Why the heck is Disney pimping this as the first action princess that 'don't need no man' ???? Almost every recent Disney Princess is a feminist action hero that don't need no man. Mulan, Brave, Frozen, now Moana all the articles are calling her this
Not a selling point imo. It's another same princess mold point. How about selling this on the STORY and culture. eh?
What are you even talking about? None of the movies you mentioned have feminist agendas and I doubt this one will either. Also , I'm sure the story will be more than fine.
"If life is getting you down and needs uplifting, then please come dance with me!"
And all of the movies I mentioned do as well. What are YOU talking about? They discuss it extensively even when promoting it. Pay attention! They even changed the original Mulan story to make it a feminist one. Read the link I posted in the OP. Also. I like all those movies I've listed, it's just them selling Moana as the first action Princess who gets no man is laughable!
Some of those sites I wouldn't touch as they're biased propaganda sites anyways. The ones that aren't are just giving the usual PR fluff that comes with any big new movie. It is true at least that Moana has a unique physique compared to other Disney princesses. That doesn't mean Moana is promoting a feminist agenda. Even Mulan was still very much a traditional, mostly feminine female in her movie, not some raging "I don't need no man" feminist. No Disney princess has been that way...at all. The closest might have been Merida, but her character is so undefined and her film is such a mess that it's hard to make that kind of distinction one way or the other.
"If life is getting you down and needs uplifting, then please come dance with me!"
Everything you said is false. DISNEY is pimping Moana that way. It's a lie that she's the first. I listed a bunch that were the same mold They used that marketing gimmick with all of them. It's time to wake up!
I'm not going to disagree or agree about how the movie is being promoted because I haven't seen it promoted. I simply want to point out that "feminist" is not a dirty word, despite what some might have you think. Feminist in it's purest meaning is simply about bringing equality to women on par with men. It's really a positive for all.
That assumes men had the same privileges as women throughout history (they didn't) so I prefer the term egalitarianism. But don't worry I'm not trying to start a feminism discussion here lol
I'm just a bit perplexed with the marketing so far. If you hear the panels it's them using that angle of a fighting princess being new and such. Moana not having a love interest is not something new or bold. It's standard fare now. All the princesses are kick butt with no love interest. I do like good female characters. But if she's just an Islander version of Brave... well .... okaay
I understand your point and it does seem to be the trend in advertising toys and movies to children now, probably because the advertisers are trying to say, "Hey, we're finally giving the girls strong role models". I'm not sure that I would even agree with them that fighting or doing everything without a love interest is necessarily a "good" role model (Not that it's bad, either - it just is another option), however, it is nice to break the mold from the endless princess that needs rescuing type.
Mulan abandons the kingdom at the end and goes home... I guess the general kinda visits her. But it's not really a love story. There is zero romance and he thinks she's a guy the whole movie.
Frozen prince was the villain. No prince romance. Only lesbian romance between the sisters.
So you're mad that a fairy tale princess genre caters to girls? You just have to accept that part of being a girl includes society seeing you as the weaker sex for centuries. Today's girl movies will fight that.
Moana is the first of it's genre to have no love story whatsoever. Now you're right Mulan really only had an implied date setup at the end but this is the 1st one that gives you no shipping at all.
You just have to accept that part of being a girl includes society seeing you as the weaker sex for centuries.
Carrot:
Weaker in what reguard?
How could you have missed this? We're talking centuries where women were not only seen as weaker, but inferior in just about every way. They've been blocked from participating in government. They been denied the right to hold property or make financial decisions for themselves or their families. They've been bartered as if they were property. They've been denied access to an education. They've been denied the right to vote. Of course, it depends on the society, but that pretty much describes most of them. Much of what you see today and take for granted had been hard fought for and there is still much discrimination and bias.
reply share
How could you have missed this? We're talking centuries where women were not only seen as weaker, but inferior
That is false. Men and Women had different roles, but each were valued equally. Back then 1/3rd of women would die during childbirth. Giving birth was a PAINFUL and BLOODY experience and women were known as "warriors" for going through it. Don't belittle the women of the past, claiming they didn't play an equal role. If you are talking about muscle mass. Then yes, females are physically weaker in that regard. But no less important. Like a Yin Yang
They've been blocked from participating in government. They been denied the right to hold property or make financial decisions for themselves or their families.
Not completely true. However voting was always linked with the military draft and public service. You could just as easily make the argument that women had it easier because they wouldn't be shipped off to war either. I prefer to see it as each gender had their own roles in society, just like all animals do. Neither men nor women were sexist for having traditionalist roles. Only with modern technology can people switch up these roles. reply share
Look up laws of inheritance. You will find some societies where it was equal, but not most.
Look up voting laws in the US - originally, only property owners could vote. It was a long time coming before blacks could vote and an even longer time for women.
Look up property laws in Europe prior to the 20th century. Look them up in the US - women had no rights to themselves, but were seen as children in early America.
Look at how women HAD to marry, outside of a handful of queens in Europe.
Look at rape laws. Until recently (the past century), it was not considered rape if a woman was married. The church even preached about submission to husbands.
Look at infidelity laws. The law was always harsher if the woman committed adultery.
Look at what happens in many societies around the globe even today if a woman gets raped? She is seen as devalued.
Look at education of females in Europe in the dark ages, middle ages, and Renaissance. Education of females was pretty much denied except for a handful of noble women.
Look at reasons for committing people to insane asylums in America up until around 1950. More women than men were in asylums, often for reasons such as arguing or depression or their husbands wanted the out of the way.
Look at what influential men, leaders, have said about women throughout history:
Woman was merely man’s helpmate, a function which pertains to her alone. She is not the image of God but as far as man is concerned, he is by himself the image of God.
—Saint Augustine
The female is a female by virtue of a certain lack of qualities; we should regard the female nature as afflicted with a natural defectiveness
and
A proper wife should be as obedient as a slave.The male is by nature superior, and the female inferior; and the one rules, and the other is ruled.
- Aristotle
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence.
- Aquinas
The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes.
Martin Luther
Men attain a higher eminence, in whatever he takes up, than can women - whether requiring deep thought, reason or imagination, or merely the use of the senses and hands; If two lists were made of the most eminent men and women in poetry, painting, sculpture, music history, science, and philosophy, with half a dozen names under each subject, the two lists would not bear comparison. We may also infer from the law of the deviation from averages, that the average mental power in man must be above that of women."
Look up laws of inheritance. You will find some societies where it was equal, but not most.
Depends on what your definition of equal is. You seem to be doing a good job of avoiding that discussion. Most were equal in the sense of balance.
Look up voting laws in the US - originally, only property owners could vote. It was a long time coming before blacks could vote and an even longer time for women.
Yes, but during those times we also had mandatory draft and such things. Voting was always tied with military conscription, which is why the vast majority of women opposed getting the right to vote.
Look up property laws in Europe prior to the 20th century. Look them up in the US - women had no rights to themselves
Not having property rights does not mean not having any rights. Men had certain rights and women had other rights over men. One could also make the argument that they had a free ride without having those responsibilities of public service, war, etc.
Look at how women HAD to marry, outside of a handful of queens in Europe.
And men had to work to take care of them. Your point?
Look at rape laws. Until recently (the past century), it was not considered rape if a woman was married. The church even preached about submission to husbands.
And? Men also had rules about taking care of their wives and providing for their families. As I've said many times it was a two sided coin.
Look at infidelity laws. The law was always harsher if the woman committed adultery.
Men are given longer and far harsher prison sentences. Women have far more child rights then men. Men have no say in abortions.
Look at what happens in many societies around the globe even today if a woman gets raped? She is seen as devalued.
Look at what happens in society if a man doesn't work or is a bum. He is devalued. But if he were a woman he could just marry and then not have to work.
Look at education of females in Europe in the dark ages, middle ages, and Renaissance. Education of females was pretty much denied except for a handful of noble women.
Education was denied for most men as well. Most could not read. But whose fault is that exactly? If women were the same as men, why did they not create their own institutions just the same? Is it because they were fulfilling a different human role or because they were inferior?
Look at reasons for committing people to insane asylums in America up until around 1950. More women than men were in asylums, often for reasons such as arguing or depression or their husbands wanted the out of the way.
And more men are in prison than women. More men commit suicide. More men do lowly sanitation jobs. More men die in war. etc etc
Look at what influential men, leaders, have said about women throughout history:
Woman was merely man’s helpmate, a function which pertains to her alone. She is not the image of God but as far as man is concerned, he is by himself the image of God.
—Saint Augustine
The female is a female by virtue of a certain lack of qualities; we should regard the female nature as afflicted with a natural defectiveness
and
A proper wife should be as obedient as a slave.The male is by nature superior, and the female inferior; and the one rules, and the other is ruled.
- Aristotle
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence.
- Aquinas
The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes.
Martin Luther
Men attain a higher eminence, in whatever he takes up, than can women - whether requiring deep thought, reason or imagination, or merely the use of the senses and hands; If two lists were made of the most eminent men and women in poetry, painting, sculpture, music history, science, and philosophy, with half a dozen names under each subject, the two lists would not bear comparison. We may also infer from the law of the deviation from averages, that the average mental power in man must be above that of women."
Darwin
So? I can selectively quote nasty things that radical feminists have said about men as well. What point are you trying to make here?
Umm....no no no no. I could go over it with you point by point, but you've tipped your hand a few too many times there.
Free ride???? Really???? And equating treated of men and their value to what happens to women who are raped? Seriously, buddy????? You really are clueless here. It's clear to me that you don't even see your own bias. I wish you all the best and I especially wish that you come out of this weird, sad world view that you have.
I hear that term bandied about as the rallying cry for many who take issue with equal rights. And I've learned that I don't want to talk to anyone who uses "SJW" because I can already tell they are climbing up on their soapbox.
Would you please keep in mind that you are posting now on the boards for a CHILDREN'S movie? And guess who comes here? People interested in discussing the movie, not a political agenda.
The first few posts were on topic. I apologize for the conversation with Carrot, it quickly veered off-topic. Let's discuss the movie, shall we?