MovieChat Forums > Avengers: Endgame (2019) Discussion > I just realized why Marvel changes White...

I just realized why Marvel changes White male superheroes sex and/or race.

posted 6 years ago by whynotwriteme (7817)
21 replies | jump to latest

I posted this in another thread, but it will probably get lost, so...

Sure, we are in a new era where many races and sexes/genders etc. want superheroes to identify with. Why don't they just create brand new Black or female superheroes instead of altering White male heroes? Because all the new, original black and female superheroes are a flop. Nobody wants to see them. The appeal of such characters has been overestimated. They feel they HAVE to have black and female heroes, but they have to steal established white male superheroes' identities to have any hope of success with the character.

[–] movienchill31 (225) 6 years ago

I'm not a rocket scientist or anything but since the movies are loosely based on the comics and in the comics Cap does hand over the shield to Sam/Falcon instead of Buckey has more to do with it than them being racists and catering to Black heroes. Not only that but Sam is the most qualified and obvious choice over Buckey for the simple fact that Buckey was missing for years and during that time Cap formed an even stronger bond with Sam. Plus Sam was never compromised and never killed anyone. Buckey was and did.

[–] whynotwriteme (7817) 6 years ago

How about Nick Fury, Captain Marvel, Valkyrie etc. etc.

And what do you want to bet that in a few years we see Tony Stark's daughter or Pepper Potts in theaters as "Iron Woman"?

[–] AP (5295) 6 years ago

The first female Captain Marvel appeared in 1981 (and was black). Carol Danvers herself has been around since the 70's and she changed her name to Captain Marvel years before the movie ever went into production.

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 6 years ago

Not only what AP said about Captain Marvel, but the comic version of Nick Fury was changed before the movies released as well.

[–] whynotwriteme (7817) 6 years ago

What I said still holds true for the comics. They didn't create new characters to represent blacks and women, just altered the existing ones so they could ride on the established audience.

[–] ultravioletx (10237) 6 years ago

They changed Heimdall to be a black man and Lawson to be a woman. They are two deep cuts in the comics but the MCU managed to get two stalwart actors Idris Elba and Annette Bening to play those deep cuts so it was worth it.

[–] ultravioletx (10237) 6 years ago

Yes. And the comics even made the 90s Ultimate Nick Fury to resemble Sam Jackson. Not attempting to get Sam Jackson to play the role would have been a sin.

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1372) 6 years ago

Did you mean to respond to this thread and not another because your comment has nothing to do with who CA gave the shield to. Bringing up Sam could relate to the topic if comic Sam was white. I never read the comics is Sam white?

[–] movienchill31 (225) 6 years ago

Yes I did as this poster has posted in several other threads about his disdain of Cap handing over his shield to Sam. He even mentioned it in the original post if you even bothered to read it.

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1372) 6 years ago

OP is only about switching out races and genders of the original comic characters.

[–] movienchill31 (225) 6 years ago

And yet you failed to read again lol. OP mentioned he posted in several threads. Go and read them and then you will see why I responded the way I responded smh

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1372) 6 years ago

Oh.....you mean threads that AREN'T THIS ACTUAL THREAD.....oh, ok.
That is a "reasonable" thing to expect.
You've expected us to read every thread this guy's ever written and to use THIS thread to reply to THOSE OTHER threads. Ignore this thread's ACTUAL subject and instead reply to some alternate subject he talked about last month in some other thread.
Yeah....I'll get right on that.

[–] movienchill31 (225) 6 years ago

Typical response of a person who fails to read but yeah GET RIGHT ON IT!!! The post is word for word of what he is said in other threads hence his opening line of mentioning it in other threads and will probably get lost. The only thing he left out was mentioning Cap handing over the shield to his black friend instead of his white friend. But by all means continue to NOT READ. Don't mind me LOL

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1372) 6 years ago

Dude.
You just won't let this go.

Here is the OP's post I'm copying and pasting it:

"I posted this in another thread, but it will probably get lost, so...

Sure, we are in a new era where many races and sexes/genders etc. want superheroes to identify with. Why don't they just create brand new Black or female superheroes instead of altering White male heroes? Because all the new, original black and female superheroes are a flop. Nobody wants to see them. The appeal of such characters has been overestimated. They feel they HAVE to have black and female heroes, but they have to steal established white male superheroes' identities to have any hope of success with the character. "

Now you keep saying "can't read"
Well, I've read it. It does NOT saying anything about him disagreeing with the shield being given to Sam. Maybe he did say that IN ANOTHER THREAD as he mentions posting in another thread. But in THIS thread the topic is ONLY about changing the race/gender of existing comic book characters instead of creating new characters that are black or women.

Your entire response ignores all of that and discusses giving the shield to Sam instead of Bucky. Maybe he did talk about that in another thread but he didn't mention that topic at all in this thread.

Now, since you two apparently have a history of discussing this topic you just wanted to pick up that same discussion here too. That's fine. Me NOT READING has nothing to do with that.

He didn't mention it in the original post and I did read it so your relentless "if you bother to read" "those who don't read" crap is just stupid. Drop it since it doesn't apply. Your "He even mentioned it in the original post if you even bothered to read it." is false. He mentions nothing about the shield going to Sam not Bucky in the original thread.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the OP put that in there initially....then edited his post and took it out. It isn't there now.

[–] sokar (2098) 6 years ago

I think he is more talking about actual straight swaps not passing the torch and mantle. Heimdal or Nick Fury (yes the were changed in the comics before movie but still holds true). White characters that were changed. Personaly i have no issue with it when it works. I think the main issue with some is you would never see it the other way, you wouldn't see female characters or black characaters changed to a white male but it regularly happens the other way.

For example one of the worst being Thor now being a woman. Thor is not a mantle that can be passed along like Batman or Captain America, that his is name taken from norse mthology but they did it anyway to rapturous hate and if you believe the rumours they will be bringing that version to the MCU. You think people have an issue with Captain Marvel (which again was a man before being changed to a woman) wait till that is released lol.

It is lazy writing, take a popular male character and swap gender and make it out to be progressive, diverse, inclusive. No it is just bad writing. Personally if i was a female actress i would rather play an original character not something that was just swapped to fit with todays #metoo agenda. But that is just my opinion, i will probably be called sexist.

[–] Galactus03 (4406) 6 years ago

I agree. There is nothing at wrong with representing woman or race. But not the heavy handed way it is happening.....look at shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[–] ultravioletx (10237) 6 years ago

They typically do it with deep cuts and not main characters though. They seem to get pretty good actors to play those deep cut characters so it ends up being worth it.

Though keep in mind they did change the Ancient One from Asian to white. Yes Tilda Swinton is indeed a woman but she was chosen because they wanted the Ancient One to look genderless.

[–] actionkamen (23176) 6 years ago

It's obviously to avoid controversy in China if they use a Tibetan for the Ancient One.

[–] ultravioletx (10237) 6 years ago

There would have been no controversy to make him Nepalese.

[–] actionkamen (23176) 6 years ago

That's what happened to Michelle Rodriguez.

[–] TheAdlerian (2092) 6 years ago

That results in an accidental racist thing called "tokenism" and comics are famous for it.

It's where you insert a black, etc character into a story, just to have a black character in the story. That's a form of what's now called "virtue signaling".

It's crazy because it's an insult on so many levels. Now we have "black Thor" and he will be around for awhile then we go to white Thor again. So, the writers are saying "See we made Thor black, because black people!".

That's tokenism.

It's a huge insult to black people. Also, only having black and white characters is an insult to other races. The media is obsessed with black people for some bizarre reason and ignores everyone else.