MovieChat Forums > Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018) Discussion > The critical difference between the fail...

The critical difference between the failures of the prequels and the sequels

posted 6 years ago by Arghhhh (804)
35 replies | jump to latest

The prequels disappointed, whereas the sequels have antagonised.

No matter the flaws of the prequels (and there were many) I was never insulted by them, either by the makers, the script or the press, and I was always left hoping the next one would be better and would fix the problems of the previous instalment.

And now? You'd have to go full ludovico on me to get me to see a Disney Star Wars.

And this is the difference. This is why Solo is bombing. If audiences were merely disappointed with TLJ they'd still be turning up but they're not, they're pissed off. And conversely, this is why TFA was so huge, because you had millions of people desperate for a Star Wars film to be good after 3 disappointments (so much so that many decided to simply give the film a pass for all its failings). This is how easy it is to make Star Wars movies. 3 poor movies in a row and the 4th earns $2B and gets the sympathy vote from audience and critics alike. Jesus Christ, is has taken serious effort to have a Star Wars movie lose money. And that might just be about the only interesting thing Disney have managed yet with Star Wars.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Very well said.

[–] maul (1635) 6 years ago

Also, the reaction of the creators. Lucas didn't start calling the fans manbabies, accusing them of being bigots, and saying that there wasn't a single piece of valid criticism.

Like many have said on YT, it's like going to a restaurant, getting served something horrible that you didn't ask for, then being accused of hating the women cooks if you didn't like it. I've never seen such a large company treat their customers so horribly, it's almost like Amy's Baking Company ffs, to continue that analogy.

It's amazing just how bad Solo is doing, most of us thought it would be Justice League level at the worst, and it's much lower. Of course, the media shills and Lucasfilm are never going to acknowledge the real cause here, which just pisses us off even more - so bravo.

[–] NotoriousRio (12927) 6 years ago

Nice observation, also the prequels never put me off Star Wars all together to the point I stopped watching like I have with the Disney movies, I lost enthusiasm for Star Wars with the prequels but it never got to the point where I hated this thang called Star Wars.

I watch films like Star Wars to be entertained and let my imagination fly, not to be preached to by lefties.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

The Prequels were not critical failures, not at first anyways. Even then, they are still not critical failures.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

Different usage of the word 'critical'.... I mean it here as in 'crucial'.

[–] pzogel (187) 6 years ago

'Insulting' is a very fitting term. I felt actually insulted after leaving the TLJ screening, as if it were a deliberate move to piss people off as much as possible.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

That's how I felt about TFA. Then I went home and read some of the reviews and the only thing I could think of was that amazing line from the Outlaw Josey Wales: "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining".

[–] pzogel (187) 6 years ago

TFA was merely disappointing for me. I think it's a terrible movie, but it's not an insult. TLJ is. It's almost as if there's something special to it.

[–] maul (1635) 6 years ago

Well, you have an interview with Roundhead where he's saying that he actually wants to piss off 50% of the audience, that he would consider that a great success. And look at his Twitter posts - the dude is a troll.

[–] pzogel (187) 6 years ago

I think he overachieved with TLJ, the hate rate is probably closer to 60%

[–] RussellNash (2087) 6 years ago

Very well said, Arghhhh! 👏

[–] FilmBuff (7234) 6 years ago

While you will no doubt have a number of vocal and enthusiastic posters on this board who agree with you, I think you are waaaay off base when it comes to the viewing public at large. The box office numbers and audience reactions bear this out.

The prequels are considered trash by nearly everyone other than a small, but very loud online, number of people. The suffered from terrible scripts with no momentum, and the films are over-stuffed with needless CGI, and are considered laughing-stocks by most. They destroyed the Star Wars brand to the point that Lucas had to turn the franchise over to Disney to have any hope of his blunders being undone.

The new films have energized the franchise, and have been massive hits. Detractors will say "The Last Jedi made less than The Force Awakens," but then, Empire Strikes Back made almost the exact same percentage less than Star Wars. A part 2 rarely outperforms a part 1.

Audiences are again EXCITED to see the next Star Wars film. That wasn't the case with the prequels at all. You and I both know that Part 9 will smash box office records.

Blaming Solo's box office on disappointment with The Last Jedi makes no sense. The Last Jedi was the 6th highest-grossing film of all time upon release, and while the two recent MCU films have surpassed it, it's still a massive hit by any measure. Solo fell victim to poor marketing, and being released at a time when films historically don't do well. Memorial Day is a weekend when people travel, not see films, and Solo is actually the 7th highest grossing Memorial Day weekend film of all time, and just $410k behind the 6th place film. Moreover, Solo is a solid film, and will no doubt prove itself over time, unlike your beloved prequels, which remain poorly made movies to this day.

[–] furiousstyles (4391) 6 years ago

I didn't go to the cinema to watch solo because I was so disappointed with the last jedi , I feel there are a number of people that skipped solo for this reason, the last jedi , that bastard film spoilt my outlook on Star wars , and by the way I enjoyed the force awakens a lot, but jedi was a cluster fuck of biblical proportions.

[–] FilmBuff (7234) 6 years ago

I was also disappointed by The Last Jedi in that it didn't live up to the quality of The Force Awakens, but knowing that Solo is from a different writer, different director, and telling a completely separate story, I was curious about it. I'm not generally a fan of action films/ CGI spectacles, so I wasn't 100% sure about seeing it, but I kept hearing good things from friends I trust, so I went and was surprised by how much I liked it.

What did you think of Solo?

[–] furiousstyles (4391) 6 years ago

I liked solo, it was slow in parts, loved the ending, will be buy.g it on blu ray when it's released

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

Ah 'Filmbuff', you know I didn't write that many words.... maybe, what 100? And being that I wrote so few the least you could do would be to spend the little time it would take to actually read them.

I made it abundantly clear that I feel the prequels have problems. This is in the title of the post - I'm talking about failure - so what point are you trying to make in listing issues with them? You also say 'blaming... the disappointment with the Last Jedi makes no sense' when the whole point of this post is that I'm saying it *wasn't* disappointment that was the issue. And what the hell are you on about when you say 'your beloved prequels'?

I'll tell you what you're on about: you're answering a post that doesn't exist, you're creating an alternative reality, a falsified argument which you can then critique and in doing so make yourself feel oh so very correct. It's the same technique your brain uses to convince yourself the sequels are good movies, it's an iteration on reality, a conceit.

So go back and read my post and this time use your God damn eyes instead of your imagination. And then do the same thing for TFA/TLJ.

[–] FilmBuff (7234) 6 years ago

I responded in disagreement to what you wrote. Your insults aren't changing my mind. I also note that you've edited your original post since my reply, so... there's that, too.

To reiterate:

The prequels are poorly made films that are reviled and ridiculed.

The two recent sequels have been well-made films, that were huge hits, and audiences loved them.

You seem to believe audiences were so pissed off by the sequels that they stayed away from Solo. I pointed out that's nonsense. Movies so bad they piss people off and put them off the franchise don't end up being the 6th highest-grossing film of all time, receiving an "A" rating from audiences, and garnering praise from 91% of critics.

Solo performed well above-average for a film released when it was, and it suffered from poor marketing and competition from several other blockbuster films, not from any made-up backlash against The Last Jedi.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

The two recent sequels have been well-made films, that were huge hits, and audiences loved them.

How is a derivative, poor cheap homage to ANH like TFA any better than an original story like any of the Prequels? People want NEW stuff, not a repeat of what they've seen before. And if I'm incorrect in that assessment, then those people are gullible and stupid and will accept any old crap.

Audiences loved TLJ? What are you smoking, FilmBuff?

[–] wilson24 (62) 6 years ago

Being original doesnt make them good. Attack of the Clones is the worst Star Wars movie ever. Worse than TLJ And TFW by far. Terrible acting, writing, dialogue, CGI...

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

(yawn)

More tired comments from Prequel haters. I'm not listening.

[–] wilson24 (62) 6 years ago

I dont hate the prequels, just Attack of the Clones. Its awful. The fact you would say otherwise is hilarious. And hypocritical.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Whatever you say, sheep.

It sounds to me like you're just a incredibly boring and stupid person who can't enjoy films with excellent music and special effects, great action, great lore and characters, a little bit of a childish nature mixed in with a dark and more mature nature to them, complex themes and storylines, etc.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

You didn't respond to what I wrote.
You responded to what you *thought* I wrote. You were - as Maul says - throwing up straw man arguments.
So now you've gone back and reread my post and instead of saying 'ah, I see what you're saying' you're diverging from reality even more by claiming I've edited my post after your reply. So please, tell me what it said? Did it by any chance say:

"I love the prequels and everyone who doesn't is a big poopy head!"?

Because that's what you seem to think I said.

And apparently I've insulted you now, more than once as well! Well take a look above and tell me where I insulted you? Or have I edited those away too?

Now I'm going to waste my time deconstructing your points (the actual points you're making, not ones I've just made up).

"The prequels are poorly made films that are reviled and ridiculed."

I never said they weren't and be that as it may, they were all massively successful.

"The two recent sequels have been well-made films, that were huge hits, and audiences loved them."

I never said they weren't and be that as it may, there are still lots of people who don't like them.

"Movies so bad they piss people off and put them off the franchise don't end up being the 6th highest-grossing film of all time, receiving an "A" rating from audiences, and garnering praise from 91% of critics."

Except when they do. TLJ had a fantastic opening weekend - no question - but opening weekends are (seeing as no one has seen the film yet) an indication of hype, anticipation and marketing. Star Wars as a brand has been failing the moment audiences actually got to see TLJ. The drop off was huge, the word of mouth was poisonous, China pulled it from cinemas after a few weeks, the toy sales collapsed, the RT audience score disastrous, the dvd sales are way below projections and the following film will now be the first Star Wars film ever to lose money. That's unheard of! That's like a Beatles album flopping. So enough with the excuses.

[–] maul (1635) 6 years ago

45% on RT and 4.5 on Metacritic is an A? You are living in a different reality. And if you give me the "bots" line I'm going to officially label you as a shill. Feel free to check the amount of ratings, they are no higher than TFA in total quantity. Feel free to check out the sheer amount of in-depth negative reviews, page after page by the thousands, all unique, detailing why this movie was shit.

Feel free to deny that the biggest thread for the last 4 months on one of the biggest SW forums (boards.theforce.net) was the hate thread for TLJ. Feel free to deny that entire careers on YT have been built on critiquing TLJ and calling for change at Lucasfilm. Feel free to deny the overwhelming amount of critique videos for TLJ on Youtube in general, with massive positive ratings and views.

Feel free to deny just how many people are boycotting (or are simply not interested in seeing) Solo because of TLJ, an entire movement generated by how bad TLJ was, and how bad Lucasfilm has been treating the fans. Feel free to deny just how horrible Solo is doing, beyond even our wildest expectations, and of course feel free to deny the reason why: that TLJ royally fucked everything up. Even some of the biggest SW shills (John Campea) aren't in denial anymore, and are now joining the call for Kathleen Kennedy to step down (one of his reasons was the massive division TLJ created, btw).

However, feel free to continue to be delusional, because if you still have these beliefs at this point, you are either so ignorant of what has gone on since TLJ that you literally must have been living under a rock, or are simply so inherently delusional that you will likely never accept reality again.

[–] maul (1635) 6 years ago

He's just another apologist throwing out strawmans, bullshit narratives, and excuses. The guy actually thinks the backlash against TLJ is "made-up". I would laugh if it wasn't so sad - to still have that delusion at this point, god damn...

[–] FilmBuff (7234) 6 years ago

Strawmen? Excuses? I'm responding directly, and politely, to what someone posted, and being called names for it like we're on a playground.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

What names are you being called?

The only name you've been called is 'FilmBuff'.

Which appears to be your name.

Well now I just feel sorry for you. I mean, what kind of shattered psyche regards their own name as an insult?

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

lol frog ...

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 6 years ago

A cogent read as usual, Arghhhh. My only real disagreement with you is that I felt antagonized by Midichlorians. While my irritation with Jar Jar and lil' Annie was needling in the red, it did not fit into the "antagonistic" intention. Just poorly executed/written/acted ideas.

I liked TFA but I have to admit that I overlooked many many flaws due to the psychological phenomenon you so aptly identified.

I didn't much care for R1 but enjoyed the action. Other than the Spanish named K2-SO, I did not like any of the characters in the film (well, OK, Mads is always perfect but he was hardly in it). In fact, I would probably have loved it were it entirely in Spanish.

Throughout these new movies I do feel like there is a bit of "screw you" attitude from the makers. The latest developments in the wake of TLJ (and TLJ itself) bare this out.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

Thank you, and if it makes you feel any better I once read a retcon that Midichlorians are simply attracted to the force as apposed to creating it in the first place. Makes that scene a little less antagonising...