MovieChat Forums > Café Society (2016) Discussion > Just watch The Apartment

Just watch The Apartment


Why does it seem to me that no one has noticed this is a bad rip off of a a great film - The Apartment?!

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I have seen the Apartment well over 20 times. One of my all time favorites. But comparing Care Society to the Apartmnet??? Sorry I do not see it nor agree with it at all.

~~the coins in the jar are for charity,~~
~~the coins in the tray are for sharing~~

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There are many nods to The Apartment in Cafe Society:

The love triangles between C. C. Baxter, Fran Kubelik and Jeff Sheldrake, and between Bobby, Vonnie and Phil Stern are very similar.
Bobby finds out about Phil and Vonnie when he sees the poem that Vonnie gifted Phil in Phil's office whilst they are talking; and C. C. Baxter finds out about Fran and Jeff when he sees Fran's broken mirror in Jeff's office whilst they are talking.
Vonnie stands Bobby up for their date, like Fran stands C. C. Baxter up. Bobby and Vonnie were going to make spaghetti and meatballs, Fran and C do make spaghetti and meatballs in The Apartment (and use the tennis racquet as a strainer! - love that bit).
Vonnie and Phil meet in dark bars and restaurants, much like Fran and Jeff.
The final scene of The Apartment is set in a bar as they bring in the new year with "Old Lang Syne", and guess what?! So is the final scene of Cafe Society!
I could go on...

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OK, very good👍👍👍

if you were to go on I would be interestd

~~the coins in the jar are for charity,~~
~~the coins in the tray are for sharing~~

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Ha! Ok, there are a few more. Some more tenuous or speculative than others:

Both Phil and Vonnie mention Billy Wilder. Or at least I think they do - I'm not sure whether it's deliberately ambiguous. Phil does so when talking to Vonnie across the counter at the cloakroom where she's working. Vonnie does so when talking to Bobby later in the film in Holywood when he goes there to scope out the possibility of another club.

At the start of the restaurant/bar scene when Phil tells Vonnie he can't leave his wife Karen, the focus is on the piano, much like it is in the similar scene in The Apartment when Jeff and Fran meet to discuss their relationship. I can't help thinking the music is very similar too. The track "Manhattan" is used many times in Cafe Society - in central park, and at the very end of the film notably. It's not the same track as the theme from The Apartment, but are they in the same key? I don't know, but one just always reminds me of the other somehow. Or at least, when I first heard that track "Manhattan" in Cafe Society, I thought, "That's in The Apartment!" That one might be a bit speculative.

Bobby's character in general - his hand movements, gestures, naivety, tactlessness, charm, wit - is very similar to Baxter. Although, of course, Jack Lemmon is about a million times better at it than Jesse Eisenberg.

The next few are maybe overly speculative:

The table Bobby sets for dinner, which Vonnie stands him up for is very similar to the same table Baxter sets for spaghetti meatballs. Two places, two candles, bottle of wine.

Bobby throws Candy out of his flat when she thought she was there to have sex, Baxter does the same to "The Blonde" (That's IMDB's name by the way, not mine). Jackets in hand and all.

When Vonnie comes to Bobby's room after her discussion with Phil, she says she never wants to fall in love again. Fran says something similar when she is recovering in Baxter's bed.

When Phil makes it seem to Vonnie that he's left Karen, but then says that, actually, he's going to do it straight after their chat, he is acting similarly to Jeff.

Woody Allen uses the word 'mensch' in his narration. Dr. Dreyfurr uses (and has to explain) the same word with Baxter.

The hats, streamers, and piano band at the New Year celebrations are very similar in both films.


I think that's about it!



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Well, compliments for posting that extensive list. :)

Nevertheless...

Why does it seem to me that no one has noticed this is a bad rip off of a a great film - The Apartment?!


Thinks get copied and reused all the time. This seems to be the number one returning subject where it comes to film, music, etc. Everything is derivative of another (at least one) work of art. It doesn't bother me at all. "Bad" is subjective; something being a ripoff doesn't make it bad in itself, and I think "ripoff" is a word that is used far too often. Sure, something is a ripoff if it is a shameless copy that adds nothing original itself, but in my experience, that is almost never the case. You can't accuse Woody Allen or the actors of not putting in any original input into this film, even with the long list you posted.

So, in reference to your topic title:

Just watch The Apartment


My personal opinion would be: why not watch both?
I love all films, and finding the references like the ones you listed, entertains me more than it annoys me.

-- Greetings, RagingR2

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It's basically the same plot.

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Many points are well taken! But, aren't there a few huge differences, most importantly that Baxter and Fran end up together, whereas Bobbie and Vonnie don't? And, of somewhat lesser importance, Steve Carrell's character is actually honorable, whereas McMurray's is most definitely not. In fact, those may be reason enough for the movie - a riff on The Apartment with a different ending.

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You might be right there, about The Apartment with a different ending. I thought similar.

I wish Woody Allen had made that intention (if, indeed, that was his intention) clearer. As it is, with the subtle and implicit nods, it seems more a rip-off than an ode. That's just my opinion, though. It's not a bad film either! It's just that The Apartment is my favourite film, and I'm being, probably overly, critical for that reason.

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I understand - "The Apartment" is one of the greats. But, as you can tell by the initial reactions of some of the other commenters, without an analogue to the apartment itself, that is without a geographical nexus for the action, the similarities to "The Apartment" aren't obvious, and slid right under at least my radar. So, as a way or redeeming Café Society, imagine how inappropriate it would feel if Bobby and Vonnie had suddenly run from their parties to go to each other, ala Baxter and Fran, or even Harry and Sally in their movie. Wouldn't have worked. Somehow, Woody set this one up right for the ending he gave us. Anything else would seem contrived. The structure was very "Apartment"-esque, but somehow there is an underlying current that flows in a different direction.

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Another huge difference is that Fran K. attempts to kill herself (and goes a fair way towards succeeding), which Vonnie certainly does not. Then too, Vonnie actually does end up having the opportunity to marry the married guy with whom she's canoodling, unlike Fran. The stakes feel so much higher in THE APARTMENT, and I certainly care much more about the sympathetic characters in it than I do about almost any of those in CAFE SOCIETY.



Just make a movie that makes me care, one way or another. I'm open.

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The Apartment is a far superior film, that's for sure.

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No question about it, you're quite right.






Just make a movie that makes me care, one way or another. I'm open.

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Billy Wilder's The Apartment was a knock off and a total re-imagination of a plot point in Brief Encounter. Some guy had an apartment that might be available to another guy (Trevor Howard) for a tryst. Wilder is on the record about this, was always interested in the guy who was letting his apartment or flat, be used for this purpose: what was HIS life like, what were HIS interests etc. Woody Allen knows all about this story, and a lot of other stories. The fact that this kind of detail makes it into one of his films is pretty meaningless. Does Café Society work or not on its own terms, not whether it seems like something that might have been dome before. BTW same thing was said about Match Point's similarities to A Place in the Sun. Yes there were similarities, but Woody's tale was its own reality and worked in its own way.

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I didn't know that story. It's a good one and thanks!
I should probably have made the thread title and first post less condescending, I admit.
I'm not saying there's no originality in Cafe Society at all. I was, however, struck by the number of subtle similarities. That these are so subtle, and that there are so many, could mean any number of things. It certainly makes it fun finding them. I just wish that, somewhere, Allen had made it clearer that he was referencing, because if one doesn't cite a reference, that's plagiarism. That's all I meant, really.

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Fair enough

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With all due respect to all the intelligent posts in the thread... When hasn't Woody borrowed liberally? Half his oeuvre references specific films or the mise en scene duplicates his favorite auteurs of whom he is an epigone. The unkinder among us call these ripoffs, the more charitably inclined hommages, lol.

Woody wasn't satisfied making his wildly creative if slapdash earlier films, which included some fairly original near-masterpieces like Sleeper (even there the slapstick recalled Keaton and Sennett). Love and Death was the first major foreshadowing of his career "plagiaristic" arc, borrowing heavily from Russian literature.

He then gave us two unquestioned masterworks, Annie Hall and Manhattan. The latter IMHO is a sublime achievement and the best thing he ever did. And very original, even with the occasional echoes of others' work. Arguably there were three more quintessentially "serious" Allen films that showcased his unique artistic concerns: Hannah and her Sisters (despite the Chekhov nod), Crimes & Misdemeanors and Husbands and Wives. There's one utter Pirandellian delight, the criminally underappreciated Purple Rose of Cairo. And several other pleasurable pieces like Zelig and Bullets over Broadway (the latter a fond pastiche, as is Radio Days).

Everything else? The horrifically overrated, hilariously solemn Interiors (Bergman). The underrated Stardust Memories (Woody at his bitterest in this Fellini imitation filled with savage insight into the cult of celebrity, far more so than his later film of that name). Another Bergman misfire (Midsummer Night's Sex Comedy). The truly God-awful UFA/German Expressionist embarrassment Shadows & Fog. More gloomy Bergmanesque studies like September and Another Woman (crossed with 50s kitchen sink realism).

Frankly, while I appreciate the incidental pleasures of some later Allen, I feel he's been creatively stagnant for two decades (Everybody Says I Love You is gorgeously shot and features some deliriously lovely scenes; Match Point is suspenseful and taut though as someone pointed out a clone of Place in the Sun -- also borrowing heavily from Hitchcock, specifically Dial M and Strangers on a Train; Blue Jasmine is elevated by two ferocious powerhouse performances; Midnight in Paris is too cutesy by half but appealing).

Which is a long-winded way of writing that every film buff knows Woody borrows. The question is whether or not in retrospect he'll be considered a great artist in his own right, given that stylistically he morphs into some of his influences (far more disturbing from a creative standpoint than merely mimicking plot points). I'd argue that since he does put his own uniquely urban neurotic spin on everything, he is. Just wildly uneven.

Phew.

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Watched it on a flight a week or so ago and this struck me right away.

The Apartment is my favourite movie but it didn't particularly bother me, felt like more of an homage than a rip-off.
Though this was an average movie, at best.


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