I'm OK being monitored if it prevents terrorist attacks - Snowden (2016) Discussion

[–] palisade-1 8 years ago

Don't we need these technologies to fight terrorism?

No. In fact the sheer volume of information militates against discovering where the real threats lie. They had plenty of data on the 9/11 hijackers, on the Boston Marathon bombers, etc. etc., but these relevant data were buried under an avalanche of trivia, which is what they are collecting now. Their solution to trying to find a needle in a haystack was - literally - to bring in 10 million times the number of haystacks to hide the needle.

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[–] Rob-O-Cop 8 years ago

there's also the consideration that if your country is going the way of mass surveillance then maybe it's creating the conditions that make people turn to attacks. The solutions we choose can create more problems etc.

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[–] cableaddict 8 years ago

And don't forget that people like Joe McCarthy still exist. (One of them is about to become president.)

Suppose they decide that you're part of a group they don't like? If they decide to look at you, they will know virtually everything you've done, every site you'e visited, every email, every post on every website, every phone conversation. It's all being recorded and stored in huge servers.

Let's say you picket a Donald trump rally. So now they look at you, and search for any possible piece of incriminating data.

Maybe they arrest you. Maybe they deport you. Maybe they have you audited by the IRS.
Maybe they can't find anything illegal, so they just post all your intimate stuff on a public forum, to shame you & ruin your life...

etc, etc, etc......

Who's going to stop them? The government? They ARE the government.

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If you don't think this is a real possibility, then you are living under a rock.

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[–] alan-484 8 years ago

There are people like Hitler as well, one of them is finishing an 8 year rule in the US.

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[–] Slaid 8 years ago

You're really comparing Obama to Hitler?

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[–] nigelpryor-11440 8 years ago

This is possibly one of the dumbest posts I've read on here. In what way is Obama like hitler? I mean call him a bad president... thats fine.. but comparing him to Hitler is just plain stupid.

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

Good point. I wouldnt put it past Trump and his minions to engage in that sort of activity and there's no doubt Nixon WOULD HAVE if the technology had existed back then and let's not forget the Obama administration's wink-wink-nudge-nudge attitude that encouraged the IRS to go after specifically Conservative groups and organizations.

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[–] Xenopharb (617) 7 years ago

The IRS was going after groups that were illegally using the tax code to claim tax-exempt status when their primary activity was political. They targeted keywords that included more conservative groups than liberal groups, but both groups were targeted.

Many of these groups were using the their tax-exempt status improperly, but the IRS is not supposed to assume that by just the group's name using keywords.

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[–] Thought_Criminal_J62377 8 years ago

And don't forget that people like Joe McCarthy still exist. (One of them is about to become president.)

You actually mean, one of them just left the White House and is now seeking the spotlight as recreational adventure enthusiast.

The Barrack(Barry Soetoro) (Sadam) Hussein Obama (bin Laden) was the one that was selling us out to the Arabs and people like you are why I'm glad the IMDb boards are going down, because you delusional leftists just outright lie. And at least 80% of IMDb users are leftist idiots.

Like give me one quote where President Trump said ANYTHING to support your(Libtard) idiotic assertions that he's a white supremacist, yet you lying *beep* keep calling him that anyway. Just to reinforce the sheeps belief in your ideology.

Maybe they arrest you. Maybe they deport you. Maybe they have you audited by the IRS.
Maybe they can't find anything illegal, so they just post all your intimate stuff on a public forum, to shame you & ruin your life...

Oh, you mean like you Liberal *beep* do. I get it now. It's okay until it's turned against you mentally enslaved fascists. You idiots invented "shaming" then you invented triggers and safe spaces because you're all so superior and can't handle being on the receiving end of unpleasantries. You're a bunch of corrupt, hypocritical liars.

My Crime Is Prohibited Thought, My Oppressors Are Bleeding Heart Liberals

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[–] kiratsuki-l 8 years ago

Except it doesn't prevent terrorist attacks and it never will and Snowden has explained why. What it really is is a privacy disaster waiting to happen. It's a control system which under the wrong government would make communism look like kindergarten (speaking as someone who has 2 relatives die in communist concentration camps).

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[–] Amiri17 8 years ago

I get what you guys are saying.

But any technology can be used for bad, like a car, or the internet. You will always get someone who will use a new technology to break the law for their personal gain.

BUT, with the appropriate laws and regulations introduced these technologies could be vital in preventing a planned attack.

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[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

But any technology can be used for bad, like a car, or the internet. You will always get someone who will use a new technology to break the law for their personal gain.

That's not the point. The point is it's not being used for anything good. It's just used for personal and political gain.

BUT, with the appropriate laws and regulations introduced these technologies could be vital in preventing a planned attack.

Have you watched the movie? Are you really living in a Disneyworld where the fact a law exists somehow makes it unbreakable. Without enforcement, laws are useless. And when the enforcers are the ones breaking the laws, who's going to make them follow your "laws and regulations"?

And again, these technologies "could be vital" blah blah. "Could" or even "may" (it's actually closer to "might") doesnt justify just collecting info on millions of people just in case.

It's like saying people with blond hair are more likely to commit a crime so let's just put them all in jail because it could lead to a decrease in crime stats... and also you know what? We don't really know who's actually blond so let's also monitor everyone.

It's pointless. They are using your fears against you to make you accept anything.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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[–] Amiri17 8 years ago

And when the enforcers are the ones breaking the laws, who's going to make them follow your "laws and regulations"?

We all have to have just a LITTLE faith that 100% of our world leaders/special forces are not completely corrupt. Dont we?

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[–] cableaddict 8 years ago

No, we don't. And no, we shouldn't.

Open your eyes.

- Especially now with Adolf Trump & his cabinet of bigoted, power-crazed monsters in charge of everything.

Open them WIDE.

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[–] eYeDEF 8 years ago

We all have to have just a LITTLE faith that 100% of our world leaders/special forces are not completely corrupt. Dont we?

No, absolutely not. Because without transparency and accountability, checks and balances, power will be abused. This is just a fact of human nature.

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[–] zachast 8 years ago

We need to be careful with comments like this. The government can easily hire people to troll comment boards, or create chat bots. This is done to sway opinion, under the pretense that the bot or hireling is an genuine citizen voicing genuine views. It is worth keeping in mind, especially since the phrasing of this commentator is so suspect.

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[–] zachast 8 years ago

I meant the comments of Amiri17, or whatever they are called.

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[–] Amiri17 8 years ago

really though? have you guys lost the plot? lol

Son, Im not a government chat bot nor do I have any political affiliations, I assure you.

Im just trying to get across a valid point + have a discussion/debate about this movie!

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[–] piwara 8 years ago

This is exactly what a bot would say.

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[–] zachast 8 years ago

This is a government chat bot, trying to confuse and sway people. Comments here about technology, "like a car or the internet", are distractions

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[–] eYeDEF 8 years ago

It's also something that a real person, as naive as it may be, might actually say. The thing about bots created for that purpose is they are supposed to be indistinguishable from humans.

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[–] edgar959 8 years ago

Except when it's your own government doing the terrorism.

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[–] pait_mojo 8 years ago

this kind of mentality that makes that government reign over their people without any questions. I guess it's really true that some people just don't care about their rights and freedom if it's for "security", living in a cage with any stranger's eyes stalking over your every moves . . . .

Also Snowden and his freaking girlfriend clearly get monitored by his superior officer in the end of the movie. Another scenes when a banker got ruined from his information. Droning kids and families like it was nothing. Malwares and dragnets that were injected illegally in many countries!! that's a direct clear signs of international criminal activities by USA!! UN is functions to prevent this but is put on a chokes from USA itself. USA has already in war in many countries but without a declarations is a act of crime in itself for the so called "world's peace".

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[–] filmklassik 8 years ago

So the U.N in your opinion is going good work and has the interests of freedom and democracy at heart?

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[–] fede_4488 8 years ago

this kind of mentality that makes that government reign over their people without any questions. I guess it's really true that some people just don't care about their rights and freedom if it's for "security", living in a cage with any stranger's eyes stalking over your every moves . . . .

Well said.

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[–] sam_taylor_1 8 years ago

Ya what happens when/if your government turns into something it's not at the moment. Your government has the potential to be much, much more of a threat than terrorists. It sounds like tin foil hat type of stuff but it's happened in the past and it's happening now. Look at the Philippians for example, 2/3 of the people killed in the war on drugs is actually related to drugs. The other 1/3 of the people were dragged out of their beds in the night and killed all while being innocent civilians.

They can prevent terrorism without monitoring our every move, don't be convinced they need access to every aspect of everybody's lives in order to do so.

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[–] augurae 8 years ago

Then you don't deserve neither freedom or equality, nor security.

You deserve to have your rights revoked and die, so as long as you made that choice.

And you are the proof that freedom and rights are not absolute guarantees or merely choices, they are to be fought for against people like you.

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[–] Amiri17 8 years ago

what are you on about?

All im saying is I have nothing to hide because i'm not a weirdo on the internet. And with the right regulations and laws these technologies COULD be used for some sort of good.

You may not agree with that but its right, and renders the entire movie biased.

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[–] augurae 8 years ago

And I'm saying, that you deserve to die, not out of hate, but out of very pure logic.

It's not about having things to hide, it's about the fact that if you don't have anything to hide then it means you are nobody and you are nothing. But for other different people, and more importantly the day I decide for example that YOU, because I'm in the position to decide so, deserve to die, and the authorities agree and pursue you to kill you, then you'll have nowhere to hide.

And the thing is that when most people are conscious that they have nowhere to hide, is where they are deprived of their primordial right which is the unbiased freedom of choice, because everybody is afraid to think, to say, or to act in the "wrong way".

That's how we got nazism, and nobody said anything or very few resisted. There's a big lie that consist in saying that "people didn't know" about how terrible the war would be, about deportation and the Holocaust, but it's not true. People knew, but because they were scrutinised, monitored and censored, people stopped expressing themselves or anything so as long as he didn't match the mainstream train of thought.

And this is what's happening today on the internet, why do you think we are drowning in an ocean of *beep* mediocre, alienating, useless and almost creepy so much it's superficial, of selfies, photos, vlogs, snaps, posts...do you think everyone has gone mad? And where is the vast majority of people who little by little dare express themselves, less and less and less, or in truth are just posting the "acceptable" meaningless *beep* instead of what they really want? Because everyone has in part of their unconscious integrate the scrutiny and monitoring of their government. Also because you obviously never read 1984.

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[–] Amiri17 8 years ago

it's about the fact that if you don't have anything to hide then it means you are nobody and you are nothing

Really though? where did you get that from?

The fact that you didn't disagree with what I actually said in my previous post but went off on one proves that you acknowledge what I am trying to say here.

Peace god.

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[–] Slaid 8 years ago

I think you're both saying the same thing, to an extent, but in two very different ways. This technology could be used to prevent terrorist attacks, or whatever, but it's being used extremely inefficiently at the moment. Like another poster said, collecting data on everything just makes it that much more difficult to find what you're really looking for.

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[–] zachast 8 years ago

A government chat bot, spreading carefully phrased comments

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[–] taseron-1 8 years ago

All im saying is I have nothing to hide because i'm not a weirdo on the internet.

This is so selfish.

It's like saying;
"I'm not hungry so let the starving kids die. As long as I'm OK, I don't care"

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[–] Amiri17 8 years ago

It's like saying;
"I'm not hungry so let the starving kids die. As long as I'm OK, I don't care"

whats selfish is you being so uptight about your privacy rights you think your entitled to that a major atrocity killing thousands COULD potentially be prevented.

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[–] taseron-1 8 years ago

Looks like you have changed your opinion about it.

It was;
"All im saying is I have nothing to hide because i'm not a weirdo on the internet. `

Now it is;
"a major atrocity killing thousands COULD potentially be prevented. "

You were thinking selfish before, now you think about others.
Good progress...

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[–] Amiri17 8 years ago

nope,

its the title of this board ;)

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[–] taseron-1 8 years ago

You say A, then B,
and I say you have changed from A to B
and you say `nope`.

Sorry but you have no integrity.
Good luck with your `opinions`

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[–] Amiri17 8 years ago

Peace god.

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[–] shmn 8 years ago

this is not about security or feeling safe, this is about totalitarianism and imperialism, this about power that no man, country or any institution should have, history has shown over and over again that power corrupts, the initial reason to start a surveillance program like that might be upright, but over time this WILL and ALLREADY HAS been used for injust and selfish reasons

no! this is not for the greater good of mankind, fear is a bad counselor!

"forget your morals and principals?" ... please don't be so ignorant, inform yourself