Dr. Strange saw 1 wining scenario in 14m 605 possible scenarios, yes. But, how did he know that outcome would happen? I mean, none of the Avengers knew which outcome he had in mind, or any plan at all. And he died before he could tell tony. So, I think he must have enacted some sort of spell to cause that future to play out going forward from that point. Your thoughts?
shareSaving Tony was part of that plan.
Presumably, in most futures, Tony died after being stabbed by Thanos who would then turn his attention to the other heroes on Titan, kill them, and eventually get the Time Stone. From there, he goes to Earth, gets the Mind Stone, and wipes out half the universe. When Ant Man comes back with ideas about time travel, the team has no one to really make it work. We see that Banner ultimately screws it up. Strange knew he needed to keep Tony alive to make time travel possible.
As AP noted above the plan began when Thanos accepted his offer to save Tony.
Strange further explains in Endgame that if you know the future it won't happen. What this is alluding to is if you know your future then you will have the option to do something else thus changing it. But if you don't know it then everything will happen as planned. Strange was not bound by the "can't change your future" rules that everyone else was bound to. And the reason he was not bound to those rules was because he could see his future using the time stone.
I hear you. Choices are one thing. But the rat stepping on the right buttons was one distinct future. That had to be controlled by Strange.
sharePerhaps, but it's also possible that in multiple timelines, that rat still finds his way to Scott's van regardless of whether or not Tony Stark came back.
shareMy thoughts are similar. Strange saw the outcome in which they won, and would not have had the confidence in his actions if there were a chance the rat didn't trigger the apparatus. I assume he saw 2 outcomes, 1 a win, 1 a loss, but whatever the number, if the victory were contingent upon any act other than relinquishing the Time Stone, I believe he'd have held onto it and hoped there were additional chances to win in the 14,000,606+ realities he didn't have time to view.
shareBut the Russos confirmed that the rat stepped on the buttons in this one outcome.
shareI was not aware of that, but knowing a rat will bring Ant Man back in their future would still prompt Strange to sacrifice the Time Stone for Tony's life.
shareBut it might have been a squirrel ten years down the road :)
shareThe unspoken suggestion, based on the reaction of the Ancient One to Hulk's revelation that Strange willingly surrendered the stone, was that he only did that in one, or perhaps two, of the 14,000,605 scenarios. Her reaction, coupled with Strange's body language in the moments before Stark's snap suggest to me that there were likely 2 scenarios in which Strange relinquished the stone of his own accord. In one, perhaps Tony rushed in too soon as was thwarted, in the other Tony waited a beat, entered the fray, and saved the day. By exchanging the Time Stone for Stark's life, Strange changed the odds from 0 in 14,000,603 to 1 in 2, which is an obvious choice to make. It also makes his "we're in the endgame" comment valid, as if if it were 100% he'd have said something along the lines of "we've won," as an endgame suggests there is still a chance for each side to win.
shareI'm finding all this really fascinating. I don't know quite what you mean by saying in one outcome, Tony rushed in too soon. Are you talking about during the events of the final battle in Endgame?
shareWhen Doctor Strange give up the Time Stone, it seemed clear that he only did so with the knowledge that he was guaranteeing his team a chance at victory. That suggests to me that he knew relinquishing it would get him to the point where he is resurrected by Hulk's snap. If he had to rely on actions by others while he was dead, I don't think he would have done it. Notice that during the final battle, there is a moment where he holds his finger up as if telling Tony "wait for it, wait for it," before motioning Tony to move in. My guess, and this is entirely a guess, is that there is an alternate outcome where Tony acts too soon and they lose.
shareI need to re-watch this movie. I missed that part.
shareI think that's a really cool interpretation, but I still don't see Strange saying, "wait for it" at that moment.
He was holding up one finger, saying, "this is it ... the ONE way we can win." It looked like a "wait for it" signal because the moment was slowed down for dramatic reasons.
Tony's reaction was very telling, too. He looked resigned, almost sad. I'll have to wait for the digital download, but I'd bet it's the very same face he made in "Iron Man" when he realized Yinsen never intended to escape. He realizes, now, that he's Yinsen.
I'm obviously reading a LOT into one gesture, and your interpretation's as valid as mine. It just seemed to me that Strange had to keep the plan secret so Tony wouldn't have time to think too hard about it, and try to concoct an alternate plan (which would necessarily fail).
THat's the saddest part to me ... that Strange saved Tony on Titan knowing full well that Tony would later die to save them all.
Hmmm, thats a thought provoking answer.
share