Hi!
I was curious to see if anyone thinks that Tyrell actually loves Mr. Robot, rather than Elliot, and that was why he was crying because he was afraid he'd lose Mr. Robot?
But, why was everyone so willing to hurt Elliot when they realized that he was no longer Mr. Robot? Its so strange - poor Elliot.
curious to see if anyone thinks that Tyrell actually loves Mr. Robot, rather than Elliot
why was everyone so willing to hurt Elliot
Ah! *smacks forehead*
I meant, why is everyone willing to hurt the original Elliot? I mean, they could've just clued him in all along? (when they realized he wasn't acting the same).
No, they couldn't have. We're not even sure who knows of his issues and who doesn't. Tyrell, I believe, doesn't know he is operating within two personalities to even bring that up. Also, the Elliot we know is massively opposed to such terrorism and destruction and all that. One of the main points of this season between him and Mr. Robot was that Mr. Robot was keeping stage 2 and everything that goes with it a secret for as long as he could.
Like he says to Elliot in the finale, "I showed you only what you were able to handle," or something along those lines. Even while he was at the warehouse Mr. Robot was attempting to distract him from interfering. They didn't want Elliot clued into it lest he react...well, like he did.
Thank you for answering my question Dreamers_x_Disease!
shareNo problem, I hope it helped ya a little! If not, well, I tried haha
shareLol! I've been wishing that MAYBE someone realized that Elliot had two sepperate personalities, but if horses were wishes...
shareHah, well after this incident I suppose more people will become hip to it, or at least, know how unstable he really is. Now, the question is, once they know/realize will they just exploit it?
shareMost likely exploit it - as they seem to care about their own agendas of destroying system more than Elliot's wellbeing, (SHRUGS).
Also.... I'm not sure why my previous answer was repeated, O<O.
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Do you think he overheard Elliot talking out loud to Mr. Robot like he has in the past?
shareWho is to say he is the original Elliot? How would Tryrell to know anyway?
A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist - Sir Humphrey Appleby
I am somewhat bothered or perhaps intrigued (we'll see) about the "love him" line. Without going down the sexual, platonic, admiration, etc. rabbit hole...I find it a little jarring that such a close relationship exists at all. The show has not really given us much evidence for how a tight relationship could actually form. A few meetings here and there, and that is about it.
...except for the arcade visit and Elliot's missing three days that is...
I feel that for the "love him" line to work in any real shape or form, Esmail has to show us those three days. And has to demonstrate a bonding of some kind.
I find it a little jarring that such a close relationship exists at all. The show has not really given us much evidence for how a tight relationship could actually form. A few meetings here and there, and that is about it.
Tyrell: "I've been waiting outside your apartment until she left. Didn't want anyone to know I'm here. I know you're behind it, all of it, fsociety, the server, Colby, Allsafe. You're the one constant in a sea of variables. Elliot... now, I don't know what your grand plan is, but I need to, and you're going to tell me. Two days ago I strangled a woman to death just with my hands. That's a strange sensation. Something so tremendous done by something so simple. The first ten seconds were... uncomfortable, a feeling of limbo, but then your muscles tense, and she struggles and fights, but it almost disappears in the background along with everything else in the world. At that moment it's just you and absolute power, nothing else. That moment stayed with me. I thought I'd feel guilty for being a murderer, but... I don't. I feel wonder."
"Well, now it's you and me. I've always told you we'd end up working together, Elliot."
I agree with the both of you that starting where they started to now there has been a big shift between their dynamic, a shift that we don't seem to have been privy to. I'm okay with them not filling in the missing pieces within the plot, but it feels like we should at least get that for the characters and their relationships otherwise it's a complete guess...or asking us to make that shift for them and take them at their word that this is just how it is between them now. And after being conditioned to not necessarily always take them at their word I think that's sort of a big ask.
Tyrell, Angela, they've both come a long way, but we're not exactly sure why. I understand Angela's conversation with Whitrose can't be revealed yet as it plays into the greater story being told here, but some people had a problem even with her going from s1 Angela to the ice queen we got throughout s2. They're making these big character leaps without really telling us why or how. I can buy Tyrell worshiping Elliot's plans and needing his skills and leadership to give him purpose, but just how did it reach such depths that Tyrell is professing his love for him and being something of a fanatic about them being Gods. Yes, they had daddy issues, yes they have complimentary agendas (well Tyrell and Mr. Robot do), but we haven't dug deep enough into those things or had enough build up between them to really feel that connection, I don't think. I'd love to see some more development there because it felt like it went from 0-60 without much in between.
I don't mind these kind of changed (or perhaps evolved is a better word) characterizations and I'm willing to go along with them with what they've given, but it'd be nice to understand just how they got to that point. We already have so much else going on, I'm not sure if this kind of thing should be a mystery, ya know?
Oh well, we still aren't clear on those damn 3 days still so maybe when that's filled in (if they ever fill it in haha) it'll all make better sense.
The 3 day gap is really a seminal event too. It led to Mr. Robot lying to Elliot about them having killed Tyrell. It led to Joanna ordering the murder (by Sutherland) of the parking lot attendant. It's where the video of Elliot jumping, as opposed to being pushed, off the rail at Coney Island (who recorded that...Tyrell?) was found and presented. And of course, whatever close relationship Elliot and Tyrell formed.
It's a huge hole and that's why I think Esmail will address it in season 3. Maybe even the first episode as a flashback from perhaps a semi-conscious Elliot?
Not to mention explaining Angela getting hired by the Dark Army as the new human resources assistant manager. :D
I sure hope we get a 2-hour premier next year. We are going to need it...LOL
True, it is a very important amount of time unaccounted for. I was pretty surprised they didn't get to it in the finale, but I suppose I had underestimated its importance then. If they're still withholding that information, than obviously something even more major than I was suspecting happened. It holds all the secrets to everything you pointed out, including what we've been talking about between Elliot and Tyrell (and probably even more).
I'm not sure when we'll get the answers for this one. I'd hope next season, but if it is as paramount as we're saying maybe it has to do with the series as a whole and might not get it till the end. As it is now, I'd imagine we'll get, at least, some of it next time around. Our imaginations are worse than what they'll give us at this point, probably lol because my mind reels wondering what could have been that bad or that monumental that Mr. Robot is doing all these back flips to keep Elliot from it.
Right.
It also makes me wonder why Elliot won't take his medication to get rid of Mr. Robot once and for all? Elliot would no longer have to figure out what the back flips are, and he could possibly figure out what he has done in the past that is so bad.
Also! Very true about our imagination bits! I'm looking forward towards seeing what they show in Season 3! I can't imagine any of them being pleased about Elliot's personality taking over when they have Mr. Robot to help them with their plans.
I'm fuzzy on his medication. I don't remember what he was on or why he stopped taking it or anything like that. Maybe you or someone else who knows better can refresh me! Obviously, he chose to make Morphine/Suboxone his medication instead. I do remember he said he used to fill out phony prescriptions, but that got hard to keep up with or whatever...probably easier for him to do the other drugs, and faster acting and perhaps a better high. Again, I'm unclear about all that. I do know it's not uncommon for those who require meds to end up going outside legal means to supply themselves and that some people don't like taking meds because of how it affects them.
Anyways, he's had outbursts before we met him so I don't think they kept Mr. Robot away, maybe just at bay a little bit. But that was still inside of him and would act out from time to time (think him as a kid in the museum, him trashing the servers at his previous jobs). Plus, remember, he did attempt to use Adderall to rid of Mr. Robot and we all saw how that went so...not always a clear cut answer with that.
I can't imagine any of them being pleased about Elliot's personality taking over when they have Mr. Robot to help them with their plans.It's going to be really interesting. They're all pretty much now on Whiteroses and possibly Mr. Robot's agenda. It'll be like the world against Elliot, even more so haha! That's going to be rough, I'm not sure how they're going to treat him or what they'll do. They claim to love him, but something tells me that's a very different love from what he'd expect, at least from Angela. Ya know, they're all on board with this greater plan so to them that's what's good and best for them and Elliot, but obviously he's not down for that...unless they convince him like Whiterose convinced Angela. Will we see them be sympathetic towards his whole personality disorder or will they just exploit that and try to get Mr. Robot to come out more since he's the one compliant with the plan?
I'm not sure which medication he was taking - I just remember him throwing up medication because of Mr. Robot, and then retaking the pills because he wanted to get rid of him.
I'm also pretty sure that they won't be sympathetic (Angela has become the ice queen - not good), but I'm 50/50 on Tryrell trying to be sympathetic, but failing because he wants something else.
Also yes about things turning worse for Elliot! I could imagine him trying to shove Mr. Robot out more, and then Mr. Robot takes over his body completely. Everyone will be sorry when that happens - because as soon as their adventure is over, they'll see that there are TWO sides of the story.
Ah, so you meant exclusively his use of Adderall. Yeah, well at this point I think taking anything will prove to be fruitless for Elliot because Mr. Robot would probably just keep forcing it out of him or trying to and that's just...exhausting to the point of why bother doing that to yourself over and over? Ya know? Maybe that's why Elliot stopped taking whatever medication he was on prior to us meeting him, because the small part that was Mr. Robot in him decided to get him to do that only he didn't know then. Who knows.
I think Angela, although she's become what she has, still does love Elliot and is still on his side. But what side is that? To her that side is working with Whiterose/DA towards whatever it is they're ultimately working on. She's in the know, and she has given that her belief, and so to her helping could very well be getting Elliot on board with that stuff. In our eyes it may look like betrayal, but in hers it'll look like the right thing to do for herself and for him.
Tyrell, well, I think he's in the Mr. Robot mentality of doing whatever it takes to reach the goal. He loves Elliot, sure, but he's already proven he's okay with killing him or hurting him if need be to serve the plan as best he can. So, above all else, the plan is what will win out every time, so it seems thus far. I imagine he and Angela trying to persuade and beg Elliot to come over to their side of things....and when he doesn't (assuming he keeps up his convictions) then they'll start to implore shadier tactics and now Elliot will be more aware of this and perhaps try to turn his own tables on them....maybe even creating an internal war of sorts. We'll see, it's all just so f_cked at this point haha even more than it has been!
Totes!
Sam whatever his name (the director) said that their bond first started as soon as they met (which was the real Elliot) and it makes me wonder, really. It seems like Elliot shouldn't be with anyone on this show, despite what people really ship.
You're also super right about everything IMO! I kinda like the fact that Elliot talks to us like we're really here, and I so wish that things will go better for him in season 4, as we all know things are going up creek next season.
>.<
It is the same "love" as the one professed several times by Vera. That is, the love of a psychopath, which is perhaps projected self-love. Also, again as Vera, Tyrell loves Elliot's genial mind and his ability to do crime at large scale through tech.
It's the love that Commodus in Gladiator declares for his father (whom he kills), sister (terrorizes) or plebeians (mistreats).
I think you've hit the most rational explanation. A psychopath can "love" but it's always in service of him or herself. Tyrell reminds me of the character of Mary Morstan in "Sherlock". Though I don't recall the actors or showrunners calling her a psychopath, many viewers have. She shoots Sherlock in cold blood and he only survives by a miracle or freak medical phenomenon. Her motives for marrying Watson are questionable, since she lets him fall in love with a false identity; she is really a rogue operative and assassin! We have yet to find out what her real motives are but they have nothing to do with what normal people call love.
Remember that Tyrell is not married to someone good and selfless, as is Mary, but someone possibly more of a psychopath and a savage than he is!
I followed all the rules...and you followed none of them. And they all loved you more.
I don't think Tyrell distinguishes one from the other, as others said, he doesn't know there are two personalities. He liked Elliot right from the start, so I'd say he loves both (whatever 'love' means here), but Mr. Robot's plans obviously play a big part in how he's feeling towards Elliot.
However, it sounded as if he really means it, the question is what kind of love exactly. I don't really think this is about sex, but just the thought of them in a relationship, both with their seriously fucked mental states, makes me wish we had a tv show just about their everyday life as a couple. That would be priceless. :-D
This is what Sam Esmail says about it in an interview ( http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/mr-robot-season-2-finale-sam-esmail-elliot-shot-tyrell-alive-1201867301/ ):
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Q: Tyrell sounds terrified, though, when he calls Angela. Why was he so scared?
S.E.: Tyrell loves Elliot. The interesting thing about Tyrell and Elliot is that they have this bond, this connection. That’s what we set up in that first scene, actually the first time they met in the pilot. They have this relationship where they connect on this much deeper level. Tyrell’s set up as this villain but they’re not in this antagonistic back and forth. They actually have this weird deep bond. That was set up in that first scene in Coney Island when Tyrell tells this story about his father and not wanting to be like him. That resonates with Elliot, and Elliot at the time was Mr. Robot. The way we’ve presented Elliot’s real dad in the past, he was nothing like the Mr. Robot we see in Elliot’s split personality. And it’s a rebellion against everything Elliot’s dad was — a guy who was too weak to fight back against everything Evil Corp was. And Mr. Robot, the side of Elliot’s personality, connected with Tyrell’s rebellion against his father, the fathers they felt were too weak for them. There’s a real bond that formed there. In the end, when Tyrell shot him, he didn’t want to shoot him. He felt like this was a partnership that was on the verge of victory that they were going to complete this Stage Two. And Elliot was going back on it. When he shot him, he was literally in tears. That conversation when he tells Angela that he loves him, it’s true. From Tyrell’s perspective, he really does loves this person. He feels that he gives him the fulfillment that he’s always been looking for in his life.
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Apparently S. Esmail doesn't separate Elliot from Mr. Robot when it comes to Tyrell's feelings. They also are genuine and have been set up from the beginning, which makes me curious to see where he'll go with this.