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I don't think rape was considered a concept in Poldark's time

posted 8 years ago by IveGotASecret
12 replies | jump to latest

Either by men or women.

I just finished reading "Warleggan" and there was a scene where Ross is in Demelza's bedroom and he thinks about how he could force himself on her and how she would only put up a token resistance, but ultimately he decides not to do that.

This is the passage: He knew he could take her if he wanted, and her resistance would only be token; yet the token was there, and while it existed the reconciliation would be ashes.

And when I read that, I'm commenting, "Yeah, just like Elizabeth." And it's absolutely the same mentality that O'Neil has when Demelza is telling him she doesn't want to do this and he starts trying to force himself on her. It takes her biting his hand to get him to finally back-off and basically blame her for not putting out. Then you've got Sir Hugh and Sir John outside her door tossing a coin to see which one will get the shot to rape her, since they feel she invited them up there and wants it. It was a good thing she climbed out the window and escaped all these guys. But the rub is afterwards Demelza doesn't even seem to blame O'Neil for his behavior towards her.

It makes Ross no different from O'Neil, Sir Hugh and Sir John. They all seem to share the same mentality. Because of how a woman acted towards them [Elizabeth telling Ross she realized she loved him instead of Francis, and Demelza acting flirty towards these men] even if they try to fight them and push them away when they want to have sex it's just a token resistance.

But at that point in history men could do stuff like that and it wasn't considered rape to them or the women, apparently. It wasn't that long ago marital rape wasn't even recognized as being raped.

[–] josephmramirez 8 years ago

I think the discussion in your post is essentially correct. The title of the post is misleading, however. Rape was a felony (a capital crime, in fact) under English common law. But a husband could not rape his wife under the law.

[–] A-Checkered-Life 8 years ago

Joseph,

That is also how I understood the rape law in England; yet, wasn't it still had to prove? It the woman were poor, lower class, without family or support, would anyone have cared. Were the laws made to protect "good women" of certain classes or standards/

It has not been that many decades since courts in America still accepted defaming comments about the type of clothing that women or girls wore as being a reasonable excuse for their attacks and if they had been drinking.

Just being born female is still a reason for assault in many countries.Young males are also vulnerable.

There is so much tension for us humans now in being alive, safe, and well that we have accepted as part of life. I doubt that many of us are even aware unless there is threat, which is probably a good thing and a healthier coping skill than being conscious of being on alert 24/7.

Thanks for your response.

A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.

[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 6 years ago

I believe any type of criminal accusation now, rape included, still needs to be proven. At least I hope so, I would hate it to be the law to send someone to prison or the death penalty without proof and only on someone's word.

[–] meerschweinchen_freunde 8 years ago

But a husband could not rape his wife under the law.

And that is what makes the whole Whitworth-Chynoweth marriage in The Black Moon, The Four Swans and The Angry Tide so tragic. Poor Morwenna is forced by George to marry Osborne Whitworth and in order to keep him away from her she has to threaten to kill her and Osborne's son.

[–] tleefent 8 years ago

And that is what makes the whole Whitworth-Chynoweth marriage in The Black Moon, The Four Swans and The Angry Tide so tragic. Poor Morwenna is forced by George to marry Osborne Whitworth and in order to keep him away from her she has to.

Just out or mere curiosity, how does George force Morwenna to do this? It won't spoil anything for me to know even though I've not read all the books yet.

[–] MarmaladeT 8 years ago

I can't remember precisely from the book, but in Oldark George (and Elizabeth) used psychological 'force' by reminding Morwenna that her mother was poor and had other daughters to care for, stressing all they'd done for her and on top of which George had Drake arrested for allegedly stealing Geoffrey Charles' bible (with a silver clasp worth more than £40) (he didn't). Later, Morwenna told Aunt Agatha 'they'd' (George et al) rushed it through in 3 days, leaving her no time to speak to her mother or properly explain her misgivings about the 'match'.

[–] mmarriaga 8 years ago

I also think Morwenna felt like she had to agree to the marriage in order for George to drop the charges against Drake.

So was a gun placed to her head while she said her vows, no... But there was VERY heavy persuasion and manipulation by the Warleggans. Morwenna held off as long as she could, but caved when Drake was arrested. That arrest had the potential to ruin the rest of Drake's life.

[–] MarmaladeT 8 years ago

That arrest had the potential to ruin the rest of Drake's life.

Indeed - in Oldark, George told Ross that the charge had a death penalty because of the value of the item. Ross told George that this was the declaration of war that Ross was trying to avoid and that he would feel no compunction to sway the locals in their hatred for George, that Ross was a gambler whereas George was not and was he (George) not concerned about that one man, unhinged because of George's treatment of the locals, who was prepared to risk his neck in an effort to get rid of George. George decided he was not a gambler and withdrew the charges against Drake.

[–] mmarriaga 8 years ago

You are correct, though we never know if Ross's threat against George is the main or only reason George drops the charges. It also gave him the leverage he needed to get Morwenna to marry Witworth. He really wanted the connection to the Godolphins(sp?), enough to give Witworth a nice chunk of money to marry her. Was it 3,000 pounds? Anyways, Morwenna was unaware of Ross's threat and probably felt as if only she could save Drake.

[–] meerschweinchen_freunde 8 years ago

In the The Black Moon Morwenna is unaware of Ross' threat and how that is the reason why Drake is released but she is also unaware that George decides to force her to marry Osborne Whitworth in exchange until Elizabeth tells her to change her frock because the Whitworths were coming to see her. Of course she is shocked and upset but Elizabeth treats her like a child and tells her to be grateful because they didn't want her life to ruined by her "infatuation" with the miner. When Morwenna asks not to see Osborne Whitworth until after she sees her mother Elizabeth tells her that she can't do that. Then Morwenna's mother who wants her to marry Whitworth because of her poverty and she is more concerned with her daughter's position in society than her happiness tells her that she is still exceedingly young and wishes that she could put an old head on young shoulders. So poor Morwenna has her youth and poverty used against her to force her into a marriage with a man she finds distasteful and suffers from PTSD from the marriage after she left a widow.

[–] Jobimfan (95) 6 years ago

An aside, another difference between the 1976 series and this one is that George forces this marriage and just assumes that Morwenna will just be stuck in a marriage with a man who bores her. When she tells George and Elizabeth What Withworth did to her, George seems genuinely horrified and I think he and Elizabeth are a bit ashamed of the part they played.

[–] Jobimfan (95) 6 years ago

Rape, as a concept, did exist, hell, they even talk about it in the Bible. What has changed is society defines it and that change has only occured over the past 40 years or so. T

One of the most famous scenes in Gone with the Wind involves marital rape. We see Rhett Butler carry Scarlett, his wife, up the stairs and he says something like, she's not going to turn him away at the bedroom this time. There was also no thought to acquaintance rape or any kind of rape without explicit physical force. There were class issues, a wealthy man like Ross could coerce or even force a servant or slave to have sex with them with no reprisals.

(It reminds me of an old pop song from the 1970s that had the lines, "If her daddy's rich, take her out for a meal/If her daddy'a poor they just do what you feel. There's just something vaguely sinister about that line.)

So if you were a woman (because men never got raped back in those days, right?) you had better be beaten and bloody, you better be a "nice, respectable girl/woman, and the man had to be from your class or lower or it just wasn't rape.