MovieChat Forums > 3 Generations (2016) Discussion > About the controversy (cis playing trans...

About the controversy (cis playing trans)

posted 9 years ago by Stiles5339
22 replies | jump to latest

I honestly do not get what this controversy is all about.

Cis men and cis women (please forgive me if I am using the term incorrectly) transition to becoming their true gender because they do not feel like they are in the right body. Prior to the transition, the person is at a stage where they are still a cis and don't want to be a cis because it is not correct to who they are. Thus, pre-transition transgender people despite being emotionally (biologically to a degree?) inaccurate are cis gendered.

The controversy is about not having a trans person play the role of Ray. However, this film takes place pre-transition and we might even not see the full transition in the end because the story is centered around getting his father's signature and most likely that will be the defining moment and climax of the film. So, 'About Ray' is about everything that happens prior to the transition itself. Prior to the transition the incorrect gender is cis rather than trans. So, why would is it more accurate for a trans person to play what at that point (despite being emotionally incorrect) is a cis character?

I can completely understand the arguments of a cis playing a trans character after the transition. But this isn't 'Boy Meets Girl' (2014) about someone who has already transitioned. It's about everything that happens pre-transition when the person was cis and trying to transition into their correct gender.

For argument's sake, for those who have a problem with this let's say Elle Fanning in reality wants to transition into becoming a man. Are you saying Elle would be more accurate to playing the role of someone pre-transition after the transition rather than while they are at the same stage? If so, please explain why trans Elle is more accurate to play pre-trans than pre-trans Elle.

How is a cis playing someone who is a cis at that point pre-transition inaccurate? Again please forgive me if I am using that term inaccurately as I am using it to state the physical gender pre-transition.

[–] hsojab 9 years ago

The terms 'cis' and 'trans' are not inherently linked to the body, so if a person is trans they are trans whether a) they have realised yet and b) whether they have begun to transition. Transitioning is not what makes somebody trans.

The problem currently is due to the limited availability of roles for trans actors. They are likely to be overlooked for any other part, and are generally under represented.

Another main concern is the perpetuation of the belief that trans people are just like 'cis people in drag' or that trans people 'are cis before they transition'. This can lead to confusion or misunderstandings such as the ones in your post.

(Also, it IS incorrect to refer to 'a cis' or 'a trans'; the way you previously referred to 'a trans person' etc would be more correct.)

Feel free to ask for clarification on any point :)

[–] pmfg_pan 9 years ago

Another main concern is the perpetuation of the belief that trans people are just like 'cis people in drag' or that trans people 'are cis before they transition'. This can lead to confusion or misunderstandings such as the ones in your post.

Of course I totally understand the concern about the lack of job opportunities for trans actors. That's an obvious problem that needs to be fixed.

But I strongly disagree with this point of casting cis actors "perpetuating" the belief that trans people are just "cis people in drag" or "cis before they transition". These type of misconceptions should be addressed directly in the story. People are aware about the concept of acting, so I don't that they would make that confusion just because of a casting decision.

[–] hsojab 9 years ago

I would say the misunderstandings in the original post are a clear example of somebody believing that trans people are cis before they transition.

A cis actor playing the part clearly adds to that confusion, as they are saying it is accurate for a cis person to play what is technically a 'cis character'.

[–] pmfg_pan 9 years ago

I would say the misunderstandings in the original post are a clear example of somebody believing that trans people are cis before they transition.

The misunderstadings of the opening post have to do with terminology misconceptions. The user clearly doesn't understand the exact meaning of the word "cisgender".

But to clear that error up you have to go read somewhere the exact definition of the word "cisgender". Casting decisions like this one have nothing to do with it. If they would cast a pre-transition trans boy for this role it wouldn't change a thing about some people not knowing what "cisgender" means.

[–] Stiles5339 9 years ago

I am still confused though, pre-transition the person looks like they are physically a male or physically a female prior to the change. So why wouldn't Elle theoretically fit into this pre-mold (for lack of a better term)? If it isn't about what stage of the transition the person is at, what does it come down to? Basically it just seems like those complaining would stop if Elle came out and said she was going to transition to become a man after the film wrapped or those against Eddie (Danish Girl) would stop if he came out and said he was going to become a woman. Would I be correct in making that assumption?

[–] pmfg_pan 9 years ago

I am still confused though, pre-transition the person looks like they are physically a male or physically a female prior to the change. So why wouldn't Elle theoretically fit into this pre-mold (for lack of a better term)? If it isn't about what stage of the transition the person is at, what does it come down to?

Yeah, I basically agree with the points you are trying to make. But you just have to be more careful with the terminologies you use to express what you mean. A cisgender person is basically someone who agrees with the gender he or she has been assigned at birth. Therefore a pre-transitioned trans male was never cisgender.

I think the problem that trans people have with this is that they are constantly misgendered by society and obviously feel offended by it. So if a cis actress gets cast for the role of a trans boy, they think that people are basically implying that the character is just a "girl playing disguise". Because they have to deal with these misconceptions on a daily basis. But this is not necessarily the case of such a casting decision. People know the difference between an actor and a character. So I think the most important thing is that these misconceptions get addressed directly in the story.

[–] pajamadancer 9 years ago

I never heard "trans people are cis people in drag" all the transsexuals I've ever met stopped using the term after the operation and many never used it before the operation it was something tacked onto them by outsiders. Meaning they may have been born male but always considered themselves female period. There was no transition from male to female because they were always female. The operation was not a transition for them is was an operation like breast reduction or knee replacement surgery. But TBF the transsexual I know of of an older generation before the internet made people so obsessive over labels.

[–] HelloMyNameIsMrBurns 9 years ago

What's a cis? I have never seen this term before.

[–] bakerstreetdozen 9 years ago

Cisgender basically means that your gender identity matches the gender you were born with.

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] bakerstreetdozen 9 years ago

The hell is an SJW? 

--
'Save me, Barry!'

[–] patrick_bateman_90029 9 years ago

Social Justice Warrior

[–] C.S.Wood 8 years ago

The hell is an SJW?

A derogatory used to describe someone who believes in equal opportunities for the disenfranchised.

But that aside, I wasn't aware there was controversy over the casting of the movie though I can't say I'm all that surprised. This is one of those situations where the people making the movie were only going to cast someone with name recognition. I can only think of maybe 2 transgender actors that I've seen in more than one thing and they're trans women.

Now that I think about it, I can't name a single trans male actor.

And as others have pointed out, this story chronicles the character's pre-transformation so it wouldn't be quite right to get a trans actor who's already transitioned to play a pre-transition character. It's like trying to get an adult to play a pre-teen, not that it can't be done but you'd need a HUGE pool of actors to find someone to pull it off believably.

Although I'm not trans or anything so my word means very little, but I'd like to see trans actors play roles that don't emphasize their gender. Like, Jason Bourne needs to contact a hacker friend they just happen to be played by a trans person and there is no mention of the person being trans.

There still needs to be stories that DO focus on the trans experience, but it would just be nice to see trans actors in roles where they're just regular people and no one is being jerks to them for being trans.

Revenge is the most important meal of the day.

[–] zznoory 9 years ago

it may surprise your tiny little brain to learn that these terms are much older than you think. But I'm not surprised when a conservative is that dumb to not look anything up or care about other human beings.

[–] hppg 9 years ago

I find it hilarious people are whinging over this.

Firstly yes, she isn't yet having the physical hormone therapy for transitioning and the film is about obtaining that. So a physical female body is correct.

Secondly, does it really matter about the gender identity of the actor/actress? Transgendered people are approx 0.2% of the population. When we're dealing with such small numbers, how can people argue they're "underrepresented"? Really? 0.2% of actors is a very small number.

Except for a few low-budget indies starring young children where they want a fresh unknown, the majority of casting decisions are to do with the name and economic value someone will bring. How many transgendered 17 year old movie stars are there? There are probably only a handful of 17 year olds acting in the world at the moment who studios would trust to carry a whole movie. Given simple statistics, it's not entirely surprising that none of them are transgendered. If there was a famous transgender 17 year old movie star, should they ONLY play transgendered characters? What if they play cis characters? Would that be confusing and misrepresenting?

It's ACTING. People play different genders, gay, straight, different races, different ages, different backgrounds, whatever ALL THE TIME. If we picked people with the same background as the character for each role we would be bored, it wouldn't be acting and there would be no movie stars.

I've seen a lot of criticism about casting Elle and I think it's just stupid.

Now will someone come and yell at me for using the wrong pronouns and expressing microaggressions?

[–] agluck-1 8 years ago

you're right acting is just make believe... people have been overreacting to casting decisions for long time now heading towards mob censorship...but secondly is not a word...

[–] pajamadancer 9 years ago

Actually the real problem is that it pigeon whole transsexual actors because if you only allows transsexuals to play transsexuals than cis people should by the same logic only be allowed to play cis people. And also it is very patronizing to go, "Hey we've got a trans character for you to play! Isn't that great." When most actors want to play a variety of roles and people. You are actually limiting transsexual people by insisting ONLY THEY can play transsexuals.

[–] Mr_DWAVID 9 years ago

I hate this *beep*ìng generation. Always need something to whine about.

[–] maximum-ride211 9 years ago

I know this thread's a little old, but I wanted to add my two cents...

People (specifically trans people) have different issues with the movie. Personally, I can understand why it might seem confusing that trans people don't want a cis person playing a trans person. If you are not transgender, then you're likely not going to understand things like gender dysphoria and the discrimination trans people face. I like the idea of having a trans character, and while it would be nice to have a trans actor, it is unlikely at this point. My personal problem with the movie is that it perpetuates the "tragic LGBT" trope that occurs in movies and literature.

The base problem with this thread is saying that a trans person is "becomes" another gender. Trans people have always been the gender they are, they were just incorrectly assigned at birth. And not all trans people even transition. Not all trans people experience gender dysphoria. Plus, there are genders besides male and female that people can identify as. The thing about this movie is that while it does have a trans character, it does not give cisgender people a clear idea of what being trans is like. This movie is a cliche, created for cisgender people, by cisgender people. Really, trans people just want actual representation in films without being made into a "tragic transgender."

[–] zznoory 9 years ago

tbh it's kind of stupid controversy because whether people like it or not, transgender people usually do have the features of the sex they're assigned as at birth, especially pre-transition. This is why they often find a cis actor to play the role, like a girl to play a transboy. And not everyone has a twin of the opposite gender like Laverne Cox. Want a transgender actor? Cool, maybe there's more than we know, maybe these people searching out actors aren't doing a very good job or simply want a known name and face to have the movie get more attention and money. Want a real boy to play a transgender boy? Not gonna happen usually unless he's androgynous af. Still, that's not the mentality of people in movie making.

[–] Korando6 9 years ago

People in a nutshell IT'S A MOVIE!!!! Get over it jerks ?