MovieChat Forums > Hand of God (2014) Discussion > Evidence from the first episode (spoiler...

Evidence from the first episode (spoilers)

posted 9 years ago by skane110-1
21 replies | jump to latest

In the very first episode we see Pernell be lead to Shane as the person who raped Jocelyn. When Shane is killed later on by KD and he confesses to the crime, we should have all known from that moment that Pernell wasn't hallucinating and god was really talking to him. How else could he have known that it was Shane? There was no evidence linking him to the rape. Otherwise, the police would have figured it out.

I think it's kinda annoying how the show kept making us think that maybe Pernell was really crazy and god wasn't speaking to him but, it's obvious that god was helping Pernell, and that his reward would be having PJ wake up. I pretty much knew that PJ would be saved at the end since Pernell was doing so much to make that happen.

This is a show where god most definitely exists and for some reason, he cares about the son of a corrupt judge who is morally bankrupt and a lousy father. I'm not a religious person at all but, I can appreciate what this show had to say about god and having the visions be true was a nice twist even though it was obvious from the very beginning.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] nowhereman1-1 9 years ago

You see telepathy before god...WOW.

"The end is not the end, but for the beginning an end is always near."

[–] judsonkr 9 years ago

C. It could be telepathy. Also far fetched, but still more believable than god talking to him.

I am as skeptical as the next guy and probably more so.

But you want to think that telepathy is more likely than God talking to him?

Delusional much?

"When all is said and done, a lot more will have been said than done."

[–] firstwinsgop-1 9 years ago

How else could he have known that it was Shane?

Gee, I don't know. Maybe because he was involved in the robbery and therefore new who did it all along! Parnell is crazy. His son killed himself as a result of an act that Parnell set in motion and when that happened Parnell suffered a psychotic break. His mind suppressed the memory of his own involvement in the crime, but deep down, all the information is still there and it is coming out in the form of these crazy visions and conversations with his comatose son.

[–] skane110-1 9 years ago

How the hell was Parnell responsible for the crime? There is not one scene to suggest that. If you look at who was responsible for the rape, and the reasons why it happened, it would make no sense for Parnell to have been a part of it. He didn't even know that his son was having an affair and that the woman was devastated when he went back to his wife. He also didn't know anything about his son's program that was in a book that was stolen on the night of the rape. How could he have known about that? Even the wife didn't know anything about it until she saw P.J. on video placing the information into the book and then having her notice that it's missing.

I agree partly about Parnell being somewhat responsible for his son's suicide attempt since he insulted him and also because Parnell didn't answer when his son called moments before he shot himself. Yes, that guilt is responsible for Parnell's breakdown but, not because he knew about Shane and the others. That's why I think that there must've been god's involvement in it, as far-fetched as that sounds. Even if god didn't lead Parnell to shane and it was only his suppressed memories, you can't overlook the fact that P.J. totally woke up or was in the process of waking up, right after Parnell kept this promise to find out who was responsible for everything. Is that supposed to be a huge coincidence also? God existing is far more believable than that.

[–] TurnerJazz 9 years ago

I actually think he's on to something here. I think there was much more to the suicide than Parnell insulting him. At the very least, I think PJ became convinced that Parnell is the one who had the book stolen and Jocelyn raped. He knew that Parnell was committed to getting Brooks there. He knew they wanted his software. When he saw it in the promo on her shelf I think PJ became convinced (or at least suspected) that Parnell was involved and that he was willing to do that just to make sure Brooks went forward.

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[–] Ithilfaen 9 years ago

How the hell was Parnell responsible for the crime? There is not one scene to suggest that. If you look at who was responsible for the rape, and the reasons why it happened, it would make no sense for Parnell to have been a part of it

It makes no sense IF you assume that the show tied it all neat and pretty at the end of just one season (why would they?) and that Ann was responsible. We don't know that.

He also didn't know anything about his son's program that was in a book that was stolen on the night of the rape.

Maybe he didn't know about the book. But he knew about the program.

you can't overlook the fact that P.J. totally woke up or was in the process of waking up, right after Parnell kept this promise to find out who was responsible for everything.

Again, we don't know that PJ woke up. Pernell could have been hallucinating again. PJ's reaction could have been a purely physical reaction to being unplugged, a physical reflex trying to fight the suffocation. We don't know he woke up at all.

You're just awfully quick to believe everything the show is trying hard to make you believe lol. I guess that's like religion.

God existing is far more believable than that.

No it's not. You just want it to be. You're not religious but you accepted the reality of God in the show so you're willing to believe anything is "proof" just like Pernell is.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

[–] TurnerJazz 9 years ago

This is exactly what I've been wondering. I have a theory that PJ killed himself because he thinks that Parnell is responsible for the rape of Jocelyn. I don't know that this is true, but I think PJ came to believe that watching the promo, knowing how involved his father was in getting Brooks. And it could be the case. PJ keeps telling him to keep his promise to make sure the people responsible pay. Maybe he means Parnell himself.

So that may be the big twist that awaits if this show keeps going.

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[–] Ithilfaen 9 years ago

So that may be the big twist that awaits if this show keeps going.

It is. Not maybe.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

[–] firstwinsgop-1 9 years ago

How the hell was Parnell responsible for the crime? There is not one scene to suggest that. If you look at who was responsible for the rape, and the reasons why it happened, it would make no sense for Parnell to have been a part of it. He didn't even know that his son was having an affair and that the woman was devastated when he went back to his wife. He also didn't know anything about his son's program that was in a book that was stolen on the night of the rape. How could he have known about that? Even the wife didn't know anything about it until she saw P.J. on video placing the information into the book and then having her notice that it's missing.

Multiple scenes in the series suggests it. And of course Crazy Parnell doesn't know about his son's affair with the woman now. Crazy Parnell has blocked all the memories relating to his involvement in his son's suicide from his mind. That is why everything is coming to him through his subconscious via this God delusion.

[–] skane110-1 9 years ago

Multiple scenes in the series suggests it

Okay, describe one.

Crazy Parnell has blocked all the memories relating to his involvement in his son's suicide

That's a ridiculous way to say that Parnell is responsible and yet he's going after other people for it out of just memory loss. If parnell did have something to do with the whole thing then, why didn't the other parties involved say anything about it? It seems to me that the crazy mistress, Ann, set the whole thing in motion because she was both extremely ambitious at her job while, also hating PJ, and his wife. She clearly was trying to help her boss by stealing the book with the code in it, and also having Jocelyn get raped in the process both out of spite, and also to distract anyone from noticing that the book has gone missing.

I also don't think that Parnell would do any of these things just for Brooks when, when he didn't even care all that much about the Mayor's plan for the city. In fact, getting Brooks to fund something was not nearly as important to Parnell as it was to the mayor. That guy was intense and seemed to be willing to do almost anything to get what he wanted.

[–] drewschmidt920 9 years ago

I agree with you completely. There is no way he was involved in the rape. My theory is that the whole reason there was a rape was spite over PJ going back to his wife. There could have been all sorts of different crimes to cover up the theft of the book. But they chose to go with raping his wife while he watched. Anne wanted to hurt him.

Purnell couldn't care less about getting Brooks there. It was the mayor pushing that the whole time.

I think one of the reasons PJ was reaching out/watching that video over and over before killing himself is because PJ may have put two and two together. Or at the very least felt that he was being used to get to Purnell. He may have wanted to warn Purnell about getting into business with those people.

Further if he realized she was the one that had the software stolen that night, PJ unknowingly played an indirect but large part in getting his wife raped.

[–] Ithilfaen 9 years ago

Further if he realized she was the one that had the software stolen that night, PJ unknowingly played an indirect but large part in getting his wife raped.

... and instead of getting her investigated for it, he just blows his brains out?

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

[–] firstwinsgop-1 9 years ago

The other parties haven't had a chance to say anything about it, and we don't know which parties to the conspiracy Parnell had personal contact before the incident with anyway. Sean was killed before he could tell what he knew. When Parnell went to visit his accomplice in jail, Parnell asks him if he knows who he is and the guy says "yes" and then has a shell shocked expression on his face when Parnell launches in to his tirade and Parnell is dragged out before the guy can respond.

I also don't think that Parnell would do any of these things just for Brooks when, when he didn't even care all that much about the Mayor's plan for the city. In fact, getting Brooks to fund something was not nearly as important to Parnell as it was to the mayor. That guy was intense and seemed to be willing to do almost anything to get what he wanted

Who said he did it for Brooks? The land deal and the software theft are completely separate issues. Parnell's indifference to the land deal has no bearing on his potential involvement in the software theft.

[–] Ithilfaen 9 years ago

That's a ridiculous way to say that Parnell is responsible and yet he's going after other people for it out of just memory loss.

Well, he admitted to his shrink that he did it out of guilt. The fact he's covering his actual guilt with another guilt he can deal with doesn't mean he's ready to accept either.

If parnell did have something to do with the whole thing then, why didn't the other parties involved say anything about it?

Like who? Other parties involved would have a lot to lose in admitting to anything, don't you think? If you mean the cop, he probably had no idea who was behind what he was hired to do. If you mean Ann, she had nothing to do with the rape.

It seems to me that the crazy mistress, Ann, set the whole thing in motion because she was both extremely ambitious at her job while, also hating PJ, and his wife. She clearly was trying to help her boss by stealing the book with the code in it

Right. So a complete stranger in a new town just hire a damn cop, of all people, to commit a crime for her, trusting he won't just arrest her for solicitation of a felony. Did she find him in the yellow pages under C for Crook?

Also, if she had stolen the code for her boss, I doubt he'd fire her. Would you fire someone who's committed a crime for you? Would you trust her not to go to the press about it or the cops?

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

[–] chrislwmn3 9 years ago

So what reason does he have for killing Josh if he knew subconsciously that Josh wasn't involved? If you throw out a theory, it at least has to be consistent.

He regretted setting josh as a target so much that he tied him to a chair, and then cried when he found that KD had killed him. The subconscious theory just doesn't work.

[–] alreadydid3 9 years ago

I've been reading the thread and am just replying here but it is to everyone saying Pernell was involved in the original crime... ummm... no!!

Put yourselves in PJ's shoes... I'm quite sure he did nothing but rack his brains trying to figure out who did it and why... especially after his father said "She’d feel safe if you weren’t the pussy who sat back and watched another man rape his wife." When PJ watched that tape over and over and came to the conclusion that his mistress stole the book/program and had his wife raped... how was he supposed to just come clean to Jocelyn. I'm also sure he knew Ann stole the program for her boss. Brooks is a very rich and powerful man so how was PJ to just run to the police. He did what a lot of guys do... he tried to go to his Dad for help. Plain and simple. (Maybe we find out that PJ didn't actually shoot himself... maybe he did reach out to Brooks and maybe someone made it look like attempted suicide.)

As for God, psychotic break, etc... different people believe different things... ghosts, premonitions, instinct, Universal awareness, God, Devil... I don't think the God we're told about would lead Pernell to go off the deep end and kill people. Who knows... maybe PJ was "minimally conscious" and Pernell was taping into that.

[–] dustyhorse5 9 years ago

Lol. This is why it's a great show. Multiple theories from various viewers. Excellent!

[–] lancer165 9 years ago

Not too sure about some of the theories given. In a supernatural sense how about God in contact with PARNELL PURNELL PERNELL and giving him the thought that PJ was to be kept on the machine. Well the visions the auditory hallucinations did lead Pernell in certain directions and he did get to the root of the problem. Why any female would indeed cause a RAPE is beyond me. My memory does tell me that that the rapist who confesses was a policeman working in conjunction with others and that there was superior power he could not defy/deny. I never got my head around that sub plot.

Nothing seemed clear cut with the ending.

[–] philfeeley 9 years ago

There must have been others involved. How could an employee of a company that wasn't based in the city get a city cop to rape anyone? I'm sure she was working with someone else - someone more powerful. We just have to wait and see if it's revealed in season 2.

[–] Ithilfaen 9 years ago

I think it's kinda annoying how the show kept making us think that maybe Pernell was really crazy and god wasn't speaking to him but, it's obvious that god was helping Pernell,

LOL it's funny because after watching the pilot, I was thinking the exact opposite. I was annoyed that they seemed to imply it was obviously God helping him.

Now I'm turned around. Pernell is crazy and eaten by guilt. He can't deal with his role in his son's death so he makes up crazy *beep* about a higher power guiding him to blame everyone but himself.

How is it "obvious" that God is helping him?

I pretty much knew that PJ would be saved at the end since Pernell was doing so much to make that happen.

We don't know that at all. Pernell has been hallucinating (that's obvious since the medication stopped "God" from talking to him) and for all we know, that's also what's happening at the end.

This is a show where god most definitely exists and for some reason, he cares about the son of a corrupt judge who is morally bankrupt and a lousy father.

And you don't find that incredibly convenient? Thousands of people die each day, to disease, crime, poverty, natural disaster that arguably "God" could prevent and the one guy he's interested in is a nobody who shot himself?

If you admit the reality of God in the show then how about the Devil? What tells you that he isn't the one pulling the strings and making Pernell kill all these people to make up for the wrongs he did? You haven't seen Angel Heart, have you?

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco