MovieChat Forums > Avengers: Endgame (2019) Discussion > ***EXTREME_SPOILERS*** - if we tak...

***EXTREME_SPOILERS*** - if we take things to the logical conclusion, then....


I thought of something interesting today about the end of Avengers: Endgame... if you take everything they said about time travel in the movie to it's logical conclusion, then, that should mean that even though they showed thanos defeated (and vanished) by tony stark using the stones at the end, since that timeline in which that happened is the same one in which the old cap is present , then that should mean that it is not the original timeline that they are showing us at the end, but it is the branch timeline that cap created when he chose to stay in the past at some unclear time, maybe whatever year he was frozen in the ice. and if it's the new branch timeline, then that means, although thanos probably was still defeated in the original / prime timeline, there is still the possibility he was defeated another way. interesting..

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Its too complicated for anyone to work out.

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No it's not, and I've tried explaining this to everyone but people just don't want to listen.

The stones did not need to be returned, there was no magic by returning them. They do not affect the timeline they are in, except for the fact that those stones are no longer in those dimensions.

Every stone was taken from a different alternate universe. They were not taken from the same one.

Steve traveled to an alternate universe to live with Peggy, not the same as any of the others they traveled to. He then used Pym particles to travel back to his own universe when he was old, to say goodbye.

It is not time travel, it is universe travel. It is the multiverse. The Ancient One's dialogue was poorly written, it was confusing to the audience. What she should have said is taking the stone out of her universe will Doom them because she cannot use it to protect the realm. That's it. It does not skew her timeline except when you compare it to Steve's

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yeh but most would think steve just lived out his life with her until she dies and then eventually sat on the bench to meet up with bucky & co. not living out his life with her until she dies - then a grieving/time traveling/universe hopping 100y old steve going back to when he left

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I agree with this other than the stones not needing to be returned. I mean, yes, I think that's actually technically correct in terms of multiverse theory (The Ancient One's universe exists with the timestone before Banner taking it creates a branch were it's gone) but her dialogue (though wrong) was explicit that that her universe would be knackered with it gone - which it would. Cap bringing it back there just creates yet another universe where it does exist again but that's not the path the Ancient One who chats to Bruce would be on.

That aside, I'm still not sure about them going down the multiverse route because the logical conclusion is that we're not really seeing an ending with any stakes where they've defeated the odds, we're just being shown the particular instance where they did...

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the Russo brothers said in an interview that Cap aged in an alternate timeline and then jumped back to the "main/prime" timeline (probably using the quantum suit/bracelet). What's funny is imagining how old Cap had to hide and sneak over to the bench without being seen and wait to be discovered for the dramatic reveal effect.

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While I prefer the Russos' explanation, the writers think Steve aged in the prime dimension, since returning the stones merged all the timelines back into one.

So it's up to our own interpretation.

Like how Ridley Scott says Deckard's a replicant, while Harrison Ford says he's not.

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Ford is just an actor, his opinion doesn’t count.

Doesn’t the Blade Runner sequel confirm he is a replicant?

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The Blade Runner sequel has him aging without being "special" like Rachel was (vs. dying young like the other replicants) so it's definitely not confirmed

Though I'd agree the actor's opinion matters less than the director's.* The director also outranks the writer, in my view. I just don't think it's an absolute "trump card" is all.

Also, Ridley Scott only started making that claim after he’d assembled his “final director’s cut”


* “Usual Suspects” is a good example - each of the main actors thought he was Keyser Soze. Byrne reportedly threw a fit at the premiere

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I hate Russo brothers explanation because it doesn't explain anything. Using the bracelet/suit only afford someone to travel back in time, in their CURRENT timeline, it has no function to jump to another dimension/timeline. The way the movie describes and show us, the time traveler avengers can only jump back to their original timeline because of the machine, the machine is connected to the bracelet, somehow. So when the old cap is shown on the bench, we know he doesn't go through the machine.

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Using the bracelet/suit only afford someone to travel back in time, in their CURRENT timeline, it has no function to jump to another dimension/timeline.


When you jump back in time you jump from a physical location (your backyard say) and you jump from a specific time (May 14, 2019 at 6:30 pm local time).

You jump backwards into your own history BUT at that moment a new timeline is created. The old timeline still exists because without it you would not have been able to get to your backyard at 6:30pm local time on May 14th to jump back in the first place.

The quantum suit then lets you go back to where and when you jumped from (in this case your backyard at 6:30pm local time).

The only problem with the film is that Cap should have come back through the gate but in this case the dramatic affect of his appearing on the bench won out. Just like in the post credit scene for Captain Marvel, it shows her meeting Black Widow, Cap and War Machine in the Avengers base but in the film it does not have this scene. For dramatic affect they cut this scene from the film so we would first see her as she approached Tony in the ship.

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The suit is similar to ant-man suit, it allows them to shrink to quantum size, the bracelet is the one that guides them so they can traverse the timeline safely. Or at least that's how I understand it.

With the bracelet, they can go back in time (in their timeline), but if after that they go forward in time, they only go forward on that timeline, not their original timeline. To be able to return to their timeline, they need some kind of tether, which is what the machine is. Which is why when Thanos copy the bracelet technology, they can only come to the main timeline through the machine (don't ask me how he manages to shrink that mothership, another loophole).

Without any kind of tether, the bracelet wouldn't be able to know where to jump to get back to their original timeline.

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That’s heavy.


But certainly interesting.

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