Well... just finished it... - Phantasm: Ravager (2016) Discussion

[–] shadeofeternity 8 years ago

I'm still trying to make sense of the ending. While it's very clear that he dies in one world, the continuance of the other suggests the events are very true. On the same note, if you think about, the apocalypse planet may just be the "afterlife" in its own way. Everyone there, Jody included, "died" at one point or another, sans Rocky (who may also be very dead). If I have any more thoughts.. I'll post them.

reply

[–] LocoRon 8 years ago

I don't know, man. I don't know....

Hopefully someone does....

reply

[–] alesisqs61 8 years ago

There are no words to describe a 35+ year long wait. Then this comes along....

http://www.youtube.com/user/UCpCwer0R-QR3GcAH3vvYuow
https://soundcloud.com/#carjet-penhorn

reply

[–] doctorarzt 8 years ago

They played very loose with the introduction of quantum physics concepts, many worlds, membrane theory etc., which makes it hard to understand, but here's how I understood it:

Dementia Reg was experiencing bits of each alternate universe. The clue that they weren't connected is in Dawn, who is an entirely different person in the apocalypse dimension. The only constant is Dementia Reg. While Dementia Reg enters different universes, they do not 'enter' him. Dementia Reg steps into their shoes temporarily.

Dementia Reg has one goal, not defeating the Tall Man but being reunited with Mike and Jody. He ultimately gets what he was after. There are some clues that Dementia Reg is the DEFINITIVE Reg. To me the biggest is that he has memories of all Phantasm timelines. Reggie who lost his wife and daughter would not have remembered encountering the lady in lavender because those are two separate timelines/dimensions.

As for the mid-credits scene, I don't put much stock in it. It's merely a little glimpse at the apocalypse dimension continuing on in its dimension. We know there isn't going to be another film, we know that there are 10's of thousands of tall men and possibly infinite dimensions where he exists or doesn't exist, so to quote the tall dude himself: "It's never over."

We saw the trio come together for the passing of Reg, that's the ending and closure in my mind as a phan of this series. The tidbit that somewhere, out in another dimension, the same trio is together again fighting the tall man is more of kiss to the fans. Don't worry, yes Reg is dead and there is a Universe where all is well and there is no Tall Man, but the story doesn't necessarily have to come to an end.

If you think about it, it's the kind of ending that could only happen in a Phantasm film, which makes it perfect imho. But, it's sure to be divisive.

reply

[–] alesisqs61 8 years ago

You explain it the best, but I still don't think the movie deserved the quality that Ravager offered. Go watch John dies at the end and tell me which looks better.... nuff said.

http://www.youtube.com/user/UCpCwer0R-QR3GcAH3vvYuow
https://soundcloud.com/#carjet-penhorn

reply

[–] shadeofeternity 8 years ago

I think it's a very interesting take on it and I believe you're spot on that Dementia Reg is stepping into the shoes of different takes/incarnations of himself from different timelines. However, I'm not 100% convinced that they aren't all part of one semi-coherent sequence of events which the meddling of the Tall Man has caused to become very much like a semi-lucid acid trip. Similarly, at the beginning of the Dementia Reg's plot (epic name by the way), Mike clearly states that Jody's dead and yet at the time of his death, he's very evidently not dead. This could, naturally, be a consequence of said dementia but I'm still mulling the movie over. I'll have to watch if a few more times before I arrive at my own conclusion. That said, I really appreciate your contribution in this way.

reply

[–] Necroburn 8 years ago

I don't mind the issues with the story or how it ended. I thought the story was alright.

Where's the recap and clips of the first 4 at the beginning? Where's the slow reveal of the PHANTASM title and then the appearance of the subtitle/number?

How come the camera is zooming in an out half the time with horrible "woosh" effects or an obviously digital pan and scan? These are things that DID NOT REQUIRE MONEY to execute correctly, yet they chose to do it?

It's Phantasm, the story goes out the window, but the execution is important. You can make something look really good for less of a budget than these guys had. I love Phantasm and I'm happy we got Ravager, but it's not worth the wait.

You don't need a budget to hold a camera correctly, you don't need a huge budget to edit correctly (WHIZ-BANG! WOW! PHANTASM RAVAGER TITLE! ZOOM WOOSH!) and you don't need a lot of cash to accomplish basic lighting.

Digging to the rhythm and the echo of a solitary siren.

reply

[–] rhager-73567 8 years ago

This is probably the best explanation I've read yet. In my mind, the definitive Reg (or, master Reg) may have passed away but somewhere out there in another universe or dimension, Reg lives on with his buddies Mike and Jody. The Tall Man, wonderfully played by Angus Scrimm, is the representation of Death or, the reaper, as it were. As a whole, I would love to see this as the final entry, (although I was part of a small minority who actually enjoyed the ending to P4) because Angus is no longer with us to fill out that dark suit. Jody died in a car wreck in P1. Mike died in P4. Now P5 is Reg's swan song. Let's leave it at that. No reboots. No sequels. No new cast. Let Phantasm die with dignity.

reply

[–] obsidianproductions 8 years ago

You can't die with dignity, you can only live with it.

And whatever Ravager was, it was NOT dignity.

reply

[–] Carrigon 8 years ago

At first, I thought he didn't get away and The Tall Man had him trapped for the whole movie and was just playing mind games on him. But I do think the multiverse is probably what's going on. The gateways access multi-dimensions. It's probably the best explanation we'll ever get.

I was disappointed in the choppiness of the story and thought it was a very weak script. I can overlook the low budget and uber low quality, but this needed a much stronger script. I don't feel we got real answers to anything. It was just a cloud of smoke with some old characters we got to see again. Disappointing.

http://www.sims2workshop.com

reply

[–] chet19 8 years ago

Myrtle the maid was the killer.

reply

[–] HellboundHero 8 years ago

I liked maybe about 3/4ths of it. The climax was poorly thought out and cheesy, but I knew from the start that the effects-heavy portions would look very cheap, especially the red planet and the giant sphere invasion.

reply

[–] bnsenuf 8 years ago

I watched it this weekend, with great anticipation, and like most who posted here, was very disappointed. BUT.... reading some of your theories, I will need to re-watch it with the idea that this is all in Reggie's mind. Jody DID die in #1, Mike died in #4, and their appearances here may well be explained by Reggie's deteriorating mind. Not to mention I would assume that the effects of dementia WOULD feel like having your head stuck between the 2 posts for an extended period of time. It would explain the jumping from "reality" to "reality" his mind coming in and out of clarity and the frustration and shock, (as if waking up from a dream) that he experiences when he comes to the Hospital reality.

the ending of the dwarf guy coming through the portal to see Rocky there (who I'm pretty sure died in #3 haven't seen it in awhile), and then them all getting into the Cuda could be them all meeting up in the after life. Its a common belief that you make your own heaven or hell, it could be that this is their combined wish for what they want in their after life. All together as friends and fighting the "good fight" forever.

thank you all for your insights, this is the reason I come to these boards in hopes of finding great threads like these. (as opposed to just hateful posts)

reply

[–] mskelly-4 8 years ago

I think Reg was imprisoned from the time he ran after the Tall Man in 4 (or possibly after the confrontation on the ledge here...btu that dosen't explain why he's back in the ice cream suit or the wrong car). Everything until he wakes up and is rescued i nthe lab is a dream created by the Tall man. But because it messes wit hyou, the dream sticks to him a little - that's why we keep flashing back. Reggie's death is him finally breaking free of the dream. He's awake now- in the world of Phantasm's end. It's why he never came back for Mike, who continued to fight after the Tall Man finally got what he wanted from him (never clear on what it was I admit). I assume Jody is the sphere from 3 ( with 4 being an imposter).

reply

[–] bradp56 8 years ago

The explanation in this thread is one of the bests.

It makes me think that basically the Tallman gave Reggie the option to choose which dimension he wanted. The Tallman offered him his wife and kids but after he realized he wouldn't take it without Mike and Jodi then the Tallman let him choose to die peacefully or wake up and continue to fight in the ravaged world. Reggie being the Ravager chose to continue fighting.

And unfortunately that is it, they chose to go up north where its cold and where they would have an easier fight against the Tallman and his minions and eventually it will end with their deaths at some point.

reply

[–] horrorgasm 8 years ago

This is the theory I would LIKE to believe is true, but I get the feeling that in reality, it's not as complex as we're wishing it was.

Something about the way it ended bothered me. Well, many things, but specifically that everything fell together too conveniently and ideally. Reggie finds Mike and he is, counter to everything we have seen in the past, magically completely fine and healthy, and then Jodi shows up, magically alive and healthy, in a frickin armored muscle car with gatling guns, and then even beyond that Rocky shows up alive and well to hop in with them out of nowhere and even the midget dude, who absolutely could not possibly in any world have survived a half dozen grenades exploding on him, is fine and amazingly cheerful for being maimed and burned all over.

It just felt like masturbatory wish fulfillment. Oh hey look Reggie, Mike's fine, Jodi's fine, here's a cool car and a chick for you, and oh good even the midget dude is ok! and like previous commenter says, of course Reggie wants to keep fighting. As much as he complains about it, he's damn good at it, and it's given him a purpose in life beyond just being some ice cream man.

and this means 1 of 2 things. 1: Reggie really did die in the old folks home and this was just his last fantasy of a happy ending or 2: that was the real world and this wanky fanfiction ending was serious and David Hartman thought this would be a good way to end things, and let me tell you, I don't know which of those I find more depressing.

reply

[–] rogerwatersfan3 8 years ago

*SPOILERS*

I believe the key to understanding the whole thing is the exchange between Mike and Reggie at the rest home, regarding the quantum physics / time streams.

There are as many Reggies and Mikes and Jodys as there are Tall Men, in the different time streams. But The Tall Man has mastered slipping between them at will, whereas the rest of us mere mortals are at a loss as to how.

Since The Tall Man is a representation of the Grim Reaper, or Death, he can't be defeated in the traditional sense. But he can be transcended. Reggie's "heaven" is finding himself in a time stream where he is reunited with Mike and Jody. Even though he is locked in a never ending battle, he is thoroughly engaged in that battle (he WAS on the verge of giving up before that), and that is the culmination of his journey. The reward is the reunion at the end, not a "victory" in the true sense, but an emotional and spiritual victory.

I felt it was about saying "yes" to your circumstances, whatever they may be, and remaining engaged with life.

It's my favorite of the sequels after part II.

reply

[–] horrorgasm 8 years ago

That much I understood, but the question then becomes: why would Tall Man send Reggie on this journey that ultimately leads to Reggie getting exactly what he wants in life? That seems uncharacteristically generous of him and it seems like a whole lot of effort just to illustrate the point that a single Reggie's life is better with the Tall Man in it than without it.

I suppose you could theorize that the Reggie of the post-apocalyptic future reality switched minds with our Reggie? That future Reggie was tired of it all and ready for the end, so was replaced by ready to fight Reggie? but then there's the same question. Why would the Tall Man orchestrate this and/or give Reggie(s) this choice? All just to keep Reggies at Mikes' sides for reasons that will never be explained? Argh.

I admit, all this theorizing is making me appreciate this movie a little more, but the answers (or lack of) are still so unsatisfying no matter how I interpret them...

reply

[–] rogerwatersfan3 8 years ago

My interpretation (and sorry if it doesn't give a definitive answer enough to satisfy you, as I suspect it might not):

(Just one of many possible interpretations)

The Tall Man didn't send him on that journey. He just happened into it, in the first movie, when Mike and Jody stumbled on the Tall Man's plot and dragged him along for the ride.

There are as many Reggies, Jodys and Mikes as there are Tall Men. But the Tall Man knows how to navigate the different time streams, and our heroes are just learning. May take lifetimes, and they may die in some time streams before they die in others.

The Tall Man is on this same journey, he is just further along in his understanding of how to use the forks, and seems to have either overcome death or so far eluded it, staying a few steps ahead of them the whole time. Reggie may have achieved something similar at the end, or he may be hallucinating a death dream just before he dies.

So he has either joined Jody (dead in the time stream of 1979) and Mike (dead in the time stream that ends with Oblivion) and resides in what can best be called an "afterlife"...or...

He hasn't quite died yet, like Jacob in Jacob's Ladder, and we are seeing what happens in his mind as he does...or...

He is what I think he is...a Reggie that exists in every time stream and experiences reality based on which time stream he chooses subconsciously to reside in. The Tall Man offers him a chance to go back to 1979, before all of this happened, and he chooses instead to go forward, not back. There are a multitude of possibilities for him as a result. In making that choice, he is becoming one step stronger. His choice becomes CONSCIOUS rather than SUBCONSCIOUS and he is one step stronger in being able to consciously choose his time streams, as The Tall Man does.

He is already stronger in the sense that he understands loyalty, a concept that confuses and frustrates The Tall Man, who may claim that he kept Reggie around for his amusement...but is going to have to face him over and over again.

reply