospital, the Doctors took care of her Hernia (or something like that). You see God was working there for her.
Another Example:
Gunman, James Holmes shoots them people at a theater event 'Batman' film in July 2012. I heard that his gun got jammed...I believe, that is when God showed up...Keeping Holmes from shooting more people, when his gun jammed, the cops showed up and took him into custody.
There are many times, in my pass that I should have gotten killed but I believe, God was protecting me from harm, a bunch of times.
There are also countless times, when God protected people that I have not displayed here. What it comes down is this: FAITH. Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. Hebrews 11:1

This man from "Lilies of the Field" film said:
"To me it is insurance, to me life is here on earth, I cannot see any further so I cannot believe any further. But if they are right, about the here and after, I have paid my insurance."
The word "insurance" he's referring to: helping or giving for the sake of God existence but not sure if it works that way because salvation is a free gift from God. I heard that you can't earn your way to Heaven but it is grace from God. At least that is how we were taught from First Baptist Church.
You said:
You do realize trust without question can be a dangerous thing don't you?
Answer:
Yes, I'm like you, I watch how someone lives and how they are around me for a time before I trust them but we're not talking about mortal people but the one true God that works miracles. I put my trust in Him. He is the only one that I can trust because mortal people will let you down, sooner or later but God won't let you down.
I get what you're saying though: have you ever heard of Guyana Tragedy: The Story of Jim Jones? The film of "true life" events. The film draws on Guyana Massacre: The life of Jim Jones from a 1960s idealist to the November 1978 mass murder/suicide of members of Peoples Temple in Jonestown, Guyana.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guyana_Tragedy:_The_Story_of_Jim_Jones

Problem with these naive people, they believed in Jim Jones, instead of God. Like one woman was getting involved with Jones (married man) but she should have known that God would not have approved so that should have been a sign to her, to find another Church. Bottom line: you have to use your bible of the simple teachings of do's and don'ts, it can save you from getting into a cult. James Warren "Jim" Jones was an American cult leader. That is why we have to educate ourselves of the bible, to put us on the alert of these type of false leaders. Consequently, if someone starts telling you to do something evil, then yes, I wouldn't trust them either.

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." Matthew 7:15

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

You said:
Like in this instance, following the logic just leads to so many more mysteries about this God.
Answer: God is a mystery to most people. I am not going to lie and say I know God's plan because I don't. I do know that God has chosen His people already so in other words, not everyone is going to Heaven. If you look at Ephesians 1:4 "For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight." Could it be that those people that died in the theater: weren't God's chosen ones? Or perhaps, some of them were His chosen ones and they went straight to Heaven to be with Him?

You said:
That definition simply means that faith is believing something regardless of there not being good evidence for it.
Answer: If there were good evidence: it wouldn't be faith.

You said:
When Christians say you just have to have faith, first they are admitting that no, none of it really makes sense then they are offering an unfounded assertion that it isn't supposed to make sense.
Answer: It won't make sense to people that do NOT have faith. Or it won't make sense to people who do NOT believe in God. But it makes perfect sense to followers of Christ Jesus/God.

You said:
On the other side, it doesn't matter what horrendous atrocities a person commits, as long as they genuinely repent of their sins before death they win everlasting bliss for eternity. Certainly no respectable system of morality and justice.
Answer: If a person genuinely repents before his last breathe, yes, he will be saved, no matter if he only has a short time to live.

See Parable of the Laborers in the Vineyard? Deals with being saved for an hour.
Link to parable: http://biblehub.com/bsb/matthew/20.htm

We are all sinful and “fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), but His grace is sufficient to redeem all who believe. Whether God calls someone early or late in life to partake of His grace, the glory and praise for our salvation is His and His alone and in no way amounts to unfairness. Just as the landowner has a right to do what he wishes with his own money, so does God have the right to have mercy on whom He will have mercy.
Reference to the above paragraph (I totally agree with it.)
https://gotquestions.org/parable-laborers-vineyard.html

You said:
But what I actually see is sufficient evidence that there are no gods talking to anybody, and instead that power gap is filled in by simple, limited, corrupt, fallible people just like yourself.

Answer: Oh so now, I'm being put-down? You said that you would show me the same kindness that I have shown you? That doesn't sound kind to me. Not only did you call me fallible but corrupt, too? Furthermore, you told me that we could have an intelligent talk about the bible but I don't see any references from the bible, just your own statements.

You said:
Why not just skip that last step and accept that doctors today know a thing or two about the human anatomy and ailments?

Answer: We are going to have to stop this conversion because whatever I say, you always find some way to knock God. I considered Jesus, my friend, and I love Him so but you keep putting Him down. Let me put it this way: do you love someone more than yourself? Is there anyone that you love? If you do have someone you love and a guy kept putting your love one down, wouldn't you at some point get angry with this man? That is how I feel about God, I keep saying nice things about Him but you find some way of putting him down. Lets stop here, besides, you have cross the line and insulted/hurt me so I don't want to talk to you anymore...bye.

[–] monstermaniac 8 years ago

Oh so now, I'm being put-down? You said that you would show me the same kindness that I have shown you? That doesn't sound kind to me. Not only did you call me fallible but corrupt, too?

I do apologize for that. I was a bit tired when I wrote that and accidentally crammed two ideas into one sentence. What I really meant was the power gap could be filled by fallible people like you or I(and yes, everyone is fallible) OR it could be filled by corrupt people. That's what I really meant to say.

If there were good evidence: it wouldn't be faith.

But why is that the ultimate virtue? Why would a God set up this universe, set up a heaven and a hell, then put us to a test were our proof of worth is to simply believe in something on bad evidence? Why is it that in every other facet of our lives, we know to rely on evidence and reason to make our decisions but when it comes to maybe the most ultimate decision of ones life (their perception of the universe) why is evidence and reason to be tossed out?

If a person genuinely repents before his last breathe, yes, he will be saved, no matter if he only has a short time to live.

Forgiveness is all well and good, but what this idea ultimately accomplishes is relieving people of responsibility for their actions.

Whether you accept my apology or not I do recommend we go ahead and end this conversation because of your last paragraph.

We are going to have to stop this conversion because whatever I say, you always find some way to knock God. I considered Jesus, my friend, and I love Him so but you keep putting Him down. Let me put it this way: do you love someone more than yourself? Is there anyone that you love? If you do have someone you love and a guy kept putting your love one down, wouldn't you at some point get angry with this man? That is how I feel about God, I keep saying nice things about Him but you find some way of putting him down.

You seem distressed at someone scrutinizing and questioning your beliefs so deeply.

I thought my posts made it clear enough, if not I'm sorry. Yes, I find your theology logically and philosophically bankrupt and I find the Christian God, as described in the bible, morally and ethically bankrupt. If I didn't, why would I be an atheist? This is also why I implored you to notice that your answers to my questions only begged more questions. While I find you personally to be polite and admirable, I do find your reasoning flawed. Just honest truth.

But I do bid you well.

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

You said:
While I find you personally to be polite and admirable.

Answer: I accept your apology, it is just that I am very sensitive.

This morning I received this message from God:

"For God is not unjust. He will not forget how hard you have worked for him and how you have shown your love to him by caring for other believers, as you still do." Hebrews 6:10 (NLT)

One way he speaks to us, through His comforting scriptures. I don't know how I could live without God. When my father died, a few years ago, God was the one who got me through it and He stills gets me through it. I get my strength from the Lord. When trouble comes, God is the one, who I turned to. No one on this world, can do that for me.

I do wish/pray that you will remember these words of mine. So when trouble comes your way and you feel like you don't have anyone to turn to or that no one can help: Remember Jesus is always there for you, even when you can't see him, He's there for you because He loves you, like no other.

I bid you best regards in your search of the answers that will lead you to Him, one day.

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

You said:

A. God created evil
B. Murder is an evil
C. God created murder

If he didn't want murder in his plan, then why did he create it? And if he created all evil, why is it humanity's burden to pay for it?

My Answer: You asked some great questions. I, as a child, I used to ask my mother "Why did God do this or that?" My mother would reply "when you die, you ask God." My sister, who's been a Christian longer than me says "that is the Million Dollar question." A Pastor (e.g. First Baptist Church) could answer that better than we could.

God created Adam (Genesis 2:7) and Eve (Genesis 2:18). God told them that they could eat from any of the trees in the Garden of Eden BUT NOT to eat from the Tree of Knowledge. (Genesis 3:3) One day, while Eve was alone, a serpent came to her (In the book of Revelation, the serpent was the Devil) and spoke to Eve. The serpent deceived Eve and she bit the apple and went against God's command. Eve committed the first sin.

Is sin evil? I did a google "What is evil?" and google synonyms results: wicked (evil) and sinful..See Isaiah 45:7 http://biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm -see King James Version If you look at the other interpretations under New International Version, it reads

"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

I am reading the other bible versions and I'm wondering, if that person from IMDb told me (months ago) correctly? Boy, I am sure glad you brought that up. Create disasters could be hurricanes that happen in the ocean or tornadoes, etc. Just goes to show you that you got to do the research and read multiple bible versions before coming to a correct conclusion. So scratch what I said about God creating evil. I wouldn't want to tell you wrong. I use biblehub.com for searching bible scriptures. I think it's the best.

Later, Eve convinced Adam to bite the apple, too, so Adam sinned too. They both were casted out of the Garden of Eden, for sinning against God. (Genesis 3:23 - Old Testament)
Reference links:
https://www.google.com/#q=is+the+serpent+in+the+bible+the+devil
http://biblehub.com/revelation/12-9.htm
http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-2.htm

After Adam and Eve bit the apple from the tree of knowledge: they knew good and evil. (Genesis 3:22) Since then, it is mankind's choice to do either: good or evil. Evil is like a Cancer: as time goes on, the cancer grows and spreads. I believe sin is like a cancer, it spreads from man's bad choices (usually from greediness and or coveting what a man sees with his eyes.)

It was Adam and Eve's son Cain, who committed the first murder. Cain killed his brother Abel. Cain was very jealous of his brother Abel so he killed him. Genesis 4:8 (OT)

It's man's hands that murders -"free will" yet sin/murder has serious consequences.

Do not fret because of evildoers... For there will be no future for the evil man; The lamp of the wicked will be put out. Proverbs 24:19-20

for like the grass they (evildoers) will soon wither, like green plants they will soon die away. Psalm 37:2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbe7OruLk8I "Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea." Revelation 21:1

[–] monstermaniac 8 years ago

You have spent this entire post talking about the story of Adam and Eve, which I am very familiar with.

You see, Christians say the most important part of their religion is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I would contest that. I believe the most important part of Christianity is the same as most other religions, the story of how human beings became defected and can now only be cured by whatever religion. In Christianity, that is of course, Adam and Eve.

God's omniscience once again raises problems for this story in that he must have known long before he created Adam and Eve that they would break his commands. One must also ask, why is it that God just HAD to put the curse tree in the garden to begin with? How about the serpent? God had to know it was there and that it would trick Adam and Eve into eating the fruit yet he did nothing.

Also, Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and only afterwards did they know good from evil. So how do you punish someone for doing wrong when they didn't even know what wrong is? How do you punish a creature that doesn't even have the mental faculties to be able to know it is naked?

There is another way one can interpret this story. It can be an ancient metaphor for mans transition from hunter gatherer to more technical and productive beings, which is a more difficult thing for us to be.

Taken as the story of man kinds fall, it basically condemns mankind for not being the robots God apparently actually wanted.

I am going to post a text written by Ayn Rand about original sin, rather than try to paraphrase and butcher it. I do promise that I am not merely leaning on someone else's words since I have rigorously put this through my own filters of reason and logic and have found it to be quite insightful.

"Your code begins by damning man as evil, then demands that he practice a good which it defines as impossible for him to practice. It demands, as his first proof of virtue, that he accept his own depravity without proof. It demands that he start, not with a standard of value, but with a standard of evil, which is himself, by means of which he is then to define the good: the good is that which he is not.

It does not matter who then becomes the profiteer on his renounced glory and tormented soul, a mystic God with some incomprehensible design or any passer-by whose rotting sores are held as some inexplicable claim upon him—it does not matter, the good is not for him to understand, his duty is to crawl through years of penance, atoning for the guilt of his existence to any stray collector of unintelligible debts, his only concept of a value is a zero: the good is that which is non-man.

The name of this monstrous absurdity is Original Sin.

A sin without volition is a slap at morality and an insolent contradiction in terms: that which is outside the possibility of choice is outside the province of morality. If man is evil by birth, he has no will, no power to change it; if he has no will, he can be neither good nor evil; a robot is amoral. To hold, as man’s sin, a fact not open to his choice is a mockery of morality. To hold man’s nature as his sin is a mockery of nature. To punish him for a crime he committed before he was born is a mockery of justice. To hold him guilty in a matter where no innocence exists is a mockery of reason. To destroy morality, nature, justice and reason by means of a single concept is a feat of evil hardly to be matched. Yet that is the root of your code.

Do not hide behind the cowardly evasion that man is born with free will, but with a “tendency” to evil. A free will saddled with a tendency is like a game with loaded dice. It forces man to struggle through the effort of playing, to bear responsibility and pay for the game, but the decision is weighted in favor of a tendency that he had no power to escape. If the tendency is of his choice, he cannot possess it at birth; if it is not of his choice, his will is not free.

What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call his Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge—he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil—he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor—he became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desire—he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joy—all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he was—that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without love—he was not man.

Man’s fall, according to your teachers, was that he gained the virtues required to live. These virtues, by their standard, are his Sin. His evil, they charge, is that he’s man. His guilt, they charge, is that he lives.

They call it a morality of mercy and a doctrine of love for man."

[–] JC_gives_u_hope 8 years ago

To Monstermanic:
You said:
You are likely guilty of what is called cherry picking. Do you agree with the Ten Commandments? OT

Answer:
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. " John 13:34

When Jesus used the term "Love one another" it actually covers everything in the Ten Commandments.

Two examples:

If a husband truly loves his wife, he wouldn't commit adultery. Matthew 5:27-28

You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery. But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

If you love someone, you wouldn't murder them.

Jesus talks about these commandments in Mark 10:19 (NT), so yes, I believe the Ten Commandments are parallel to "Love one another..." -new commandment. John 13:34

Reference: https://gotquestions.org/marriage-heaven.html - For a couple years, I've used this website, it coincides with my beliefs.

You said: If you think some of the old testament is still applicable, you'd have to explain the mechanism you use to determine what is to be tossed out and what is to be kept.

Answer: Thumb of rule: the New Testament overrides the Old Testament. Examples below:

What to be tossed out: having more than one wife. Today, bigamy is against the US law and God is against it, too. Replaced with:

'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife...Matthew 19:5

I believe, back then in Adam and Eve's days, the world needed to be filled with people and that is why men had more than one wife, etc. After hundreds of years later, the world didn't need to be filled with people so when Moses was given the Ten Commandments by God: it was to be one husband for one wife.

What to be tossed out: eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.. Replaced With:

Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. Romans 12:19

You said: Are you against homosexuality? The most prominent verses against homosexuality are in the old testament.
Answer:

Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God... 1 Peter 2:17

that said, I try to show love (to be kind) to everyone because that is what Jesus taught and all Christians should abide in the New Testament teachings.

Luke 6:27
Luke 6:31
Matthew 7:12

[–] monstermaniac 8 years ago

The bible does contradict you on this.

Mathew 5: 17-18

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Jesus is talking about the old testament here.