Did Thor screw up with causing Ragnarok when he did? - Avengers: Infinity War (2018) Discussion

[–] DirtyDozen (76) 7 years ago

Thanos would've still used the full might of the Power Stone to take out Hela especially with no Asgardians left on the planet. Would've been a crazy fight though!

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[–] fishpan (544) 7 years ago

It sure would have been as Hela would do have gone for the space one to counter the power stone

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[–] dlancer (2036) 7 years ago

Loki taking the tesseract from the vault was a missed opportunity. I get it that they didn't want Thanos to kill people just to impress lady Death like in the comics, but they could've had a scene where Thanos visits destroyed Asgard looking for the tesseract and finds the goddess of death Hela barely clinging to life. We could get a glimpse of him mourning her as she perishes, and then he takes the tesseract and leaves. It would keep his "destroy half the universe" motivation, but also give a slight nod to the fans of the original story.

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[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

Thanos doesn't have a reason to mourn Hela, though. For all he cares, she's just another dead Asgardian. Sure, it would have been a nod to his devotion towards Death in the comics, but it wouldn't make sense for the movie version as he was more interested in life in his own screwed up way.

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[–] dlancer (2036) 7 years ago

I chose mourn, but it's really about him being smitten with her, but only just a tad. Basically, he was mourning because he was attracted to her.

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[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

Why would he be attracted to her? She was all about death and taking control of the realms (assuming he knows who she is) while he is about life and balance. They are philosophically opposed to one another.

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[–] dlancer (2036) 7 years ago

I call bullshit on Thanos caring about life. He gets his rocks off by killing half the population. It doesn't matter if the planet he's wrecking is low in resources or not. He's gonna go to that planet and kill half regardless. It may have started in the right place, with his home world of Titan, but then it grew into a pathological condition.

Also, Hela in the MCU appears more about ruling than killing. She said she was upset that Odin stopped at nine realms. She said nothing about laying waste to those nine realms. She wanted more realms so that she could rule over them instead of putting them in the grave.

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[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

Sure, Thanos is a madman, but going by his own worldview, he values life. He wants to bring balance to the universe and then retire on some planet somewhere. And yes, Hela wants to rule other realms as I mentioned. That's not what Thanos is about. He doesn't want to rule and seems pretty bored with those who do. As he told Ronan, politics bore him. And again, this is all assuming he would recognize who Hela was if he saw her dead body floating in space.

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[–] dlancer (2036) 7 years ago

He doesn't have to recognize her. That was never part of the premise. The guy can simply be attracted to her as a nod to him being attracted to lady Death in the comics. It's like you're trying too hard to be a contrarian or something.

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[–] FFNogoodnik (775) 7 years ago

Yes but you are also ignoring that Thanos's attraction to Death was never established in the MCU. You can have a nod to the comics if it does not distract from the overall story. Having Thanos mourn her without giving the movie audience a reason just comes off as a plot hole.

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[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

Yeah. There is no reaosn for him to mourn her. Not unless you rewrite his character.

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[–] dlancer (2036) 7 years ago

You're all fucking retarded.

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[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

Why are you being so defensive?

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[–] dlancer (2036) 7 years ago

Because I've already explained it has nothing to do with an attraction to death. You don't have to rewrite his character for him to have a little bit of passion for a goddess right as she perishes.

If it was about his attraction to death, it would be exactly like the comics. It can't be, because there is no fucking Death in the MCU.

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[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

Thanos had no qualms about Thor, Loki, or Heimdal dying. Why would he care for Hela?

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[–] dlancer (2036) 7 years ago

"They are unruly, and therefore cannot be ruled. To challenge them is to court.. death." Thanos turns his head and smiles.

But nah... we can't have Thanos find Hela attractive, because it goes against his character.

Pfffff.

Also, when Thanos said "your politics bore me," he was specifically talking about the Kree's disdain for Xandar.

Y'all are too much.

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[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

As FFNogoodnik pointed out, shout outs to comics need to still work within the plot of the movie. Having Howard the Duck in the background is fine as the audience doesn't need to know who or what he is. The Other making the "court death" statement works as, in-universe, he was simply warning Thanos and Thanos smiled because he wanted to take that challenge. In both cases, the comic fans get a chuckle but the main audience understand it within context.

An entire scene where Thanos mourns a dying Hela would make people wonder if there was some connection between them. Because otherwise, there is no plot reason why Thanos should care. You said yourself it wouldn't matter if he knew who she was or what her mission was, so for all he knows, it's some girl who used to clean the stables dying out in space. He wouldn't mourn her anymore than he mourned the thousands of Asgardians he killed, or Gamora's people, or the Avengers. It's not in his character.

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[–] FFNogoodnik (775) 7 years ago

they could've had a scene where Thanos visits destroyed Asgard looking for the tesseract and finds the goddess of death Hela barely clinging to life. We could get a glimpse of him mourning her as she perishes

And what you are not seeing is a scene like that would put the idea into the audience that she was someone special to him. They would ask "Why is he mourning her?" "Did I miss something in one of the 17 post credit sequences?"

The point AP and I are making is that adding a scene like that becomes part of the story unlike having Cosmo or Howard the Duck in the collector's collection. Even something like having Red Skull guard the Soul Stone is not bad because if no one remembers him from Captain America : The First Avenger he just becomes some weird looking guy guarding the stone.

To summarize : having a scene like you suggested brings up questions that a "call out" to the comic readers should not do.

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[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

Hela was planning on invading other realms once she got Hemidal's sword. She wasn't going to stop at Asgard. There would have been two cosmic villains running rampant through the universe if Thor just let Hela go. And since Hela wanted to move on to other realms, there's a chance Thanos would have entered a Hela-less Asgard and taken the Tesseract with no problem.

That said, it's a bit of a plothole that Hela didn't use the Tesseract to go to other realms and given up going after the sword. She knew what the Infinity Stones were as she knew the gauntlet was fake and was impressed once she saw the Tesseract.

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[–] fishpan (544) 7 years ago

No she wasn't but causing Ragnorok at a point when Thanos and Hela went at each other while each has the power and space stones would have probably gotten rid all four problems and allowed the universe to be rid of two big threats.

You could say it is all a question of timing.

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[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

Hmmm, maybe. Of course, hindsight is 20/20. Thor didn't know Thanos was on the move, although it seems Loki was anticipating him showing up at some point.

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[–] fishpan (544) 7 years ago

Not to mention probably Odin, considering Thanos made a move against Earth to get the Tesseract when it was there but wasn't willing to make a direct move against Asgard when they had it or when they had the Ether as well. So why didn't Thanos go after Asgard until after Odin was gone.

Though could it be argued that this is another one of Odin's screw ups considering he said Asgard was the people so could have let Hela out evacuated the place and then just blew the place if he always got that ending Hela was always going to have to happen. Why did he let Hela stew instead of just putting his daughter out her misery.

But he didn't, so did he have an idea that the destruction of his home could kill two birds with one stone but Thanos wouldn't make a move against Asgard until after he was gone. He was just too 'Odin' to explain that Ragnorok would have to wait until after Thanos arrived so they'd have to keep Hela on Asgard to that point.

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[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

I'm not sure if Odin knew Thanos existed, so it's a bit hard to expect him to plan for him. As for his punishment of Hela, banning people and stripping them of their power is his go-to move. He did it to Thor and it seems he did it to Surtur as well. It's how he deals with threats. I'm not sure if he would have unleashed Surtur as that seems to be entirely Thor's idea.

As for why Thanos didn't act until Odin died, I think Thanos knew better than to get into a battle with the All Father. Waiting until Asgard was more vulnerable seems like a better idea.

We also need to remember Loki's hand in all this. He wiped Odin's memory and banished him to Earth. By the time he realized what had happened, he was dying and couldn't do much about it. It's a good chance Odin had some plan for when Hela returned by Loki threw a monkey wrench into that plan.

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