MovieChat Forums > Denial (2016) Discussion > HUMAN BEINGS?

HUMAN BEINGS?

posted 8 years ago by majandralover30
14 replies | jump to latest

I'm not sure how to say this PC so i can only ask this sincerely. If you are a hardcore racist/bigot, then wouldn't you want to not only admit the holocaust, but relish in it? Also, isn't it important to see that millions of human beings were killed? yet whenever i hear about the holocaust, i only hear about Jewish people, described not as six million people who happened to be Jewish, but simply six million Jews. And didn't Hitler kill many more human beings than that of many different groups? I know there is a lot of politics and strong emotions etc, attached to this, but aren't certain important points glossed over?

[–] ZortMcFleen 8 years ago

I think there are a lot of anti-Semites who actually accept that there were gas chambers, that there were six million Jews murdered, that it was a Nazi program of genocide. But they pretend to not believe it because they know Jews hate that.

Also, not everyone who died in WWII died the same way, or for the same reason. The Jews of the Holocaust died because they were Jews. Being an infant didn't save you; being a hundred years old didn't save you. Being a liberal didn't save you; being a conservative didn't save you. Being religious didn't save you; being atheist didn't save you. Being rich didn't save you; being poor didn't save you. Male, female, young, old -- all that mattered to the Nazis was that you were a Jew, because to them, that was enough reason for them to kill you. Not because you were fighting them on the battlefield, not because you even knew how to fire a gun, not that you could even hold a gun, but because you were a Jew. It was so unique a crime they had to invent a new word for it: genocide.

Now, the Nazis did kill a lot of soldiers on the battlefield, and those who died fighting the Nazis deserve every honor. And the Nazis did kill a lot of political opposition and resistance fighters, who also deserve every honor. But Auschwitz wasn't a battlefield, and the babies and elderly murdered there were no army. That is why the world was so horrified to learn of the Holocaust: it was, in effect, Hitler's gruesome little hobby on the side.

[–] majandralover30 8 years ago

true enough, but what I meant was that there were others who died in the death camps besides Jews. There were the first on his hit list, but he also killed millions of gays, gyspies, eastern Europeans groups, etc. Most Jews were killed of the ethnic groups, but I do not understand why I never hear about the types of people. didn't hitler kill their babies and elderly as well?

[–] ZortMcFleen 8 years ago

I think there are a few reasons that people tend to talk about the Holocaust in terms of the Jews.

- There are about six million Jews in the US but only one million Romani. It is easier to bump into a Jew who lost family than it is to find someone Romani who lost family.

- There's also a sort of categorical laziness. It's the same reason people say the US invaded Normandy on D-Day, and leave out the Canadian landing at Juno Beach.

More here on the Romani, BTW: https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219

It is not known precisely how many Roma were killed in the Holocaust. While exact figures or percentages cannot be ascertained, historians estimate that the Germans and their allies killed around 25 percent of all European Roma. Of slightly less than one million Roma believed to have been living in Europe before the war, the Germans and their Axis partners killed up to 220,000.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ZortMcFleen 8 years ago

Clean-up in aisle 4; somebody just tried the "I'm a pretend Jew, here's how evil I am" thing and got it all over the floor.

[–] Iron_Giant 8 years ago

I would say, "Nice try," but it was far too transparent and obvious a charade to be called that.

Please don't call someone a _____tard.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] pjpoconnell 8 years ago

Majandralover30: What the anti-Semites amount to saying is that the Holocaust never happened, but should have.

[–] BravisJ 8 years ago

100,000-150,000 Jews served in Hitler's armies. That tells you something about the genocide. Why would the Jews decide to fight for a regime that was being rumored of their intentional extermination? It's because Hitler was more concerned with destroying communism. There were some Jews that liked Hitler. They understood the communist threat, and Hitler understood that not all Jews were communists.

Now, most anti-Semites/neo-Nazis are under the delusion that the other races need to be annihilated. I think their hatred steams from the false history shown in the class room. I don't think they'd be attracted to Nazism if they understood that Hitler was being misguided into a hatred for the Jews because he thought they were the cause of communism.

I didn't live in Germany in the time of Hitler, so I cannot say that my thoughts on the subject are 100% correct. But I think that Zort's assertions could be correct. Anti-Semites probably do say that Jews didn't die in the Holocaust to tick people off. But I'm not claiming I believe that the Holocaust/extermination was systematic as is supposedly recorded.

Hate groups will always distort their own beliefs in order to seem cooler than the rest. But that doesn't mean that they believe the Holocaust happened. If I were an anti-Semite, I'd be carrying the Nazi banner that says: "We exterminated 6 million of you. The rest is sure to come!"

I don't really know what kind of banner they do carry. I'm not even certain of what they really believe. I've never gone looking. I only look into that which I find heartbreaking. People being persecuted has always caused me a feeling of injustice.

[–] ZortMcFleen 8 years ago

People being persecuted has always caused me a feeling of injustice.

Unless they're the six million Jews of the Holocaust; for those, you scour hate sites looking for excuses and pretexts to piss on their graves.

[–] BravisJ 8 years ago

I loath to even answer you, Zort. You're a neo-Nazi is the highest degree! If the Nazis talked awfully of the Jews, then you can be classified as a neo-Nazi, for they are filled with rhetoric and hate speech, and that is what you are committing towards me. Thankfully you have me on ignore!

But in answer. No, if 6 million Jews did indeed die from WWII, I have a severe problem with that. No one should be treated like that! No one! And no one should be treated by the likes of you the way in which you've treated me!

Denying an historical event doesn't mean approving it even if it indeed happened...

[–] majandralover30 8 years ago

but wouldn't they want to admit and relish that it happened, and lament it not being finished?

[–] ZortMcFleen 8 years ago

Not if they think denying the crime, calling it a Jew hoax, hurts Jews more.

[–] BravisJ 8 years ago

Zort is right, in this case. I think that a true anti-Semite does indeed get great kicks from denying the Holocaust, if they do believe it happened and slander the Jewish religion by saying it did not.

Denying an historical event doesn't mean approving it even if it indeed happened...