'No one is trying to take away your guns!' - Miss Sloane (2016) Discussion

[–] otter68 8 years ago

"England and Australia are considerably safer now that they've outlawed guns."

FAR different cultures. Far different demographics. Apples and Oranges

"Free speech is not the same thing as HATE SPEECH"

Free speech is free speech. Hate speech is free speech. So is love speech!

"Actual communism has never really been tried."

Yes, it has been tried, and failed. It's been tried, but no country has ever successfully pulled it off. It succeeds in monastaries and convents.

"Climate change is threatening the world and we need to act NOW."

Go buy a Tesla. Use recycled material. Call for sanctions against countries that burn and chop down rainforests. The US, Japan, and Europe have all reduced their carbon footprings.

"Israel is an apartheid state."

No argument there.

"The USA is responsible for more acts of terror than any other country in the world."

Name some in the past 20 years.

"The biggest single reason Donald Trump was elected president: Racism."

Really? So the fact he got more of the African-American and Hispanic vote than Romney did in 2012 means nothing to you? Obama's highest ever popularty rates mean nothing? Most people vote for one reason: economics.

"Conservatives are sexist intolerant xenophobic homophobic Islamophobic racist and bigoted."

Liberals are racists. They just hide it better. Liberals spew more hatred towards people they disagree with than racists. They just don't do it as loud and don't get the attention. This quote from you proves it.

If you agree with all or even most of the above statements, have I got a movie for you. It's called MISS SLOANE.

"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." J.J. Rousseau

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[–] jaymzz 8 years ago

england and australia far different demographics? the orange monkey was right, he does well with the uneducated

'kill all kikes' is free speech, indeed, punishable by law and rightfully so

if u actually knew the definition of communism, u'd know it was never achieved! russia or china were never communist countries, they were & r socialist. i lived there in the 80s so i know

the US acts of terror r both direct & indirect; weaponizing countries to further agendas [iraq/iran war, israel/palestine conflict, wars in africa] is the same as an illegal invasion [war in iraq]

if trump got elected on his economic policies, then god help us [and i'm an atheist]

name a liberal who brought a bill to the congress restricting someone's rights

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[–] otter68 8 years ago

What percentage of England and Australian's population are non-European?

No, if I say "Kill all people who use the term 'hate speech,'" it's protect speech. If I threaten someone specific, that may be get me arrested. Michael Brown's dad called for a city to be burned to the ground and was never arrested.

Yes, most people vote on economic issues. It's not like the white working class voters who voted for Obama in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio etc who voted for Obama suddenly turned racist.

"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." J.J. Rousseau

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[–] gbzro58 8 years ago

name a liberal who brought a bill to the congress restricting someone's rights

Many Democrats including Al Gore's father were against the Civil Rights Act and liberals have been trying to restrict 1st and 2nd Amendment rights for a very long time.

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[–] cbnspanky2 8 years ago

Did you watch the film? Do you believe having to pass a background check before buying a gun is restrictive? Denying gays the right to marry until last year is denying rights. THATS what the right does. Had the right said gays have to take a class before they could marry, just like straight people, there would have been no denial of rights. The fact that the right wants to roll back Roe V Wade should give you some insight into regressiveism, I mean conservatism.

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[–] Alondro 8 years ago

Should we permit polygamy, then?

If 12 women want to marry one man, why is that outlawed!

LIFESTYLE CHOICE!!!! Isn't that your sort's rallying cry?

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

"Denying gays the right to marry until last year"??

You act like it was this lonnnnnng, drawn-out, nationally divisive struggle that dragged on and on for decades -- like women's suffrage and the abolition of slavery. But gay marriage wasn't even on the ballots until a couple of years ago.

Do you think John F Kennedy had anything to say about gay marriage? Do you think Jimmy Carter did? Do you think Bill Clinton did back in the nineties?

Give me a break. It wasn't even part of the national discussion back then.

Barack Obama was openly opposed to gay marriage as recently as 2008. So was Hillary Clinton, for that matter. So was just about every Democrat in the House and Senate.

As legislation goes, gay marriage was introduced and passed very VERY quickly, yet you act surprised that people who were opposed to it on Monday, didn't suddenly wake up being cool with it on Tuesday.

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[–] Getalis 8 years ago

name a liberal who brought a bill to the congress restricting someone's rights

Who introduced socialized Bongocare in the House?

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[–] fifthquartile 8 years ago

Otter68, I may not agree with everything you said, but if you are a conservative I must say I admire your ability to communicate. Most conservatives I talk to have witty comebacks like " you are a stupid idiot " any time you do not agree with them about anything. That basically is all they have in a way of rebuttal. You made some really good points and did so with straightforward logic and reason. You also did not just make stuff up or use your own set of facts. Kudos to you sir. Its nice to know there are conservatives out there that still like to think and respond intelligently. I wish the William F Buckley type conservatives would take the GOP back before it's too late. I may not agree with them on most things, but at least they made sense.

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[–] Alondro 8 years ago

And could we turn the Democratic Party back to the FDR and JFK days, rather than the spoiled masses who riot and/or hide in safe spaces when they lose?

The extremes of BOTH parties are absurd (and they make up the same percentages, if one cares to examine the statistical breakdowns) and need to be ignored. Giving them airtime only encourages their bad behavior.

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[–] fifthquartile 8 years ago

I would love to change the Democratic Party back to the FDR days. Because today's Democratic leadership has turned its back on the working class. I knew HRC would have a hard time when she was so Wall Street friendly and her husband supported and signed NAFTA. Sad when a fraud like Trump can get working class votes by saying the obvious, that free trade deals have stabbed American workers and American manufacturing in the back. Democrats used to be the party of the poor and the workers. They lost their identity trying to please the Wall Street banksters to get their money.

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

William F Buckley was very much in favor of the legalisation of most drugs. (Kind of a libertarian position for him to take, actually!)

He also favored lower taxes.... and no abortion except in cases where it endangered the health of the mother... and he favored a projection of American strength around the world... and more respect for police... and the idea that marriage should remain between a man and a woman... and welfare reform of the kind passed by Bill Clinton in the 1990s... and staunch support for Israel and an acknowledgement that Israel's neighbors would dearly love to wipe the Jewish state off the map.

Glad you think we need millions more Republicans like William F. Buckley!

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[–] fifthquartile 8 years ago

Like I said, I may not agree with Buckley on everything. But he made a sane coherent argument. We need at least two ( i think a lot more ) viable political parties. Buckley represented the conservative side very well. I am sure he would be appalled by some of the nutjob dialogue coming out of people that call themselves conservatives today.

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

Come on. If a 35-year-old clone of William F. Buckley came along today... I'm talking about a tweedy, cognac-sipping Yalie who believes in God, is adamantly pro life, and despises the very idea of gay marriage -- you don't think he'd be considered a "nut job" by the Left?

Please.

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[–] fifthquartile 8 years ago

I vote Democratic and I never considered Buckley a nut job. He seemed a little snobby, but he never seemed crazy. He made decent conservative counterpoints to the liberal side. And he actually talked to the other side, not just scream and call people names. You have to be able to be able to discuss political differences in a civil productive way where both sides are able to see the points of the other side. Right now there is very little of that and its causing a lot of problems.

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

While everything you've just said is true, you have decided to go "Big Picture" and talk in general terms instead of addressing the specifics of my post. Consider what I said about what would happen if a young version of William F. Buckley apprared on the scene today -- someone who held the IDENTICAL positions that William F. Buckley did -- including (sorry) an open opposition to abortion and gay marriage.

How much would you really, truly, genuinely respect such a person TODAY?

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[–] fifthquartile 8 years ago

I already respect people that are opposed to abortion. Actually I think people have every right to believe it's wrong and immoral. I think they have a right to try to get people to use abstinence or to influence them to not have an abortion. What I do not agree with is people that want to legislate their religious beliefs. Right now people have a right to choose wither way and to voice their support either way. I think that is what America is about. I think what you are saying is that I would attack someone who had conservative viewpoints. I may not agree with them. I may debate them. And we would probably end up choosing to agree to disagree. I prefer a world like in the 1980's when Reagan and Speaker Tip O'Neill would battle it out, then compromise to govern. Today it's all obstruction and no middle ground. And debating with people that call themselves conservatives consists of one side trying to express their views and the other side just calling them filthy names. They cannot even agree to a set of facts, they make up their own. It is not productive. I see Buckley as the type of conservative who would be able to debate his ideas by using logic and real facts without resorting to childish profanity.

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[–] gbzro58 8 years ago

All those statements are crazy but Israel is actually the definition of an apartheid state. If you're a Palestinian you don't have the same rights as a Jew. The same way as if you were black in South Africa you didn't have the same rights as a white person.

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

Man! The response to my original post is pretty scary! I've got people on the far left agreeing with most of what I wrote there, and people on the right agreeing with the Israel statement. (In other words, one thing the left and the right can all agree on... where they
allll come together... is that Israel is evil. Lovely)

So it's crazies to the left of me, crazies to the right of me, and onward into the valley of death go I.

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[–] cbnspanky2 8 years ago

And only YOUR opinion is the right one? I'm far left by the way.

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

All the statements I have quoted there are crazy. Every single one.

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[–] cbnspanky2 8 years ago

Oh and I believe in a two state solution.

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[–] fifthquartile 8 years ago

I do not agree on Israel being evil. I think it is insane that people attack Israel. If I was ever forced to live in the Middle East there is only one place I would want to go. That is Israel. Look at a map of the Middle East. OVer 90% of the land mass is Muslim. But this one tiny Jewish state is forced to give up land for peace ? Please. I got an idea. Why don't Muslims live in the 90% of the land they already control and leave that one tiny Jewish state of Israel alone ?
I also find it insane that white Americans are telling tiny Israel to give back land. Why don't white Americans give back the land it stole from the Native Americans ? Would it be ok for Native Americans to constantly terrorize and murder white Americans for stealing their land ?

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

I agree with you. But you and I are part of a rapidly dwindling minority.

Most of the West, including most secular Jews, believe that Israel is sitting on stolen land, that the Jews have no business having a country there, and that the region, and the world, would be much better off if the Jews would simply pull up stakes and move their little country someplace else.

You'd be surprised at the number of people who feel that way. But very few of them have the guts to actually express it. Even online.

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[–] nickm2 8 years ago

They gotta learn not to fck with God's Chosen People.

Why can't you prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

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[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

Why don't Muslims live in the 90% of the land they already control and leave that one tiny Jewish state of Israel alone ?

Because being a Muslim has nothing to do with where your home is. If you are a Catholic and aliens just landed in your country and said "hey, we were there first a long time ago so now you can go *beep* off and live in Italy, since... they're catholics, right?", you would have a few things to say I imagine.

I'm not condoning terrorism. On top of being cruel and unjustified, it's also inefficient. No amount of random killing of uninvolved civilians is going to win anyone's war.

Still, saying that Israel is a victim and Palestinians should just move to Iran because they're also Muslims (hint: they don't speak the same language) is ridiculous and small minded

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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[–] nickm2 8 years ago

Don't worry...I am the right wingiest guy I know--AND I support Israel. Nevertheless there lotsa people who kinda have a problem with rich left wing or right wing Jews so...there you have it.

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

You're saying that underneath most people's opposition to Israel and their tendency to call it an illegitimate country and an apartheid state (even though it is by far the most humane country in the region) is a strong element of Jew hatred.

To which I say, "Duh."

Most people on a gut, primal, instinctive level --simply don't like Jews.

And I say this as a Jew -- one who is very proud of his cultural heritage.

It's a sick prejudice. But that "chosen people" line in the Good Book certainly hasn't helped matters. It's been misunderstood for centuries. People think it was God playing favorites or something. ("I love YOU GUYS more than the rest!") Which is nuts.

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[–] fifthquartile 8 years ago

Well as a Christian ( albeit a sinful one ) I think the Jews/Israelites being the chosen people just meant that it was one of their seed that would be used for the Messiah to be born. And through him all people now can be saved. That is what the book of Romans clearly states. But it also states that God still dearly loves the Jewish people. All nationalities should be thankful for the Jews as we would all be doomed without them. I think the hatred of Jews is Satanic in origin. He hates them just for the reasons I have explained. Who could not tell that Hitler was a disciple of Satan trying to destroy the Jews ? Anyone that hates Jews and Israel is letting evil take over their souls.

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

Well, the "through them, the Messiah would be born" interpretation makes sense, because that interpretation doesn't have God playing favorites. That is, it doesn't have God seeming to favor one tribe of people above all others.

But not everyone sees it the way you do. For many, the "chosen people" line appears to be God saying, "I -- the Lord Jehovah -- prefer the Jews to everybody else. Deal with it!"

And that (twisted) interpretation has led to much resentment, and the slaughter of many Jews.

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[–] nickm2 8 years ago

well having sifted thru my daughter's bible study classes for several years (kiddie bibles) it seems the Jews had a tendency to 'backslide' in their faith-falling back on paganism or idolatry or whatnot (communism? Mamon?); a recurring theme was for Jehovah to periodically allow the enemies of the Jews to brutally punish them by exile, enslavement etc...

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

So even though an historical embrace of Communism and Mammon was not unique to the Jewish people, a group that represents but a tiny fraction of the world's population (China and Soviet Russia, for example, had a total population of 1.5 billion people and the Jews made up -- at most -- .0001 percent of that)... even though the Jews are an infinitesimal minority and BILLIONS of other people around the world embraced Communism and Mammon...

-- God still saw fit to single out the Jews for punishment??

Did your daughter's bible study class happen to say why, exactly, He would be doing that??

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[–] nickm2 8 years ago

And reward them...when they behave....so it seems sometimes! So much bad stuff happens to them but they keep on keepin' on

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

Fine but you still haven't answered my question: Namely, did your daughter's Bible study class ever find out why, exactly, God -- who created everyone and everything -- would take such a singular interest in the Jews, punishing them whenever they screw up (Communism, Mammon, etc) and "rewarding" them when they "behave" (Heaven only knows what that means).

According to you and your daughter's class, God seems uniquely preoccupied with the Jews. Any idea as to why?

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[–] nickm2 8 years ago

Easy...in the old testament, The Jews are the only believers in The One True God. All the other desert denizens are pagan or worship multiple deities;

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

So God is holding me and my fellow Jews responsible for the behavior of our desert-dwelling ancestors some 3000 years ago?

That sounds suspiciously like blood guilt to me. Not fair at all. In fact it's vile.

I believe in God, but the dude you're describing sounds like a jerk.

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[–] nickm2 8 years ago

When did I say you were 'responsible' for what your ancestors did 3K years ago? Stop with the blood guilt accusation.

It sounds like you are making not so veiled accusations of anti semitism.

And anyway, we're in the new testament now-a NEW covenant.

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

When did I say you were 'responsible" for what your ancestors did 3K years ago?]

Just now. I asked you why God treats Jews differently than he treats other groups, and you answered that it's because of the way the Jews behaved back in Old Testament times. You said the Jews back then were the only ones who believed in the One True God, while other tribes had multiple Gods.

Therefore, you're saying that the way a tribe behaved 3000 years ago is affecting God's treatment of that tribe today.

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[–] nickm2 8 years ago

my head....

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

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[–] dbreckman-130-794160 8 years ago

I'm just wondering what you find so baffling and headache-inducing about what filmklassik said just now. Weren't all of his points logical?

Let's try a simple analogy.

Let's say you're a high school student. You're in the 12th grade. You're a good, well behaved, conscientious student...

-- but one day you find yourself called in to the principal's office. Uh oh!

The principal sits you down and announces, gravely, that you're being expelled from the school.

Shocked, you ask him why and he replies, "For cheating on the SATs."

Your jaw hits the floor. You protest that you never cheated on the SATs.

"I know," the principal says. "But your father did, 25 years ago. And he was summarily punished for it. And now we're punishing you."

"So let me get this straight," you say. "I'm a good student…"

"You're a great student," the principal says. "Honest. Hard working..."

"But I'm being punished for something my father did 25 years ago."

"Now you're catching on," the principal says.

"But what does my father's behavior have to do with me?"

The principal just stares at you in confusion.

"After all," you continue, "is it fair that I should be penalized for something one of my relatives did before I was even born?"

The principal is rubbing his temples now.

"My head..." he says.

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[–] fifthquartile 8 years ago

I guess you bring up religion or politics and an argument always happens. But just to add to this conversation, yes it seems unfair but it is true. The sins of the father are passed down to the son. I mean if you believe in the Bible we all suffer from the fatal disease of sin passed down from Adam and Eve. That all goes back to the Hebrew ritual of passover. Which is why the Messiah had to die. The perfect sinless lamb of God sacrificed so that he took the punishment we all deserved. Sort of like the cure for a disease. But just like any cure, we have to agree to accept it. The flu vaccine cannot help you unless you agree to get the injection. I know I do not deserve it but I am not too proud to ask for that cure.

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[–] nickm2 8 years ago

ok ok ok...I have parse my words & split the hairs: God revealed himself to Abraham, a nomadic moon worshiper; God said His (Abraham's) descendants would be His (God's ) chosen people & would number more than the stars in the sky. I guess they were originally known as the Israelites and/or Hebrews...

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

What if, just for fun, we all agreed that Jews in the 21st Century shouldn't have to suffer for the poor behavior of their desert-dwelling ancestors, and that if God feels even an itzy-bitzy teeny-weeny yellow polka dot bikini smidgen of resentment toward them simply because their forefathers pissed him off around 2000 years ago... well, if God feels that way about it, he's being unfair, and a bit of a jerk.

Can we at least agree on that?

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[–] nickm2 8 years ago

I dunno;

But I do think ENVY is major cause of anti Semitism due to....Jewish Families & Communities tend to stress education & encourage personal success-so as a group they tend to excel--Like Indians in Uganda, Koreans in Los Angeles & Chinese immigrant in South East Asia do.

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

Nick, just now you said THIS:

I do think ENVY is a major cause of anti-semitism...

Yet two months ago, on December 16, you said THIS:

Well, having sifted thru my daughter's bible study classes for several years (kiddie bibles) it seems the Jews had a tendency to 'backslide' in their faith, falling back on paganism or idolatry or whatnot (communism? Mamon?); a recurring theme was for Jehovah to periodically allow the enemies of the Jews to brutally punish them by exile, enslavement etc...

So which is it Nick -- Envy? Or an angry and embittered Jehovah allowing the enemies of the Jews to punish them?

(And why do I feel a lazy and weasily "Both" coming on?)

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[–] nickm2 8 years ago

There's Jehovah's righteous wrath...and then there are people being scumbags

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

But which is it though, Nick, the former or the latter?

And if it's the former -- "Jehovah's righteous wrath" -- what the hell is so "righteous" about Jehovah being "wrathful" toward a bloodline??

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[–] tetrahex 8 years ago

As Negan says...half your stuff and all your guns

Negan: You see, Rick, whatever you do, no matter what, you don't mess with the new world order. And the new world order is this, and it's really very simple, so, even if you're stupid, which you may very well be, you can understand it. You ready? Here goes. Pay attention.
[holds his bat up to Rick's head]
Negan: Give me your *beep* or I will kill you. Today was career day. We invested in a lot, so you would know who I am and what I can do. You work for me now. You have *beep* you give it to me. That's your job. Now, I know that is a mighty big, nasty pill to swallow, but swallow it you most certainly will. You ruled the roost. You built something. You thought you were safe. I get it. But the word is out. You are not safe. Not even close. In fact, you are pegged, more pegged if you don't do what I want. And what I want is half your *beep* And if that's too much, you can make, find, or steal more, and it'll even out sooner or later. This is your way of life now. The more you fight back, the harder it will be. So, if someone... knocks on your door... you let us in. We own that door. You try to stop us and we will knock it down. You understand?
[Negan holds up his ear and leans closer into the horrified Rick]
Negan: What? No answer?

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[–] jharmon12 8 years ago

Socialist Democrats in the USA embody Neegan. They want our guns and they want half our stuff. Neegan must be a dog whistle to the audience to show them what real socialism is like.

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[–] cheneys 8 years ago

kick jews out of your country and you will suffer economically for it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3484434/Kicking-Medieval-Jews-Europe-damaged-economy-effects-seen-TODAY-Regions-expelled-lower-GDP-didn-t.html

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

As twisted a reason as I've ever heard for not giving in to prejudice. ("Listen, I agree that Jews are filthy and conniving and clannish and vile -- but kicking 'em out will cost us MONEY. I say let 'em stay!")

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[–] iconicmedia 8 years ago

LOL

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