MovieChat Forums > Denial (2016) Discussion > Why is it that one can question any

Why is it that one can question any

posted 8 years ago by easyrhino
21 replies | jump to latest

event in the history of planet Earth and not get thrown in jail with the exception of "The Holocaust"?

When you have a truth that is protected by the threat of imprisonment naturally people are going to wonder what there is to hide.

Furthermore, it appears that the 6 million number that has been offered has been in constant use with regards to Jews for decades before WW2.

Do I dislike Jews in any way? Nope! Am I skeptical the 6 million number has been vastly inflated for political gain? Yep!

https://www.google.com/search?q=Jews+6+million&biw=1366&bih=651&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwimw4va1-nOAhVO12MKHcyRBRcQsAQIJQ&dpr=1

[–] ZortMcFleen 8 years ago

Here's my question. When are the Holocaust deniers going to come up with a new opening gambit that wasn't already moldy back when neo-Nazi Zündel was slinging it in the 1980s?

Slow learners, aintcha?

[–] dalbrech 8 years ago

A. I am opposed to making Holocaust Denial illegal because it allows the Hitler Huggers to play the "I am being persecuted for Freedom of Speech" card. I don't want to give them that weapon.
B.That being said, they are a bunch of comtemptible ,bigoted, idiots.

[–] ZortMcFleen 8 years ago

I agree with both your points. So, incidentally, does Deborah Lipstadt, although that doesn't keep the white-power types from claiming (i.e. lying) that she celebrated when Irving was jailed.

The real question is whether there should be laws against hate speech. Some countries have 'em, some don't. I prefer don't.

What there isn't a question on is whether Holocaust denial is a form of hate speech. It is, and has been since its first heil.

[–] dalbrech 8 years ago

Some of the Deniers are not so much hard core bigots,but the kind of idiot who will spout any nonsense if they think it make them look "Edgy","Cool" "Daring" and "Anti Establishment".

[–] ZortMcFleen 8 years ago

But pragmatically which is better, spouting neo-Nazi propaganda without meaning to (or because you're too effin' dumb to know it's what you're doing, and will shout down anyone who tries to educate you) or spouting neo-Nazi propaganda because it's exactly what you intend to do?

[–] BravisJ 8 years ago

Edgy, cool, daring? It's disgusting to even think about that. I am anti-establishment. I'm not edgy, nor cool. A little daring, maybe. But I don't like propaganda that sets to tell only one side of the story. I like equality. But that said, that isn't the reason I don't believe in the Holocaust. It's because of all the things I've already stated in countless other threads, which I don't think I'll indulge any of that tonight.

But to think it's only to be nihilistically cool, that's not why I'm alive.

Denying an historical event doesn't mean approving it even if it indeed happened...

[–] stanbrown32 8 years ago

Obviously, no one is jailed for this in the United States, since our First Amendment protects even offensive, incorrect, and nonsensical views. Equally obvious, some European countries have outlawed this because it is always associated with neo-Nazi propaganda. After World War II, when democracy was restored in countries like Italy and West Germany, they sought to protect their democracy by criminalizing Nazi and Fascist propaganda.

[–] easyrhino 8 years ago

So it appears that anyone that questions or has any doubt about the official Holocaust story, they must be motivated solely by anti-Semitism!

Case closed end of story, no other reason accepted.

That sounds like fascism to me.

[–] stanbrown32 8 years ago

Why is it fascist? Anyone can explore this topic and examine the documents. Anyone can ask questions about why or how this happened. It is one of the most well documented events in history. You cannot say it didn't happen, as that denies reality. You might as well say there was no Second World War, or no Nazi seizure of power in Germany.

[–] pauliewalnuts-48096 8 years ago

Stan, if it's one of the most well documented events in history, then give me the name of one person to die in Auschwitz's alleged homicidal gas chamber. It shouldn't be so hard if there were one million cases and it's so well documented, eh? Of course I'm going to ask for proof when you give me a name, so make sure you give me a good one.

There is no more evidence for the holocaust than there is for witches. Both rely completely on alleged eyewitnesses and coerced confessions.

There is zero physical/documentary evidence of homicidal gassings at Auschwitz. Anyone who takes the time to research it will soon realise that.

[–] ZortMcFleen 8 years ago

Poor Paulie. He shouts his pre-emptive intent to wave all evidence away and then wonders why nobody bothers to give him any.

Here's a name for you, Paulie: Yehoodi Roodi Toodi. From the little shtetl of Whydoncha, in the land of Goforkyourselvia.

[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

So it appears that anyone that questions or has any doubt about the official Holocaust story, they must be motivated solely by anti-Semitism!

It goes to motivation. Why would someone deny such an event and claim it's "inflated to make the Zionists look bad"? You may think you don't "dislike jews" but your premise of an international conspiracy of massive proportions speaks for itself.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

[–] easyrhino 8 years ago

It doesn't even begin to make sense.

Why Germany, fighting a war on two fronts, desperate for fuel and materiel of every sort, would bother to load millions of Jews on railroad cars and transport them hundreds, even thousands, of miles to concentration camps. Camps built specifically to house them, where they would be fed, clothed, even tattooed so they could be inventoried...just to kill them.

Right.

[–] quintessenz-80437 8 years ago

If you think that it's all a "hoax", that all the evidence documented since decades was "faked" and that there really IS a massive conspiracy of forgers, instructors and torturers it would be up to you to substantiate your claim and prove the existence of this conspiracy by providing an amount of hard evidence similar to that which exists in support of the factuality of the Shoah.

Anything else – arguments like "it just makes no sense to me" or "why are there hate speech laws" or perceived "patterns" like "the number 6 million was used consistently before" – would just be empty rhetoric and hogwash.

The hoax of the Holocaust – where is the evidence?
http://www.phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/~jamie/the-hoax.shtml

[–] ZortMcFleen 8 years ago

Yeah, that's really the key point. No judge is going to overturn a verdict just because some random net guy says "this case doesn't pass my ill-defined subjective sniff test based on my excruciatingly limited knowledge of it."

[–] leeputnam1 8 years ago

Here is the issue. Holocaust deniers (if that is what you want to call them) can throw just as many documents and proof to match the documents provided by the believers claiming proof. In fact new documents show up all the time so it only seems fair to have the option to do our own research and be free to ask questions.

[–] xvzz02 8 years ago

"Holocaust deniers can throw just as many documents and proof to match the documents"

ORLY?

Look at http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/23/world/gallery/auschwitz-liberation/
No doubt made by Jewish conspirators using Photoshop in 1945.

Deniers got nothing.

[–] ZortMcFleen 8 years ago

Exactly.

Robert Jan van Pelt edited his Auschwitz testimony (and more) into a very, very good book called "The Case for Auschwitz." After you've been through it, you'll hold those who wave their hands around saying "there's no documentary evidence" in the contempt they deserve.

And who do deniers have? Morons, crackpots, carnival barkers.

[–] ZortMcFleen 8 years ago

Here is the issue. Holocaust deniers (if that is what you want to call them) can throw just as many documents and proof to match the documents provided by the believers claiming proof.

Not even close. They've sure got you fooled, don't they.

[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

It doesn't even begin to make sense.

Now you're looking for motivations making sense behind senseless killing?

How about this?
There was political motivations. Jews were blamed for the degrading humiliation and economic situation in Germany.

You're answering your own question. They needed money. They abducted millions of Jews and took everything they had. Then drove them away because they didn't want anyone knowing what was done, and discarded them like useless trash because they didn't want to and couldn't afford to house and feed them.

But really it's like wondering why Ted Bundy would abduct, rape and kill women when there was such a risk of getting caught? He was cute, he could just have dated them and slept with them. Why take the risk?

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

[–] xvzz02 8 years ago

There are very few countries one can get "thrown in jail" for denying the Holocaust.

Actually, I only know of one, Germany, myself.

This movie is about libel, and the person in danger of being "thrown in jail" was not the denier, but the person who called him out.

Certainly in the US you can spout any kind of racist nonsense you like, just look at Breitbart, soon to have a home in the White House -- whose name is never been more appropriate. You can read any number of explicitly Nazi books and even newspapers in the US. David Duke's rants are on Youtube and have been for years. They say "see them before they get censored", but no one is censoring them. That's just another conspiracy lie they like to tell.