MovieChat Forums > And Then There Were None (2015) Discussion > Flaws in the plan? What if some of the t...

Flaws in the plan? What if some of the ten didn't go to the island?

posted 9 years ago by Maddyclassicfilms
16 replies | jump to latest

As much as I love this story the plan only works if everyone the killer has chosen accepts the invitation and comes to the island.

1- What if some of those invited refused the invitation in the first place? For example the doctor could have been booked up with patients, Vera and the Rogers could have already got employment with someone else before U.N. Owen asked for them and so on.

2- Did the killer have stand by victims ready in case not all of the ten selected could make it?

3- What if someone who had accepted the invitation weeks before got ill or was in an accident on the way and didn't turn up?

I don't know about anyone else here but I would be very reluctant to accept an invitation from someone I didn't know. Even if the ten received letters saying a friend of theirs asked if they could join the party, wouldn't they think it's odd that their friend hadn't mentioned this to them?

It's been a long time since I read the book and I can't remember if it's ever addressed what would have happened if some of them couldn't come to the island in the first place.

I know I'm probably looking way too deeply into this and you're not supposed to think of things like this, but I can't help it.

Go to bed Frank or this is going to get ugly .

[–] A_Llama_Drama 9 years ago

I'm really sorry but I'm about to talk about the book...

I guess the problem with television is they can't rely on exposition all the time and don't want to have heavy dialogue that explains things. In the book however, it can be demonstrated with one line.

For example, Emily is there because of a friend she had met once on holiday. She explains that it was someone she hadn't seen in a while and was excited to join an old acquaintance and meet new people at a new house.

The Rodgers hadn't worked in a long time and were desperate.

The killer chose victims after hunting them and he chose carefully. They had to be vulnerable and easily manipulated. There's a good moment in the book where Lombard curses the guy who got him to join the party. He knew that the headhunter knew more about his circumstances than he'd care to admit and he was essentially forced into going.

I guess you also have to remember it's set between the two World wars. Telephones, electricity and fast transport are still really new. The book even explains that the house was a modern one with electricity. Part of the reason the plot works is because of the time and era it occurred.

My teenage angst has a body count

[–] overactive-bladder 9 years ago

exactly.
just wanted to say that, like all "locked room mysteries", the plan has to work in favor of the criminal. it's about the solution of it all when everything goes according to plan. there is no room for situations that are accidental because that's not the objective of this particular genre; the reader has to find out how the killer got away with a locked room murder and that's really it tbh.

[–] fudanchu-725-268123 9 years ago

I think a good way to think of stories like this is that they are examples of successful plans. Unsuccessful plans don't get written up, or if they do they are written in a different way. Suppose there are 100 judges making plans to invite 10 people to remote places. Ninety nine of these plans fail. People don't turn up, the judge is unveiled immediately, the murders don't come off. No book is written. But then one judge succeeds. The book is written. In general books are descriptions of remarkable events, which succeed or fail in interesting ways. Locked room mysteries are examples of those unlikely crimes that succeed against the odds, when in the background there will be many other similar unlikely crimes that fail.

[–] CharlesTheBold 9 years ago

All melodramas depend on some contrivance. Take OTHELLO. Iago's scheme would have fallen apart if anybody had compared notes and realized what was going on. One character (Emelia) actually figures out that somebody has slandered Desdemona, but doesn't think to confront Othello with her suspicions until too late.

[–] filmfancy 8 years ago

The killer chose victims after hunting them and he/she chose carefully.

How would the killer know what these people had done in their private lives? With Vera there was an inquest so I can understand the killer 'hunting' her, but what about the others?

I haven't read the book only watched this miniseries.

And all the pieces matter (The Wire)

[–] CharlesTheBold 8 years ago

How would the killer know what these people had done in their private lives?
================================

This was explained in the book. He would go around telling people that he was a retired judge with a personal project of researching possible miscarriages of justice, particularly "guilty" people escaping punishment. People with an axe to grind were willing to tell stories, and the judge's connections allowed him to check details to see if the accusations were plausible. Examples:

-- He learned about Armstrong from an outraged nurse who had tried to report his surgery-while-drunk and got nowhere.

-- He learned about Vera from her ex-fiance, who had turned alcoholic and blurted out his suspicions of her while drunk.

[–] filmfancy 8 years ago

Thanks for your explanation. I really enjoyed the mini-series but those questions puzzled me. I'm sure the book was much better.

[–] Jimmy-128 8 years ago

Here are the others, if you're curious:

Marston's crime is a matter of public record, and as a judge, Wargrave would have access to the details.

He learns about Mr. and Mrs. Rogers from the doctor who was attending Miss Brady.

Another elderly woman (possibly from Miss Brent's village) gives him the story of Miss Brent and Beatrice Taylor.

Another soldier of fortune tells him about Lombard.

Blore is the only one that I don't know how *this version* of Wargrave finds out about. In the book, Blore's crime is significantly different--he perjures himself on the witness stand (before a different judge, not Wargrave) and sends an innocent man to die in prison. Wargrave hears about it when two of his colleagues are discussing the case.

[–] nmadura 9 years ago

I know I'm probably looking way too deeply into this and you're not supposed to think of things like this, but I can't help it

No, if you analyze the story too closely, the story starts to fall apart. It's dependent upon people taking a particular path of behavior at specific times, sometimes even when the choice is irrational or illogical. There are several instances of questionable choices such as not sticking together especially the final 3 of Blore, Lombard and Claythorne who seemed a little less prone to hysteria. No one thought to go back and check the previous victims (Lombard never really lost his wits, had started to suspect the judge and was convinced that the killer wasn't one of the last 3 or 4. It really wouldn't have been out of his character to recheck but he doesn't.) Had Vera trusted Lombard (or at least realized that one survivor would need someone to corroborate the story, which she did at last with the judge) and they both stayed on the beach together until rescued they most likely would have survived, I don't think the Judge would have been able to kill Lombard at that point unexpectedly. There are more of if only they hads but that doesn't take away the brilliant plotting of the original story or the adaptation.

[–] sokeyt 9 years ago

The same applies to all mysteries. If me or thee tried to come up with a scheme or scam, of whatever description, be sure it would fall apart. Something - many things - would go wrong. People wouldn't do what they're supposed to do, or would do it an hour too late. Etc.

Forget it Jake. It's Chinatown.

[–] cjlon 9 years ago

I guess that there would have been fewer actual murders ... and when the news broke, those holding invitations who didn't go would break out in a cold sweat ... :D

[–] Jibbler66 9 years ago

well in some versions Phillip wasn't even Phillip he took the identity

[–] CharlesTheBold 9 years ago

It would mess up the nursery rhyme and that phonograph record if some were missing, but he could still kill everybody that showed up, which was the main point.

[–] SuCue 8 years ago

I don't know why some of them didn't build a raft and make a run for the mainland, once they realized nobody was coming for them. At least in the 1965 version, the butler tries to escape by scaling down the mountain. They could have chopped up some of the furniture for materials. I get that the weather was treacherous, but the possibility of drowning at sea would have been better than sitting around waiting to be picked off.

[–] Helena727 8 years ago

Interesting comment! Coupla thoughts:

----- Some who have gotten away with murder probably think (unconsciously) that they are somehow going to be able to get out of any tight spot.
----- For some, there must have been an element of denial, born of shock -- hard enough to acclimate to a new group of people in an isolated setting when *no* insidious stuff is happening; imagine how it must have felt when the record played the 1st night only to be followed quickly by two deaths. The utter horrible weirdness of it must have pushed some of them into a kind of paralysis. (I know people who have let a bad situation [health, finances] become catastrophic because they were so freaked out about the bad news that they fell into denial and did nothing.)
----- I think that some were (unconsciously) relieved by the idea of being killed (punished), because they knew they'd done wrong; Vera and Blore clearly know they've done wrong, tho they're reluctant to admit it to themselves, and MacArthur is able to consciously acknowledge the relief.
----- Some, like Lombard, are so resourceful and strong that they have absolute belief in their ability to best a foe -- so why face possible death at sea?

"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people."

[–] kwestmo (4385) 6 years ago

Well. any number of things could have gone awry with his plan. He's an old sick man. He might not have had the strength tp over power the general , for one. It's a movie