MovieChat Forums > Phantasm: Ravager (2016) Discussion > I waited 18 years for THIS?!?

I waited 18 years for THIS?!?

posted 8 years ago by watcher101
16 replies | jump to latest

Talk about a disappointment. I freaking LOVE the Phantasm movies. After the cliffhanger ending of the 4th movie, I was left craving more. I heard talk and rumors of a 5th movie for years, did research on it, even found the original script for the 5th movie (it changed a lot, but still had lots of similarities) back when it was called Phantasm's End. The this movie was confirmed, and I waited for years as it was constantly pushed back. Finally, FINALLY, I got to see it and... WTF?!? This is the conclusion to the series? It wasn't even a conclusion!
Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a bad movie. It was ok, but for a Phantasm movie, especially the end of the series, it was gravely disappointing. Personally, I think it would have been better to have been left at the cliffhanger ending of the 4th movie.

[–] Joxiua_Nietzsche 8 years ago

You didn't wait 18 years tho. You wanted this for 18 years and thus your expectations got the best of you. This is a last hurrah, originally a secret gift for die hard fans. If you don't like it, think of it like Halloween 3, and ignore it. (I love Halloween 3 btw) but a lot of people don't.

You've waited 2 years like the rest of us.

[–] The_Keeper_of_Angela_Baker 8 years ago

Halloween III is not a good example for what you're trying to tell him. Halloween III does not take place within the continuity of the formal series. Michael Myers is a fictional character here. Meanwhile, Phantasm Ravager follows on from the prior four movies.

[–] Joxiua_Nietzsche 8 years ago

Scream 3 then. Also originally intended as a finale, but they brought the series back after a decade hiatus for a reboot/sequel now official final hurrah of original creators, cast. Sound familiar?

[–] disinter 8 years ago

I believe in Scream they left it open (as do most horror movies these days, a trend I do not care for) because they wanted the leeway to make another sequel should they feel inclined to do so for whatever reason. They never truly "closed the door" on the series. Ravenger on the other hand really is the end of the series. There won't be another.

What's so wrong in wanting a definitive ending? Why isn't it reasonable to have expectations of a finale (not another sequel) to actually close the series and then be disappointed because it didn't?

[–] Joxiua_Nietzsche 8 years ago

To me, Oblivion left things open for a sequel. As a kid, I didn't think of it as all being a dream. I wanted to see what happens next for Reggie after he passes through the space gate. If that isn't a cliffhanger than I don't know what is.

Scream 3 on the other hand had no cliffhanger. So, it's harder to say it's always been left open, especially considering how reluctant Neve was to get involved. Only when everyone came back did she finally agree.

What's so wrong in wanting a definitive ending? Why isn't it reasonable to have expectations of a finale (not another sequel) to actually close the series and then be disappointed because it didn't?

Quite simply that is not PHANTASM. They can't explain everything. Is the first film a dream or not? How is Alchemy dead on the table, but alive and well with Reggie and Mike in Phantasm 2? Was the creature really coming out of Liz's back when Reggie used the flamethrower or was that an illusion? What happened to Tim? Why can Jody turn into a human and be a ball? Why isn't the Lady In Lavender in Part 2 or 3 or 4 if she's his alter-ego? Why does Mike look different in Part 2? lol. Why do Mike's eyes turn silver? How come Mike can control things with his mind? Was the entire series a dream or part of Mike's imagination? Why is the important of the gold sphere? Why does the Tall Man want Mike? The list goes on and on. How in the world can they explain all these things in 90 minutes? You want some half-assed cop out like LOST? Everyone is dead?

HELL NO! We are left with another head scratching installment of the series, like it's always been.

www.youtube.com/user/joshdnitsche

[–] berserkbansheee 8 years ago

Joxiua
THAT is by far the most compelling argument I've ever heard!! Congratulations, I am TOTALLY on board with it!!

[–] watcher101 8 years ago

I'm not saying it was bad, I liked it, it just didn't come close to meeting my expectations.

[–] Joxiua_Nietzsche 8 years ago

When did you hear this movie was coming out?

Do you think you would have had a different reaction had you just stumbled upon it on Netflix? Imagine that... You have no idea a new Phantasm exists and there it is. You see Reggie and Mike on the cover. You make sure Angus is in the credits. You start the film... Now, is your first reaction going to be *beep* this looks bad!' or do you think you'll be washed over with excitement that just seeing the characters in a new film is surreal and euphoric?

A lot of us heard about this film two years ago and I can understand some of their frustrations, but if it was not only announced two years ago, but released the same day, I think people would have been more kind to this film.

Of course you had high expectations. This is Phantasm. This franchise deserves to be treated right and I think it was. If we consider everything that went into this production, we can see they gave it their all.

[–] richard-865 8 years ago

I just finished watching Phantasm: Ravager twice back to back. Maybe I just can't help myself, but I had a great time with this film, probably even more so upon the second viewing. The sequence near the beginning with Reggie's 'Cuda being chased by the two spheres just put this huge grin on my face (BTW it's interesting how his car morphed from the convertible he had in parts 3 and 4, back into the hardtop like was used in the first two films. Another example of the Phantasm series' endearing non-continuity ...).

I found the story engaging, with the shift between dimensions and timelines a bit less jarring upon the second viewing. As others have stated, so much of it is left open to each individual's personal interpretation. The lack of closure did not bother me in the least. That's exactly what I've come to expect from a Phantasm film. The acting was fine, and I thought the effects were more than adequate, and did not detract from the movie at all.

I smiled, I laughed, I cheered, and I even wept (one scene in particular, my heart was practically breaking - anyone who has seen the movie certainly knows what scene I am speaking of)). I'm not quite sure any of the preceding movies managed to elicit that wide a range of emotions from me. Is it the best Phantasm film ever? Of course not. The first one which I saw in the theater back in 1979 holds that distinction, and will always have a special place in my heart. But I found Phantasm: Ravager to be a worthy entry in what is certainly my all-time favorite series of horror movies, as well as a fitting send off for our three heroes, and a memorable final screen appearance for the great Angus Scrimm.

A big thank you to all involved. As some others have said, I too felt it was a love letter to Phans everywhere. Obviously there are many who are not feeling the love, and that's okay. But I certainly did. I have always taken this series of films very, very personally, and I am just so thrilled and delighted that Phantasm: Ravager finally happened ...

[–] The_Keeper_of_Angela_Baker 8 years ago

"Quite simply that is not PHANTASM."

"That's Phantasm" is a sorry excuse to hide behind for poor writing and planning. I understand Coscarelli thinks he can arm wave things with "in 'Phantasm' nothing is ever as it seems', but he's just abusing the situation.

Don't try to define "Phantasm" because it is something different to each person, even the people who made them.

"Is the first film a dream or not?"

Best not to think about it.

"How is Alchemy dead on the table, but alive and well with Reggie and Mike in Phantasm 2?"

She was apparently really dead, but the version interacting with Mike and Reggie was *ick* the Tall Man. When the Tall Man reappears at the end of the movie, note that the side of his head has a wound, exactly where Alchemy yanked out a piece of her hair.

"Was the creature really coming out of Liz's back when Reggie used the flamethrower or was that an illusion?"

That wasn't Liz. That was a double the Tall Man created to dick with Mike and Reggie. Reggie annihilates that thing with fire... yet Liz is still alive and well in Perigord, so that couldn't have been Liz they encountered.

"What happened to Tim?"

Eaten by dwarves. They deigned not to film that in "OblIVion" because it was deemed unnecessarily dark.

"Why can Jody turn into a human and be a ball?"

He's allowed this power by the Tall Man, whom he was apparently working for, if "OblIVion" is to be believed.

"Why isn't the Lady In Lavender in Part 2 or 3 or 4 if she's his alter-ego?"

Coscarelli didn't think of it.

"Why does Mike look different in Part 2? lol."

Oh STFU. Why does Rocky Balboa's kid look different in every movie? Why is Sofia Coppola playing Connie Corleone's son in "The Godfather" and Michael Corleone's daughter in "The Godfather Part III"? Come on...

"Why do Mike's eyes turn silver?"

Side effect of his newfound Tall Man powers.

"How come Mike can control things with his mind?"

Because the Tall Man can do that and Mike is turning into a Tall Man in "OblIVion". "Ravager" does nothing with this, though.

"Was the entire series a dream or part of Mike's imagination?"

If that was the meaning, Coscarelli can eat a dick. That "St. Elsewhere"-type ending was unacceptable in the 1980s. Just as unacceptable now.

"Why is the important of the gold sphere?"

To show you they are more powerful than silver spheres.

"Why does the Tall Man want Mike?"

In "OblIVion", he apparently wants Mike to be his protege to replace him so the Tall Man can go conquer other worlds. When it becomes apparent Mike is using the Tall Man's powers against him, the Tall Man takes the ball out of Mike's head and goes home.

"How in the world can they explain all these things in 90 minutes?"

Coscarelli could at least try. The simple fact of the matter is... he doesn't want to. Talk to him. He just kind of evades answering if you ask him.

"We are left with another head scratching installment of the series, like it's always been."

That is not exactly true. "Phantasm" was originally a three-hour movie with a standard beginning, middle, and an end. The distributors decreed they were not going to release a three-hour horror movie and made Coscarelli cut the movie to a more acceptable length. This also forced Coscarelli to shoot a new ending for the movie, and this is why Angus' hair is short in the final shot-- he thought he was done with the movie and had got his hair cut. The incoherent nature of "Phantasm" is a result of cutting the film down from 3 hrs to 88 minutes. It was not that way by design. And in the sequels, he did it to ape the final result of "Phantasm." But this in no way was how "it's always been."

[–] Joxiua_Nietzsche 8 years ago

If the film was all about answering questions it would be split into three 30 minute monologues and be boring as *beep*. Do the haters of this film actually think they can deter people from seeing it? Does whining about something usual help? It kinda just puts a target on their back to be laughed at. The fans aren't hurting and it's quite humorous that the film is aggravating people so much that they have to come here and bash it. The fans are still going to enjoy it. All the haters can do is cry.

[–] disinter 8 years ago

If the film was all about answering questions it would be split into three 30 minute monologues and be boring as *beep*.

Well it was pretty boring in spots.

Does whining about something usual help?

Well you've been whining about this movie and it's haters for quite sometime now.

It kinda just puts a target on their back to be laughed at.

I feel the same way about fans who support things no matter how bad just because they are fans.

The fans aren't hurting and it's quite humorous that the film is aggravating people so much that they have to come here and bash it.

You might want to think about that. If it aggravates so many people to come here and express such negative opinions, it could be a sign of the movie not being all that good.

The fans are still going to enjoy it. All the haters can do is cry.

Again you assume fans will (and are required too apparently) love this movie. The majority of "haters" of this movie are fans of it otherwise they'd never have watched it. I'd say the majority of people who watched it when it first came out were hardcore fans who were sitting on the edge of their seats, waiting for it for so long. As far as people who watched it without being fans before it, I feel so bad that this is their first entry into the series. They probably won't go search for the others since they might think this is indicative of how the other films are. The thought of that breaks my heart.

I loved the phantasm series and I'm glad a new one came out and I waited for it over a year (strange behavior for a non fan/hater huh?) but the movie just wasn't that good to justify defending it so adamantly.

I gave this movie a 6/10 (yet another shocking detail from a hater who surely would give it a "1") because I did enjoy it in parts and it is Phantasm after all.

[–] Joxiua_Nietzsche 8 years ago

Well it was pretty boring in spots.

Says you. Who are you again? Where were you when this movie was announced two years ago? I don't remember you posting on any of the boards. This film is for the fans. You also gave Rob Zombie's rip off of The Running Man and The Purge a 7, so your opinion is questionable. You're giving an original story a 6, and a blatant rip off a higher score. Yea. No. Story is clearly not important to you.

Well you've been whining about this movie and it's haters for quite sometime now.

I've contested the negative reviews because a lot of them don't have merit. I'm not going to start bashing Britney Spears because I am not the target audience. I think that is a prime reason this film is getting the negative reviews because most of the horror news outlets have considered this a great film. It's average movie goers who don't get it or hate it.

I feel the same way about fans who support things no matter how bad just because they are fans.

Who said it's bad? You? I think horror fans are more likely to trust Arrow in The Head, Aint It Cool News, Ihorror, Dread Central, and Bloody-Disgusting. Nice try, though.

You might want to think about that. If it aggravates so many people to come here and express such negative opinions, it could be a sign of the movie not being all that good.

I have thought about that, actually. I thought it was telling that several accounts on this board are only days old. Someone really wants to get their point across. If the film did compel someone to create an account and discuss the film, whether negative or positive, that is a great thing because art is supposed to make us react.

Again you assume fans will (and are required too apparently) love this movie.

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I never said people were required to like this movie, but based on all the reviews I've seen, the majority of people enjoy the film.

As far as people who watched it without being fans before it, I feel so bad that this is their first entry into the series.

Why would anyone start watching part 5 without seeing the previous films? That doesn't even make sense... Don't feel bad for anyone. My sister and roommate never saw them and they both enjoyed Ravager. You're just a spoiled movie-goer who is used to big hollywood productions and can't appreciate the blood, sweat, and tears that went into this no-budget film.

I loved the phantasm series and I'm glad a new one came out and I waited for it over a year (strange behavior for a non fan/hater huh?) but the movie just wasn't that good to justify defending it so adamantly.

It is though. We have all the original characters, a lot of phan service, imo great dialogue, especially during the Dementia Reg scenes. This has an emotional impact. It also has some poor CGI, a story that is pretty irrelevant except for the last 30 minutes, BUT.. there are far too many great things about it to nit pick on the film quality or cgi. If it's judged by it's merits, than the bad clearly outweighs the good.

If hardcore fans hate it, fine, that sucks to hear, but when non-fans come in and bash this film I find it absolutely annoying. Like I said before, I'm not the target audience for Highschool Musical so I'm not going to bash it. It's not for me. I don't want non-fans opinions to overshadow the target audiences opinions.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] drforeman 8 years ago

I'd very much like to know more about this... Can you elaborate on the original vision for the first film? Or perhaps point me to where I could learn more?

I see that you've spoken to Don about providing the Ultimate Answers to all of this... Does he say anything more than evasion? I mean, is he simply distinterested or is there more to it? That's a question I often wonder about. He clearly loves the series, so why did things play out this way?

Thanks!

[–] asgard-5 8 years ago

I liked the beginning. I wish it was like that for the whole movie, just stuff on the road and in desert. And Reggie trying to get it on with the girl, that was funny. But when Tall Man appeared it was "just keep sayig something epic" time. And of course that cgi nonsense... it's not a real movie, it's just a bunch of random Phantasm-themed stuff spliced together.