MovieChat Forums > Saul fia (2015) Discussion > I was only following orders.

I was only following orders.


My historical reading and documentary knowledge of the whole Holocaust era is all that I can go on. I have no problem with anything which can keep the story going about how man can be so cruel to his fellows. While Abu Ghraib and suchlike Guantanamo have figured greatly in the wake of a war I have no faith in [but totally support the poor troops [pawns]who are the extension of diplomacy by another means]. These very MINOR events caused such outrages. Even the one that Piers Morgan bet his REPUTATION over which was staged caused so much offence. I do honestly feel that a soldier of a civilised military who commits an offence openly must face consequences. In my own area that means some Paras on Bloody Sunday seem to have used unaccounted for ammunition to play fairground shooting gallery with defenceless Paddy's. Now again in that conflict area I have no problem with the demise of all active paramilitaries of all sides and even those who support them. I can she not a single tear for them or theirs. I shed no tears for those who feel that Allah has blessed certain destructive action resulting in death by suicide taking out infidels and anyone who is not in full agreement of the Caliphate. May they continue to die especially in training.

My knowledge about Sonderkommando is that the German soldier here was very traumatised by various methods of execution and the kindly leaders like Himmler sympathetically called for more humane methods that would not upset these poor dears. Hence instead of bullets in the back of the head we come up with mass gassings and then disposal. A very technical exercise indeed requiring great care and attention to detail. SonderKommando and so called semi trusted guards kept things under control but in a brutal fashion. They guided their fellows to the chambers using lies. They knew that they were just another group and would likely be replaced themselves. Trickery and chicanery abounded in order to gain more lifetime. Perhaps they too thieved from those about to die andwe can never know what depths they sank to in this terrible time. It will have been little different to any other system which concentrated peoples for usage abuse and eventual death as in Russia, China and today in North Korea. Those in North Korea no doubt feel they are fortunate in many ways and also know boat rocking can lead to being used as MISSILE target testing practice.

If we feel that it is OKAY to charge as we do anyone in the Nazi system with war crimes and refuse to accept the following orders EXCUSE as it could mean certain death then I wonder why it does not apply to the Sonderkommando who may have survived?

I really have every sympathy for a people so persecuted throughout history. A people who since [if it is all actually really true getting itself settled into the Promised land have not actively wished to militarily conquer other lands or peoples. The Palestine situation does not count in that nor does any of the Wars that were fought and WON by the Israeli. Yes arguments may be made likening them to the Nazi but when you consider that all those nations who worked against dear Adolf for their own survival how is it that the Nazi clubs figure so well. I include the UK the USA and Poland of all places. The Poles had little problem in occupying and stealing anything the German deprived the Jew of and remember the NOBLE Russian involvement early on.

Even the British Channel Islands should hang their heads in shame.

Having read recently about the Belgians and the systematic rape of the Belgian Congo just prior to WW1 it makes me wonder about the Europeans and the attitudes to other peoples. Britain did have an Empire and no doubt atrocities did occur but not with the connivance of the monarchy or the governments in such a way as these nations. The proof of this may well be in the fact that we still have an Empire called a Commonwealth still causing jealousy in the world. We can still host a sporting competition known as the Friendly Games.

Our Empire was threatened not so much by Hitler [who admired how it was all held together with so very little force and manpower]it was however hated by the USA as it was a very large trading area in the world. They refused to aid our struggle against the NAZI if it was only to ensure we kept our Empire. Back door deals/threats and in fact a desire by many that US sided with the Nazi. Mr Kennedy one who had no problem with Britain being over run. We have only just finished paying the bill to the USA. Of course the Russians who were supplied much via the British Convoy system [costing many lives and ships each time] got it for free, or did we have to buy of off the Yanks first to take it to the Russians?

Yes I generalised somewhat but should the Sonderkommando be excused for aiding the enemy. Had they been captured soldiers courts martial might have been used. We know that the Russians even murdered many prisoners they got back at wars end.

I have not seen this effort and cannot find an area where I can view it at leisure.

I know that in the UK we do have still a few survivors [yes the USA has as well] of the Japanese part of WW2. I know that many atrocities happened out there as well. Many warr crimes are still not considered important and only if more that three [murders] werre involved. Japanese culture was and may well still be in some areas cruel. They beat their own lower ranks as a routine. Sick soldiers were put on reduced rations and those who gave themselves up in combat? considered cowardly. The whole ethos meant that should the mainland have been invaded by allied troops the human cost would have been unthinkable. These people with little incentive would have been like the old sick and young brought out to defend Germany in the last days. We know of the Japanese population of an island where the GIs were horrified to see women with children jumping form cliffs to certain death rather than be eaten according to the propaganda.
The German we thought was a civilised being so in my opinion his crime was much worse.

Yes they were only following orders.

reply

If we feel that it is OKAY to charge as we do anyone in the Nazi system with war crimes and refuse to accept the following orders EXCUSE as it could mean certain death then I wonder why it does not apply to the Sonderkommando who may have survived?


'Lancer', you seem to be confused.

1) The Sonderkommando never chose to do that work. They were selected without knowing. Then they only could escape by killing themselves. There was no freedom of choice whatsoever.

2) The SS men chose to become part of that antisemitic organisation. They did it for ideological reasons. And after the war historians and courts showed that
they could have said 'No', because no SS was ever punished for not doing his job
in the death camps.


You are confusing slave labour with voluntary mass murder.

reply

Amen, Naples. I have been to Auschwitz / Birkenau near Krakow, Poland, and seen the evidence with my own eyes.




Schrodinger's cat walks into a bar, and / or doesn't.

reply

Yes yes yes. The 'nazi SS' claim they were following orders. They are cowards. The Jewish Kapo did not have a choice.

reply

You always have a choice. In this case the other choice was death. I'd choose that as I'm sure many actually did over helping killing innocent people.

Obviously it's a lot easier saying something compared to doing it and unless you are put in that situation it's impossible to know how you'd react.

Anyway, my point is there's always a choice and I'd suggest not let anyone convince you otherwise.

reply