MovieChat Forums > Avengers: Endgame (2019) Discussion > Captain Marvel's reactions in Special Lo...

Captain Marvel's reactions in Special Look with the Avengers

posted 6 years ago by NorrinRad (5470)
16 replies | jump to latest

Well it didn't take long for YouTube to over react AGAIN to the appearance of Carol Danvers in that scene.

"Oh, she is sooooo Gawd Damn arrogant!"
"My god she is awfully cocky!"
"Jesus, she's sooo annoying!"
"She's ruined Endgame for me!"
"I hope Thanos destroys that beeyotch!"

Funny thing is that the stance of CM harkens back to Thor and Captain Rogers in their own movies and their own attitudes of over confidence and bravado.

In Captain America the First Avenger Captain Rogers' plan was to march right into the Red Skull's final but heavily fortified fortress. He seemingly went in alone and confronted the Red Skull and HYDRA as a one-man army.

Thor impulsively (and arrogantly) decided to invade Jotunheim with a few of his friends (The Warriors Three + Loki) to seek revenge and to teach the Ice Giants a lesson.

Both heroes were super confident with Thor being more arrogant but Steve being a bit cocky. Steve's plan worked but Thor's plan failed, which is probably why Thor said, "I like this one"! Because she reminded him of his younger self.

I think the scene has more to it and of course one of the flaws of Carol Danvers is her over confidence and her cockiness. But why would the other Avengers just go in with such a direct plan?

With that said, I just don't understand the projected hate at CM by some and the desire to see her severely humbled?! Did we really want to see Thor humbled on Jotunheim or did we want to see him unleashing and showing off his full power-set?

Cap got the chance to smugly say, "I'm just a kid from Brooklyn" right to the Red Skull's face and everybody cheered or smiled.

Most think that Captain Marvel hasn't earned the "Right" to have such a moment or that her moment would be at the expense of the rest of the Avengers who have lost so much at this point.

Well we will see how this pays off for Carol Danvers and that scene but most want her to have some type of comeuppance just for being there.

That's funny to me.

Carol Danvers didn't write the lines or direct herself in that scene. Why the backlash to her character and Brie Larsen??

[–] AP (5295) 6 years ago

I get your message, but I think you have the character arcs wrong for Cap and Thor.

Thor was arrogant but the entire plot of the first movie was that he needed to display humility. This is why Odin banished him and set the plot in motion. It wasn't until he had a moment of self sacrifice that he was deemed worthy of wielding Mjolnir.

As for Cap, he's probably the most humble of the original Avengers except for maybe Black Widow. Him saying he's "just a kid from Brooklyn," was a statement of his humility, not arrogance.

A better comparison would be Tony Stark. His arrogance is more prominent and part of his appeal.

[–] NorrinRad (5470) 6 years ago

I'm only referring to the view of the characters out of context to the overall story arc. At the moment Thor ventures off to Jotunheim we don't know he is to be humbled by Odin regardless of how his foray would have turned out. It is after he returns to Asgard that the audience also sees and knows that Thor needs to be humbled in order to be a King and not just a warrior.

As a warrior Thor would have gained bona-fides, as a King-to-be Loki knew Thor would be punished. The audience though doesn't or didn't dislike Thor for his actions though, I don't think so. But maybe some did.

Captain Rogers has no such character arc regardless of how his story progresses. As a soldier Captain Rogers is far from humble and is quite confident. He is viewed that way and has been consistent over years and years of storytelling and we know his origin story. No one knows who Carol Danvers is or if she too is uber-confident.

And you are right, which reminded me of Tony Stark in the Avengers. Tony arrogantly does what Carol appears to want to do. Tony jumps off the Quinjet stating his plan is to "ATTACK"! The thing is that audiences didn't rush to jump on Tony or want to see him turned into scrap parts.

I'm not saying that Steve was arrogant by our POV because we know Steve and yes as compared to the Red Skull, who is indeed arrogant, Steve is humble. Nonetheless Steve was cocky and confident in his abilities knowing full well the stakes.

[–] AP (5295) 6 years ago

Ah, I see.

[–] FFNogoodnik (778) 6 years ago

The thing is that audiences didn't rush to jump on Tony or want to see him turned into scrap parts.

No they did not but they also did not rush to praise him for it and call anyone that did not like the scene a man baby.

This is related to my response to your original post. There is a segment of the audience (consisting of both men and women) that can not see anything that Captain Marvel did as wrong and will praise anything she does. The backlash is to this type of behavior. I think the film is good enough to stand on its own and did not need this extra boost. The backlash is a response to the people that overly praise the film and not the film itself.

[–] Fonz (638) 6 years ago

Sure Carol came off arrogant there, but she was right though to which Steve Rogers agreed with her. The fact is Carol was kind of arrogant in Captain Marvel too so why would she change? As for saying Carol has to earn her place on the team they don’t have time for since Thanos got rid of half of the people. I knew that line would get Captain Marvel haters upset.

[–] NorrinRad (5470) 6 years ago

I'm not saying that Carol came off as arrogant. I leave that type of judgment to, as you say, the Captain Marvel haters. I think she is incredibly self-assured and overly confident which is the point of Carol Danvers not exactly Captain Marvel. Right now for me they are two different entities.

I'm in total agreement with you as Steve indeed did want to roll with her attack plan but Rhoadie certainly did give Carol the side-eye with Steve giving her that kind of, "she's got a point and she is right".

I still believe that there are more words after that initial set-up that won't match the anti-CMers narrative that Carol Danvers is overbearing and arrogant. I could be wrong but I just don't see Marvel attempting to transition to a new standard-bearer for their brand that is annoying by design.

[–] HarlemEagle42 (18433) 6 years ago

It's the internet. Just ignore it.

[–] NorrinRad (5470) 6 years ago

Not interested in the faux Captain Marvel internet outrage. That is a cottage industry unto itself. I like my MCU movies immersive which means I actually fall prey to trying to understand the characters. That was a character moment where my view of the character appears so vastly different from some others, albeit probably the CM haters.

Wanted to see what others thought.

[–] FFNogoodnik (778) 6 years ago

I saw the film and liked it, I liked it enough to see it three times. While I did like the film I do understand the backlash.

The backlash is not about the character but about how many people reacted to it. They reacted like it was the best thing ever and they made it a point to note the reason for their excitement was that is was because a woman was the lead. Any critique of the film was automatically interpreted as a misogynist response. I truly do not understand how someone can think another person is "afraid" of a female lead when numerous films with female leads have been successful.

You mention some of the "over reaction" to her scene in the Endgame trailer but do not mention how much some other people over reacted in a positive manner. Some people have talked about how awesome she is because Stormbreaker flew inches from her head and she did not flinch. That is an exaggeration because 1) the angle Thor held out his hand it was at least a foot away and 2) from her point of view all she saw was Thor put out his hand and never had any idea anything was coming towards her.

The reason why some might want her to get a comeuppance would be to shut these fans up who only see Captain Marvel as a female rep in the MCU and not as a character of her own.

Clark Gregg had an interview where he called critics of the film manbabies and had the usual repeat that narrative response instead of looking at the situation as it is. In that interview he had a statement where he basically said "I can't wait until it is possible for a movie to have a female lead and her gender is not a problem." To that I say, you could have had it with Captain Marvel but you decided to make it an issue first.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Its a comic book movie. There will be another one in 3 months.

[–] NorrinRad (5470) 6 years ago

[–] Quioby1 (621) a day ago
Its a comic book movie. There will be another one in 3 months.

It's a message board for a Comic Book Movie. You are free to comment on, create threads, etc on any one or other boards more to your liking during the next three months. Cheers

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Nah. Im just laughing at all the hype. For such lame movies, you'd figure people would learn. But, they dont because there's another hyped film just around the corner. Did you see the avengers movie promoted right after Captain-Marvel? Did you see the Star wars movie just drop a traier? Disney has ya'll chasing the dragon. It's really funny.

[–] NorrinRad (5470) 6 years ago

Nah. I'm just laughing at all the hype. For such lame movies, you'd figure people would learn. But, they don't because there's another hyped film just around the corner.

Fair enough, but there is such a wide variety of movies and what you think may be lame as a movie might very well be quite entertaining to some. Like me for instance. I grew up reading about these characters just as I grew up reading about Captain Ahab (Moby Dick) , H. George Wells (The Time Machine), etc and just as those characters fascinated my imagination when read and then turned into movies so do these Comic Book properties.

In many ways these characters and their adventures are the modern mythology of the current Western societies as much as Greek, Norse and Roman mythology were to early Western society.

To me it is pretty heady in both the technology and the modern mythology.

Disney and Star Wars and the next form of entertainment released in three months is indeed separating people from their money and time but I do believe they/we all do it willing and it provides, well..... enjoyment.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Far be it from me to keep a fool from separating himself from his money.

20+ movies in and your mythology has no new technology or stories to offer. The characters continue to relive the same arc. The bad guys are going to shoot a beam into the sky and try to destroy the world(or half of life with thanos).By the time the movie is over, it is revealed to be a 3 hour long commercial for the next movie. Thats why the easter Eggs are so prevalent. They want you to forget the movie and be hyped for the next. Disney has you chasing the carrot on a stick.

[–] NorrinRad (5470) 6 years ago

20+ movies in and your mythology has no new technology or stories to offer. The characters continue to relive the same arc. The bad guys are going to shoot a beam into the sky and try to destroy the world(or half of life with thanos).By the time the movie is over, it is revealed to be a 3 hour long commercial for the next movie.

Long form story-telling and serialized movies juggling this many characters might have a feel of redundancy but each character is nonetheless unique and singular which is why audiences have attached themselves to different characters. Iron Man isn't Thor isn't T'Challa isn't Captain Rogers and their respective character arcs along with their origins are all different.

But we each see what we want, bring our own biases and take out whatever we put in?

You see what you choose to see and for some reason it involves carrots and commercials.

[–] ultravioletx (10237) 6 years ago

It sucks how Youtube gives a loud voice to such a few people. Its their algorithms and Youtube has a problem with them too which is why they are always talking about "improving" them. The alt-right cesspool of visitors of the site are always going back and forth circle-jerking the same content creators making those content creators loads of advert dollars. Yet when those advert companies learn which type of videos their advert dollars are on they pull them causing an "adpocalypse." So Youtube has to change the algorithms so there isn't so much circle-jerking on alt-right propaganda and conspiracy flat-earther channels. But whenever Youtube does anything with their algorithms the conspiracy nuts and alt-right all start yelling out "LIBERAL BIAS!"