MovieChat Forums > Saul fia (2015) Discussion > Why is Saul looking for a Rabbi?

Why is Saul looking for a Rabbi?

posted 9 years ago by Jan_Huttner
19 replies | jump to latest

OK, where to begin about SON OF SAUL? Let's start here: Why does Saul feel he needs a Rabbi to bury his son?

To me, this seemed like a very Christian quest. (Please correct me if I am wrong about this, but my understanding is that only a Catholic Priest can dispense Last Rites.)

But in Judaism? My father died in Florida, but asked to be buried in the family plot in the Jewish Cemetery in NJ. They offered us a Rabbi. I said: Since your Rabbi didn't know my Dad, we'd rather just speak for ourselves.

So I presided, various relatives & friends spoke, & the Cemetery folks were fine with that (folks who would not have buried my husband in their Jewish cemetery prior to his conversion).

So why did Saul risk his life to find a Rabbi...?

Let's start there.

Thanks,
Jan

[–] leijla 9 years ago

I am sorry for your loss.

Regarding your questions, I understood that his quest for the rabbi was in order to ensure that the child gets a proper Jewish burial. Today there are many sources of information, different organisations and associations that provide that information readily. It is fair to assume that Saul in the 1940s Hungary was not versed in all details of the Jewish tradition, and that he did not know all customs and prayers required for burial. In the concentration camp there were no usual Jewish support services like Hevra Kedisha or family members that he could consult, so the quest for the rabbi was a quest for a proper Jewish burial (for me the symbolism was that that child that was killed twice at least is saved through a proper funeral).

I also think that rabbis are consulted on Jewish tradition for life cycle events even today. So although a rabbi is not required at a funeral as such, consulting a rabbi is an assurance that the burial will be a proper Jewish funeral. So it is not so much a matter of "who will be speaking" at a funeral, but that the whole process from the moment of death until the burial and the funeral itself are done according to Jewish tradition (which is something "the Cemetery folks" took care of for you).

Also it cannot be associated with Christian last rites as they are given before someone dies and not after they are dead.

[–] Gregoire-2 9 years ago

Although, as somebody who grew up Christian, I was able to empathize for his desire and situation. In a desperate moment, you hold on to being able to give somebody you love one last gift - in this case, the possibility of an afterlife for his dead son.

[–] fonfose 9 years ago

In the film, the character of Saul is a very assimilated Hungarian Jew. He is not religious, in fact, he knows very little about the Jewish religious tradition. He does not know that you don't need a rabbi at all for a proper Jewish burial (neither do you need a rabbi for a wedding, by the way). His quest is not 'rational' in any sense except to himself.

[–] Jan_Huttner 9 years ago

Hi, akvileGR: Please tell me how you know this. I have seen Son of Saul twice now, and I don't remember any specific discussion of any of these topics in the film.

What is your actual evidence for saying that Saul "knows very little about the Jewish religious tradition"...?

Maybe you just assume this because you know--as I know--that a Jewish funeral does not require the presence of a Rabbi? But maybe it's all there & I missed it? If so, then please convince me. Really, I'm serious: please convince me.

Thanks & all best,
Jan

[–] m_tom 9 years ago

According to the trivia page on imdb, the director confirmed this:

"Director László Nemes on character Saul Ausländer: "The main character is not a religious person, and actually makes mistakes about what it means to bury in the Jewish way. You don't need a rabbi, you need ten people saying the Kaddish, so he never gets that right." [2015]"

[–] Jan_Huttner 9 years ago

So this fact--"the main character is not a religious person"--is NOT in the film itself & you only know it if you read the director's comments on the trivia page on IMDb?

People have told me I shouldn't dwell on this mistake "about what it means to bury in the Jewish way." People I respect have gone so far as to call it "picayune." But I disagree. To me it is a "dog whistle," just like the totally inappropriate appearance of a photo of Irena Sendler in Ida.

Please, someone, please convince me otherwise.

All best,
Jan

[–] fonfose 9 years ago

Even if the director hadn't made any comment about it, it is pretty obvious - if Saul had ever been a religious Jew he would have a knowledge of what precisely is needed for a proper burial. If he was actually a practicing Jew, we would see it in the film (praying, saying blessings etc.)

[–] fonfose 9 years ago

P.S. Just a small detail: I should see the film again in order to check, but I don't think Saul ever uses a word of Hebrew origin when speaking Yiddish - which he, as an assimilated Hungarian Jew, only learnt in the camp. If he was religious, he would have a knowledge of Hebrew, and would probably feel more at ease with the Hebrew component in Yiddish.

[–] wearyourlove 9 years ago

Couldn't it be also that he was trying to facilitate some degree of civility and propriety in circumstances that had absolutely none of either? Making the burial more of a solemn ritual certainly adds dignity to an utterly bankrupt world.

[–] Jan_Huttner 9 years ago

The very idea that Saul's goal was "to facilitate some degree of civility and propriety... and add dignity" leaves me close to speechless. Honestly, WearOurLove, I am a glass-half-full kinda gal, but we are talking about Auschwitz. I don't understand how anyone who watched the first half of Son of Saul could use words like civility, propriety, dignity... Did we see the same film???

[–] wearyourlove 9 years ago

Huh? Did you actually read my reply?

"To facilitate some degree of civility and propriety in circumstances that had absolutely none of either? Making the burial more of a solemn ritual certainly adds dignity to an utterly bankrupt world."

Saul's mission throughout the film is, in fact, to maintain a sense of humanity and sanity amidst abject horror. Bringing a quality of ceremony to the burial certainly does this.

[–] Jan_Huttner 9 years ago

Yes, WearYourLove, I certainly did read your reply. All I can say in response is that if I really thought Saul had "a mission," then I guess I would never have started this thread in the first place. Somehow the very idea of trying to make lemonade from the lemons of Auschwitz is abhorrent to me. Let's just leave it at that... OK? All best, Jan

[–] wearyourlove 9 years ago

I'm very confused by your response. Is it not clear that Saul's fierce devotion to giving the boy a proper burial is a survival mechanism that gives him a sense of agency and purpose, a connection to humanity that can, however temporarily, lift him from the horror he's immersed in? Are you really suggesting that it's impossible to try to act humane and moral in the worst of circumstances? That victims of atrocities can't create hope for themselves? Now that's abhorrent.

[–] Jeromagnus 9 years ago

What strucks me is that if he really wanted to find the humane thing to do, he had the perfect opportunity to do so : rioting against the Nazis with his comrades. They were ready to riot, they were expecting his participation and they were even expecting his direct help by bringing back powder from the girl's bazaar.

Instead he seemed to chose the worst thing to do : going on a weird quest instead of helping his comrades. In fact, not only his he abandoning his comrades but he is squarely putting their plan in danger. The whole film suggests that the revolt could have succeeded if it was not by Saul's fault.

It is even worse now that I read this interesting topic concerning that you do not even need a rabbi to bury your dead ! I was not aware of that and it now makes even less sense why he went on a completely useless quest instead of doing the right thing : revolting against the nazis.

Here is my personal interpretation : knowing some revolt is coming he is so afraid of the process that he tries whatever absurd quest he can in order to avoid being involved.

[–] onex-ge 9 years ago

Saul was in an insane place. Why would he act reasonably?

[–] Jeromagnus 9 years ago

Well I would first say because he did not act unreasonably prior to that very first day we saw in the movie. Considering his relations with the others and his manifest knowledge of the terrible drill death camp, we can assume he has been there for months.

Secondly, I would add because not a single one other sonderkommando acted unreasonbly tough they were also in the same place (sane or insane). In fact, the entire kommando acted on a purely reasonable way assuming they wanted to stay alive.

[–] fguerra1 9 years ago

the theme of chosing the appropriate procedures or actions appears to dominate the film. At the end, it seems that his actions were futile. It reminded me of Hamlet, who never takes the proper solution to his dilemma. Why he does not join into the rebellion is beyond my understanding, but also, why if people see that everyone is being murdered, the victims do not rise against the oppresors? We all can come to different conclusions about the meaning of the film, and the directors can attempt to deliver a message, but in reality is only an attempt. Our relationship with God is unique and personal and our interpretation of the rituals is ours and ours alone. It is up to us to try to comprehend the humanity of Saul. It appears he had a son, but not with his wife and did not take care of him, so he felt the need to give this boy the proper care after dying twice. Excellent film. Sadly, I heard a lot of people saying that they did not liked it. I did. By the way, thanks to all who have contributed with their opinions.

[–] alpr5150 8 years ago

I just read this discussion and I totally agree with you wearyourlove. We have the right to fight for that little speck of dignity regardless our circumstances. Besides, I can totally see why Saul was not all there.

[–] 8 years ago

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