MovieChat Forums > Phantasm: Ravager (2016) Discussion > No closure...another cliffhanger...pisse...

No closure...another cliffhanger...pissed off.

posted 8 years ago by cybermonster_8
29 replies | jump to latest

This is the last chance we had at seeing a closing of the Phantasm story. Angus Scrimm is dead now, the budget and talent for these films is at an all time low, Reggie and Mike I don't think can wait around for another one. This was a movie made for the fans, but why were we screwed over with such a terrible narrative and non-ending? The whole midget guy allah akbaring himself to Tall Man was nowhere even close to having any kind of punch to it. We got no answers to any of the questions...we never found out what Tall Man is, what he wants, or how he can be stopped.
God dmmit this sucks. Why didn't Coscarelli reach out to the fans to crowd fund this? He would have gotten more than what this film scraped together. Coscarelli has failed the fans.
Now all that is left to look forward to is the blu rays, and the inevitable platinum dunes remake.

[–] brucelee-38476 8 years ago

you make some valid points some silly ones this film did provide closure it just may not be the closure you want theres at least 3 ways this movie is made to be interpreted one the whole franchise is in reggies head an he has dementia an the end he dies the end another he dies an the phantasm films are like his afterlife of being with his loved ones on adventures last its all real an the whole dementia thing is a trick by the tall man to throw him off an the end he reunites with the loved ones an rides off to keep fighting there has never been clear cut answers in these films an now heres more questions but this film provides enough to be closure its just up to you to pick your ending

[–] cybermonster_8 8 years ago

Those other realities were not real. The film at least showed that. Reggie was under a spell, and if he died in that hospital dimension he'd have died in all the other ones. Remember when Mike died? It was no illusion or fake out. He died and Tall Man revived him.

[–] brucelee-38476 8 years ago

i think your not understanding they arent meant to be seen as other dimensions unless thats how you see them the stuff with reggie with dementia is meant to mean maybe this is whats really happening an the phantasm movies are just fake dreams off his because he wants to be with his loved ones its not meant to be different dimensions youe thinking about the other films in comparision to this thats not how its supposed to work each phantasm film adds more to the story but each film has a different meaning which means what you learned to be true in the last film dosent have to be true here everything you ever saw in the films could all be just a big dream from reggie having dementia thats why when jody shows up in the car to save them it also shows jody by reggies hospital bed while he dies its meant to confuse you an make you think thats the whole point it means what even you want the film gives you three options either its all real or he has dementia an dies thinking off being with his friends or he dies having dementia an is with his friends in some sort of afterlife your thinking of alternate dimensions trying to connect the film to the others when thats not what its trying to go for this film is a way were if you are a person who wants the phantasm universe explained your answer is reggie is crazy an imagines it the end an if that makes you mad lol then i can see you hating it but that is why the entire dementia plot is there to make you think maybe the entire franchise isnt real not to think its another dimension

[–] dean2900 8 years ago

The problem is that this movie was left so open on so many fronts that different viewers will interpret the ending differently and there is no correct answer.

I normally don't mind open endings in movies but when you are the 5th movies spanning 40 years, I feel like there should be an definitive ending which was supposed to be the whole point of this film.

I don't mind the non linear story either. I feel like that might be the best thing it has going for it but there was still no reason they could not have wrapped it up in neatly and left no doubt as to what happened.

I was really hoping towards there was a plot twist towards the ed that would have changed the narrative,

It don't know how much was left on the cutting room floor but it certainly feels like they could have edited this movie better.

I think they knew the movie was garbage which is probably why it took so long to release.

At this point, i would rather see the Phantasm story sold and see if someone else can reboot the series and give it a decent budget.

I cant understand with all the remakes and reboots done by Hollywood why many people would be against it but it is not like a reboot would destroy the original movies. I wouldn't mind see a reboot in the 25m budget range. That would allow for good special effects. I realize a reboot would never have the same feel as the original but there are a flot of different things that could be explored from the true motivations.

Maybe I am wrong but I think a bigger studio would love to buy the rights to the Phantasm stories. These movies are creative and unique.

I even think that the first Nightmare on Elm Street movie used Phantasm as the inspiration for parts of it.

Dean

[–] anthonyloman 8 years ago

Some stories just are better left unfinished. Maybe the tallman is an eternal evil like the devil that can never be defeated. Maybe they were on a shoe string budget and coudln't afford a big battle scene who knows, just be happy with what you got .

[–] cybermonster_8 8 years ago

We didn't need a big battle scene. We didn't need a lot of money. I just wanted some answers and some closure!

[–] brucelee-38476 8 years ago

your still missing the point the film is closure the closure of the franchise is if you want a explanation of the franchise its either all fake from reggies mind because he has dementia or its all real an hes reunited with his friends to fight evil forever thats the closure the point of the film is the never ending friendship of the 3 the fact they will never stop an neither will the tall man thats the ending the power of the love of friends either them staying with reggie while he dies from dementia or being with him to fight the tall man in the end the point of the film is this entire franchise could all be a dream of reggies lol but either way all 3 of these guys are there for each other thats what your supposed to take away

[–] HellboundHero 8 years ago

I wish there was at least some indication that they were trying to come up with a way to stop the nearly infinite supply of Tall Men and his forces from coming through the gates, rather than their solution simply being destroy every Tall Man, dwarf, graver, and sphere in sight. Why sacrifice yourself to kill one of possibly millions of the same hive-minded being?

[–] brucelee-38476 8 years ago

that would have been a more straight forward idea if it was me i would have went to find the star of were the clones come from there has to be a machine or creature that makes them meaning theres a head to the snake an if its killed then the others should die as well or you kill the head an then go to finish off the rest or hell just blow up the tall mans dimension an maybe all the other tall men will go with it if the bombs big enough there are quite a few ways to defeat the tall man that they havent done yet hell if he hates cold why not make some sort of cold bomb trick him into bringing all his copies to the same spot blow them away lol but either way there has to be a head of the snake a main tall man who made the others or some creature who did that can be destroyed lol

[–] radb707 8 years ago

I totally thought Mike was going to do something with the gold sphere to mess up the Tall Men real good or something. But it just flew off and its importance not even explained. Bummer.

[–] radb707 8 years ago

Maybe the tallman is an eternal evil like the devil that can never be defeated.

The Tallman represents Death, so you're basically right. The first one was about death in the mind of a young boy and this one is about death in the mind of an aging man. I'm disappointed about the lack of concrete answers, but I like the different interpretations you can make. The Tall Man basically gives Reggie the choice of dying peacefully with his family but Reggie chooses to go out fighting, which he also says earlier to Mike at the hospital. He denies death, just like Mike denied the death of his brother. There are many ways to look at it and also look at the series.

Maybe it's how Reggie is remembering his life in his dementia. Jody dies, Reggie's family dies, eventually Mike dies, Reggie is left alone, and in his mind he views Death as the ultimate villain. He killed all his friends and took everything from him. He's killing the whole world. Death is everywhere and he can't be stopped. And notice that Chunk didn't die despite having the grenades ON him lol. In Reggie's post-death adventure they don't have to.

[–] HellboundHero 8 years ago

I agree. I liked most of the movie, but that was probably the worst part. The confrontation on the red planet was not well thought out, IMO. And why were Mike and Reggie in such a hurry to escape through the gate? They were just grenades and this was all happening on the other side of a canyon, the explosion wouldn't have reached them.

[–] brucelee-38476 8 years ago

how would you feel if they made another one with a great script high budget but had to use a different tall man would you except it

[–] HellboundHero 8 years ago

I think so, as long as the new Tall Man actor resembled Angus Scrimm closely enough. Ravager seemed to acknowledge that the Tall Man has aged since the first movie when Reggie flashes back in time to that sanatorium with Jebediah Morningside. Gradually, Jebediah goes from speaking as the friendly old inventor to taking on a more menacing, Tall Man-like tone, while speaking of how his body is almost finished. I don't know how this can be reconciled with all the parallel universe versions, though.

I doubt it'll happen. They(Don Coscarelli and the surviving cast) would probably consider it disrespectful to recast the Tall Man in a sequel and most likely, if there's another movie, it will be a reboot.

[–] radb707 8 years ago

This Tall Man was so digitally augmented it was basically a different Tall Man anyway lol. I seriously believe they used a body double and shopped Angus Scrimm's head on it in far away shots when the Tall Man is walking. In the scenes with Reggie, it also seemed like they just copied and pasted a picture of Tall Man from a distance. Unless y'know, in the scenes with Old Morningside, Angus had a fit body and his old man bod was special effects. Sarcasm intended. It would just suck not to have Angus Scrimm's performance, which was top form here.

[–] cybermonster_8 8 years ago

Their should be no excuse for bad storytelling. Despite the flaws of the previous four, they told their stories in a coherent manner and you knew what the hell was going on. I don't buy for a second that it was all in Reggie's head and he died in a hospital. They've done the whole it was all a dream twist a few times in this series only to immediately subvert it. It may seem like a dream, but it is all happening.

Coscarelli and Hartman screwed up big time, and should be held accountable for this mess of a film. Hartman obviously had no idea what he was doing, and Coscarelli wrote a crappy script that nobody checked over before it went into production.

[–] brucelee-38476 8 years ago

your still not thinking properly about the film the fact you dont buy its not reggies dementia an that its real is what you took away thats the point of this film it offers different explanations an you pick one your problem is you wanted a real answer a one an done true answer to explain it thats not what the series is an no the other movies had truck loads of things that still make no since thats the point it is made to be what ever you want it to be an so is this one the franchise isnt about beating the tallman the battle will never end this movie is about the fact the friends love each other its the bond of friends thats how its the finale its saying good by with the group together it was never about beating the tall man the fight between them an the tall man is eternal its about the love of the friends thats the message of the film an what you take away either they are together at his bedside or they are together fighting evil you want a basic end with everything explained an the tall man dead thats not this franchise

[–] MovieKnut 8 years ago

Ever get the feeling you have been St. Elsewhered?

You can't palm off a second-rater on me. You gotta remember I was in the pink!

[–] disinter 8 years ago

OP was right. For a "final" film there should be closure. If not it's just another sequel except this time there won't be another one.

[–] brucelee-38476 8 years ago

the closure is the friends being together threw thick an thin the whole tall man thing was never the real meaning of the franchise hes just a metaphor

[–] disinter 8 years ago

the closure is the friends being together threw thick an thin

Then they could've ended it with the first one and not have any sequels at all.

[–] brucelee-38476 8 years ago

no because the first ended with a shock ending this ends with friends together

[–] TakeARisk 8 years ago

It's not a cliffhanger. Reggie died and so his dream / phantasm with him. It's all over.

[–] disinter 8 years ago

It's not a cliffhanger. Reggie died and so his dream / phantasm with him. It's all over.

Well the end scenes during or after the credits imply it's all still going on plus this movie is quite adamant there are many different realities going on at once so whose to say the one where reg died was the defining one?

[–] victor_laurant 8 years ago

When he died, Jody was with him, so that can't be real, once he was dead in the car accident. And if he really was dead, his dream / phantasm should ended there, and doesn't existing anything after. My theory is that was a 'Phantasm' created by the tall man, to confusing him, and make him give up, but without success. And the fight is going on...

[–] brucelee-38476 8 years ago

no jody being there could just mean reggie has had dementia since the first an the whole jody being dead was all part of his dementia

[–] victor_laurant 8 years ago

At the first scene on the nursing home, Mike says that Jody dies and that Reggie takes care of him, just like he said that would do in the first film. So it wasn't part of any "dementia".

[–] Simian_Jack 8 years ago

There's closure of plot points and closure of emotional resonance. I just got home from seeing it that the Hollywood Theater in Portland, Oregon, and definitely feel closure. Speaking only for myself, I did not want most of the questions answered - part of the allure of these films has been that it sparks our imagination, prompts us to wonder what the solutions might be. The more that's explained, the smaller that universe becomes. Screw that, let it live im my imagination. let it remain vibrant and alive.

Closure? I presume spoilers are okay in a thread of this type. The closure is having Jody, Mike, and Reg truly reunited for the first time since 1979. Alive, on the road and defiant. That was worth it.

For me, this was the first film since the original that actually had substance, dealing with issues that - I don't want to go into details - are prevalent in my personal life currently: death, dementia, loss of dignity and identity, denial, refusal to concede loss of loved ones. 2, 3, and 4 are wonderful fantasies but they don't resonate the way I and V do for me.

[–] brucelee-38476 8 years ago

agree this film went the deeper route the other 3 went the horror fun route