MovieChat Forums > Avengers: Endgame (2019) Discussion > How do Souls work in the MCU multiverse?

How do Souls work in the MCU multiverse?

posted 6 years ago by FootOfDavros (8172)
4 replies | jump to latest

Doctor Strange foresaw all these possible futures with only one successful one.

However Endgame expanded this to the concept of "many worlds" and distinct universes being formed based on each decision made / action taken. So in some of these universes the heroes will take the wrong decisions and die. However we can assume they'd all be true to their characters and trying their absolute best.

When it comes to what we see at the end of the movie though, that is only the one outcome which worked out for the best as far as Doctor Strange saw it. However clearly this was not the best possible future for Thanos! Therefore would Thanos' soul travel down a different path, to a different universe, where he'd still be alive?

And vice versa can we assume that our heroes' souls continued down the path we see at the end of Endgame as they survive longer on this path?

[–] FootOfDavros (8172) 6 years ago

Another way of considering this fascinating conundrum is - Why should we feel any sense of accomplishment for this particular group of Avengers at the end?

Sure, this particular instance has defeated Thanos but millions of other versions of these same people coming from the same common route (i.e. the point Strange looks at all possible futures) have died. So what was really "won"?

[–] FilmBuff (7235) 6 years ago

Another way to look at it, and probably more in line with what was explained in the film:

Dr. Strange looked into the future of his own timeline, seeing how different actions affected the outcome, and found that only one set of actions led to a victory. It's possible that the Avengers of every timeline could also experience such a victory by mirroring those actions. It was never stated that Dr. Strange visited alternate timelines and saw various outcomes, only that he looked at all possible outcomes of his own timeline and found only one way for them to win.

In fact, what you describe would not make sense per the rules of time given by the film. If it were the way you say, then the heroes would have no choice in the matter. Whatever timeline they were in would be set, and the outcome a foregone conclusion, and unless they were in the lucky 14,000,065th timeline, defeat was inevitable. The fact that they could act a certain way to win means that the Avengers of every timeline could do likewise and end up with a positive outcome.

[–] FootOfDavros (8172) 6 years ago

Interesting. And yes, you are correct in that "no choice in the matter" comment. But that was really what I was getting at - say some nutcase with a gun is going to pull it on the next passerby, who happens to be you. Either he does it and kills you or just maybe a fly - at that very instance - lands on his nose putting him off and you survive, walking past unaware of anything. Two divergent universes exist, as per the many words interpretation, yet in one you are dead with "no choice in the matter".

It's possible that the Avengers of every timeline could also experience such a victory by mirroring those actions

I'm not really too sure what you mean here. As far as I'm aware these various "timelines" Strange sees are the results of these divergences. e.g. The Avengers on any timeline where Strange refuses Thanos the time stone are dead. There is no branched path left open to them on which they can win.

[–] FilmBuff (7235) 6 years ago

I think we're each seeing it in a valid way, as we haven't been given a definitive answer in the films, at least not yet, so its guesswork. What you describe makes perfect sense if one accepts the existence of a multiverse: for every possible action by every living being, the universe splits into two directions. The fly lands on his nose, the fly doesn't land on his nose. Split. Two new universes. I'm alive in one, dead in the other. A split second later on a far off planet some oher action splits it again. Infinite universes.

What I mean with the remark you quoted is that one isn't locked into an outcome in any particular universe. I don't think the Time Stone gave Dr. Strange the ability to visit another universe. I believe it only gave him the ability to look forward in time in his own universe. The Ancient One alluded to this in the Dr. Strange film, too, that the Time Stone allows one to view various outcomes in one's own future. So Strange looked at what needed to be done to win, then orchestrated things in order to make that happen.

The notion that 14 million+ universes exist, and Thanos wins in all but one is false. Thanos exists in other timelines, but can be defeated every time if the Avengers there do what they did here. And perhaps he can be defeated pre-snap if they take action before Iron Man et al end up on Titan.

Finally, as far as we know in the MCU there are only a few different universes. We have not been told with certainty that there IS a multiverse. Only that traveling through time creates splits in the timelines at the point of the travel, so at this point there are only a few, splitting off at the various points where the Avengers time-traveled in Endgame.