MovieChat Forums > Sons of Liberty (2015) Discussion > To Those Complaining About Historical In...

To Those Complaining About Historical Inaccuracy


I personally would prefer something that's historically accurate, but I'm not up in arms as some are about this show, as I am finding it entertaining. I know enough to know that its not accurate, but not enough to know too many of the finer points. As others have said, if it attracts non-history buffs, its a good thing. But here is a serious question. Have any of you thought about how you would present such a show? I think there must be enough stories that a more historically accurate version COULD be successful, but how would you do it, keeping in mind that it must appeal to non-history buffs.

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I would not be upset if this were showing on A&E, but this is the History Channel and by the very name, should have higher accuracy standards.

I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

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John Adams was a good miniseries that was decently accurate.

I Think it does more harm than good to be inaccurate because if people's only exposure to history is nothing but a six hour beer commercial they are going to take away lies and not truth from it.

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I must beg to differ that it does more harm than good. Do you know how many ignorant people there are out there? I watched a video just this morning where they questioned people on the street who couldn't even name George Washington as the first president (which isn't technically accurate) or even the century in which he served. Even a show with historical inaccuracies will get the basics across to people like that, and this is the type of show they would watch as opposed to a straight documentary format.

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It may even pique their interest enough to search out REAL documentaries to know more about the events.

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It may even pique their interest enough to search out REAL documentaries to know more about the events.

That is exactly my feeling.

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I get that. But how long has the "history" channel been following this direction? People should be used to it now. And as it has become quite apparent that its not going to change any time in the near future, why are people still complaining about it? Its not going to bring any greater awareness of the problem to the people who need to hear it. Basically its preaching to the choir.

But the question remains, could you, or anyone else who has voiced objections, create a historically accurate show that anyone besides history buffs would want to see? I'm not posing this question as a way of saying "STFU, if you don't like it, don't watch." I'm looking for productive answers that could be used as constructive suggestions to people who produce programming.

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Maybe they could have protrayed Sam Adams in a more historically accurate view. The series "John Adams" was much better than this. As for the Boston Massacre (a term that Sam or his cronies) came up, I have never read anything in any book that placed either Adams or Hancock anywhere near the event. The British troops were not the bullies portrayed in the show, in fact the "real sons of Liberty" practiced tactics trying to goad troops into commiting "police brutality".

Another glaring inconsistency is having any Irish immigrants. There were more black members of the real Sons of Liberty than Irish. I would be willing to bet a weeks pay there were no Irish in Boston until 1830 - I could be wrong but Massachusetts was founded by puritans and settled by protestants. The current large Catholic population in Massachusetts didn't arrive for many decades after the revolution.

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I would have thought that most of the Irish immigrants came to this country in the mid 1800s, but according to Wikipedia, 250,000 immigrated during the colonial period. Most appear to have settled more in the interior, but I wouldn't go as far as to say there were none in Boston during that time. I also read a quote from a British officer that said it seemed like half of the colonial army was Irish.

I agree that a more historically accurate Sam Adams would have been great, but could he have been made as interesting to "the masses." That has been my point all along. If shows like this at least get people interested (who weren't interested before) in the period, then I'd say its a win.

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You are probably correct. But I think the Irish that came here settled more to the south, working plantations as indentured or NYC as longshoremen or teamsters - I guess I should have qualified my statement.

The continental army (not the militias) was made up of many groups. There was an all black regiment from Rhode Island that won a significant battle, and New York may have had an all Irish Regiment (not exactly sure if they fought in any major battles), though many of the continentals who served with New York regiments were captured in Brooklyn or White Plains.

Shamefully, most Irish were looked down upon by the Protestants of New England as being papists. After King George, the Pope was probably the next most hated man in the world by the founding fathers

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You are probably correct. But I think the Irish that came here settled more to the south, working plantations as indentured or NYC as longshoremen or teamsters -

Yes, I read that they did tend to settle more in the south as well as the interior of the country. I seem to recall that they formed what would become those colloquially known as hillbillies. But also remember if they could be found as longshoremen, teamsters, or indentured servants, they likely would have been found in Boston as well. It wasn't until sometime between 1740 and 1765 that NY surpassed Boston in population. I'm not saying this as an absolute fact, just conjecture that since the populations, and I would assume the labor needs, of both cities were similar, you'd find a similar labor force.

Shamefully, most Irish were looked down upon by the Protestants of New England as being papists.

The Irish were actually looked down upon by many well into the 20th century, and not just by New England Protestants.

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Yes, a miniseries with accurate history could be made and be entertaining. So much of the actual history of the Revolution was hard to believe.

So few people know the real history anyway.

Frank: Just a man.
Harmonica: An ancient race.

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Yes, a miniseries with accurate history could be made and be entertaining. So much of the actual history of the Revolution was hard to believe.

OK, part 2 of the question.... How? How would you write a mini series about the Revolution and make it both factual and entertaining enough for no-history folks to enjoy?

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First of all. Good Thread!

The closest way *I* could develop a show about this subject would be similar to Ken Burn's "The Civil War' series.

Where as many 'facts' could be shown (like letters between people back then) in context to our Revolutionary War.

I personally am not 'Hating' this show. (I am not saying that I will give it any awards either...LOL)
However, if it starts conversations, debates, or even arguments between people on our history then that is 'The Silver Lining'.
That is a GOOD THING!
As long as people respect each others opinions and speak toward one another with a civil tongue.

In my personal opinion the 'Real History' about 'the story telling' (history in itself) goes back to the late 1940's.
Meaning Orwellian 'New Speak'.
AND the Orwellian type of Re-Writing of History.

I do NOT believe in coincidences. I do believe there is a reason for EVERYthing.
It is NO coincidence that Civics is NOT taught anymore in our public schools.
It is NO coincidence that people seem to be more ignorant now than ever before.
It is NO coincidence that while shows of this nature are being produced happens to be at the same time when our Civil Liberties are under severe attack.
The very same Civil Liberties in which people of this country rose up and then broke away from the Super Power called Great Britain.
They were THEE Super Power back then.
Even then it was only a few people when compared to the rest of the colonies that stood up to Great Britain.

Another note....
Words have meaning. Even the wrong usage of words.
For example using the word Freedom instead of Liberty.
I noticed that quite a bit while watching this show.
There is a difference.

We will NEVER get an accurate historical show no matter what channel it is on.
History gets re-written with Dis-Information from TV shows (and Films) like this.
Why?
To keep us ignorant.
Nothing is more scary to those 'In Power' than an Informed, Knowledgeable Public.

'They' like us ignorant while we are literally too busy to do much about it.
Our standard of living has dropped where we have to worry about our income/jobs, debt, etc.
For Example: Where protesting is looked upon as UN-Patriotic.
If we do not 'Support Our Troops' in illegal wars then we are UN-Patriotic.
Of course it is not the Troops that many of us do not support.
It is the actions of the people in the government that use our Troops in an illegal way.

Where our government has grossly shredded our 4th Amendment Rights by spying on EVERYone.
Not just with our computers and phones.
Research 'Licence Plate Readers' that Law Enforcement uses now.
You can view a video of that on the TED website...

HERE:
https://www.ted.com/talks/catherine_crump_the_small_and_surprisingly_d angerous_detail_the_police_track_about_you

Oh as for another coincidence I do not believe is one is the fact now cell phones are being made so we CANNOT take out our batteries.
That is so they can be tracked.

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While I wholeheartedly agree that we have problems with our government (and that's putting it lightly) and they do want to keep us ignorant, I don't think this production has anything to do with that. In fact, even though this is a fictionalized account, it shows that its "ok" fight injustice by those in power.

But on the subject of a more historically accurate movie, let me ramble a bit. You made a comment about there are no coincidences. That is kind of my point about this thread. Ask yourself WHY there are so few historically accurate movies and television shows. Maybe its because they DON'T sell as well. Its true that we have lots of documentation of what really happened, and some of the stories ARE great. But without "jazzing it up" would people watch? I'm beginning to think not so much. Say what you will about Hollywood, we have probably made a lot of the same comment, they ARE good at making money by delivering a product that sells. If the kind of product many have expressed a desire for doesn't exist, there is a reason, and I don't think it is because of a conspiracy.

Many here have raved about John Adams. As a lover of history, I liked it. I thought it dragged in a few places. For the history it was great. For entertainment it was so-so. Not what I'd pop into the DVD player for a friend and say "Hey, you gotta check this out."

Back to "historical accuracy." I put that phrase in quotes because I think you will agree that historical accuracy is kind of a relative term. Who writes "history?" The winners of course. Can we count on it being 100% accurate? More or less, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

I do think this was a good show in spite of its historical inaccuracy because as I have said before, the History Channel never claimed it was. In fact, if you go to the shows web page at http://www.history.com/shows/sons-of-liberty

It says the following:

SONS OF LIBERTY is a dramatic interpretation of events that sparked a revolution. It is historical fiction, not a documentary. The goal of our miniseries is to capture the spirit of the time, convey the personalities of the main characters, and focus on real events that have shaped our past. For historical information about the Sons of Liberty and the dawning of the American Revolution, please check out the links below.


On almost every commercial break they included a short spot to go learn about the real story. So they get people to watch by making a fictionalized action packed production, then tell them where they can learn more. To me that's a good thing.

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Please. The History Channel has a reputation for showing only marginally accurate works--even documentaries. Half the junk they show doesn't have a thing to do with history in the first place.

Sons of Liberty is fiction based on a historical event. That's all it is.

-----
It's dangerous business going out your front door.

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Yep the fake history channel. The only accurate history this channel does is WWI, WWII, VIETNAM WAR stuff. The rest is conspiracy loon bin therioes Alien Conspiracy report as fact by fake-ass scientists.

Hell I want them to do a 20/20 style documentary on the new species of Shark to be discovered in the Pacific, The rare Laser-shark or its cousin the sharktopus.

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You mean the history channel that also has the show called Vikings. I enjoy that show too but it's not sold as a documentary.

Pawn Stars?
Appalachian Outlaws?
Swamp People?
Ancient Aliens?
Cajun Pawn Stars?

Come on, this Channel is as much about entertainment as A&E.

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If you go to the board for Vikings, you'll find the same complaints about historical inaccuracy.

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I, personally, prefer some historical accuracy. What I'm hearing is not encouraging, so I think I'll pass for now and watch "John Adams" again instead. I thought even the commercials seemed strange and the use of Paint It Black as the theme song was odd.


"You are a smelly pirate hooker!"
"Why don't you go back to your home on Whore Island?"

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I, personally, prefer some historical accuracy. What I'm hearing is not encouraging, so I think I'll pass for now and watch "John Adams" again instead. I thought even the commercials seemed strange and the use of Paint It Black as the theme song was odd.

Why not give it a few minutes to find out for yourself rather than letting other people tell you what to think about it? Keep in mind that it was never billed as a documentary.

As to the choice of music, Painted Black was not the theme song. It was only used in the trailer. A lot of people got that wrong so maybe their opinions aren't quite as valuable as they might appear. The actual theme music was by Hans Zimmer.

And really, The Rolling Stones wasn't such an odd choice for trailer. They were a part of our music history known as The British Invasion. I find that rather symbolic, don't you? Painted Black is as good as any and probably better than most. Would have been really strange if they used The Beatles song I Want to Hold Your Hand. LOL

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I knew I recognized the theme. Hans Zimmer makes spectacular scores for movies. It almost MAKES the movie. A good movie with terrible score could easily flop.

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Just like pretty much every single cable network out there, the History Channel is trying to make money. It is simply entertainment. I doubt they cast Dean Norris as Benjamin Franklin because he loves history. So what if this was fiction, I really liked watching it. If people want to learn history, why are they watching TV anyway? Go to the library, read a book, or take a class. Even schools do not teach all the facts, growing up in my history class I was taught Paul Revere was the one who road into town and told everyone the British were coming.

If people cannot stand the inaccuracies in this show, they are more than welcome to change the channel to the Big Bang Theory or PBS.

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Even schools do not teach all the facts, growing up in my history class I was taught Paul Revere was the one who road into town and told everyone the British were coming.

Very true. And they are probably still teaching that George Washington chopped down his father's cherry tree. I just got a book from my brother Lies My Teacher Taught Me. Think I'll read it tonight.

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Very true. And they are probably still teaching that George Washington chopped down his father's cherry tree. I just got a book from my brother Lies My Teacher Taught Me. Think I'll read it tonight.


Yes, I remember being 'taught that' too. <Groan>

However, I remember having to memorize The Gettysburg Address in Jr. High School.
Of course we did not fully appreciate it then but, today I do.

In fact when I watch Ken Burn's 'The Civil War' I choke up when listening how Sam Waterston's (voice of Lincoln) version of reading/speaking it.

And it has been said in History that Lincoln's voice was 'High' so Sam Waterston's voice would NOT be accurate. LOL
Never the less it makes me choke up every time I hear his version of it...

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Thanks for the reminder about Lincolns voice. I too had heard he was on the squeaky side. And on the subject of voices, how about the Brits in every Revolutionary movie speaking with an accent that didn't exist in that era?

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rickathedj
Thank you so much for this comment. People are even arguing if they had cloths to cover their faces. Can you imagine the smoke, gunpowder, dirt, smell and even the bitter cold in battle? So many things happened we don't know, not like they had a video camera. We loved the series, I hope this isn't the only set they'll do.

~I say my prayers to a Rebel King~

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Fairhaven,
Thank you. Those who are complaining are completely overlooking what this show got right, and instead focusing on what are actually pretty minor details. I saw someone complaining about the depiction of Franklin being a drunk, but most of them did drink heavily. I saw one documentary in which a historian said that he was amazed the founding fathers got anything done with the amount they drank.

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Rickathedj,

Indeed! In fact water was shunned because clean water was difficult to find. Children were often given watered down beer or wine.

Before the discovery of microbes, empirical evidence showed that people who drank beer and wine got typhoid fever or dysentery less often than people who drank water. Distilled spirits were a premium and a lot of it was used to "fortify" beer or wine.

Wine was very hard to come by because it was nearly all imported from Spain. The "Little Ice Age" drove most wine making south into Spain and Italy and is why northern Europeans became good at brewing and southern France, Spain and Italy became good at making wine.

Beer and ale were made locally by the colonists who usually always kept a barrel on hand.

It wasn't just Americans who drank like fish the whole western world was inebriated because of the problem of clean water and not understanding the reason behind diseases.

Regarding the cloth or bandanas, if such a thing ever happened it would have been the militias who would have used them. British soldiers were drilled to be automatons and any modification of their uniform would have been seen as insubordinate - I highly doubt they would have used them. In any case, it would have been mentioned before since wearing a cloth over any part of your visage would have been seen as cowardly and surely have been used as propaganda fodder.

Side note: A small group of Springfield area Massachusetts distillers revolted after the American Revolution because they objected to being taxed - the original bootleggers.

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My father taught me that years ago when a family friend took up drinking wine because it seemed to be the beverage of choice in the Bible. He explained to me it wasn't because it was some kind of Godly drink, but because the water was so bad. Every time I see Back to the Future 3 I love the scene where he asks for a dink of water and they put a glass in front of him containing a murky brown liquid.

He also taught me about the Whiskey Rebellion. Funny how it wasn't long after we fought a revolution, in part over taxes, before some thought the new government was getting a bit excessive. I know Jefferson's quote about the tree of liberty needing to be fertilized from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants, but I think he also flat out stated that countries would be better off if there was a revolution every 20 or 30 years.

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Hearing Ben Franklin using the very modern term "bat-sh*t crazy" pretty much sums up the show for me. I really thought this would have been better.

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Hearing Ben Franklin using the very modern term "bat-sh*t crazy" pretty much sums up the show for me. I really thought this would have been better.

Funny that you call that a modern term. I had never heard those words strung together like that. I was under the impression that profanity has been around for quite awhile, perhaps even as far back as the revolution. But even if it wasn't, whats the problem with them using terms that would be more relateable to a modern audience? Is it the idea in general that Franklin would use profanity?

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