And threw their queen in prison
Then America moved in and 90% of the natives died due to filthy colonist diseases.
Now they are an impoverished underclass and a minority in their own country. This happened less than 2 generations ago.
Give back the Kingdom of Hawaii
Give it back to whom?
I hope you realize that Hawaiians today are much, much better off as a state in the United States than they would be as an independent nation.
That is incorrect. They are far worse off. Poverty stricken. Obesity stricken. Mutilated culture. No control of their borders.
You'd make the same argument if Hitler won, because you lack imagination.
The Hawaiian Royal Family still exists.
This happened only 100 years ago. 2 generations.
That is incorrect. They are far worse off
Poverty stricken
Obesity stricken
Mutilated culture.
No control of their borders.
You'd make the same argument if Hitler won, because you lack imagination
Everything you said is wrong. I'm talking specifically about the NATIVE Hawaiians there.
Not the entire population of Hawaii, which is mostly non native Hawaiian you dumbass
Their religion is gone. Their culture is gone and replaced with cheap tourism culture. Their kingdom is gone. Their sovereignty is gone.
You're basically excusing occupation and creating a false reality where you claim it would be much worse if they were free. Umm zero evidence beyond your wishful dreaming. gtfo
Free Taiwan. Free Hawaii.
Given back to the Native Hawaiians and the Kingdom of Hawaii of course.
Well, aside from moving the goalposts there, you did fine.
Regardless, you have no clue what you're talking about. I won't respond anymore, because it's clearly a waste of time, but I want you to know that everyone who reads your thread is laughing at you and your trolling. Hope it's worth it.
I didn't move any goal posts. I was always talking about HAWAIIAN Hawaiians.
You are the ignoramous. Everything I stated is fact.
I’m actually going to vouch for the statement about Hawaiians being poverty stricken and having a high obesity rate. As the OP said, s/he is talking about actual Hawaiians, not people who live in Hawaii. It’s a common misconception that they are the same thing, but there is a difference. Considering the fact that Asians are almost half of the population here, it makes sense that Hawaii has low obesity rate overall because Asians overall tend to be less likely to become obese. We are not talking about Asians, though. We are talking about Hawaiians.
I work with homeless and “at risk” clients here in Hawaii, and it’s true that my Native Hawaiian clients often live in the poorest areas of the island when compared to other groups. When you’re poor you eat the saltiest and fattiest foods because they are cheaper, so they do have issues with obesity. It’s a shame, but with colonization, the Native people tend to be the worse off. Just look at American Indians. Their poverty, suicide, domestic violence, drug abuse, and sexual assault rates are extremely high when compared to other groups. One of the most renowned Polynesian moves ever, “Once Were Warriors” depicts this in the Maori community. And any anthropologists or social scientist will tell you these are common issues among colonized people.
Hawaii’s poverty rate is reportedly low, but we also have the worst homeless population in the country. Worse than NYC! So, when I saw how highly we were ranked, I was shocked. If homelessness isn’t poverty, I don’t know what is. Also, the cost of living is so high that on Oahu a single adult can live in Section 8 home (aka low-income housing) if they make under $52,000. I repeat, you can be making $51k a year and still be eligible for rental assistance here. What does that say about our income situation down here?
I don't know much about native Hawaiians but I wouldn't doubt it. Isn't it pretty much the same pattern wherever colonization took place over an indigenous people? And then of course hundreds of years later when the native people are a minute minority people try to validate or dismiss the atrocities that happened years ago by saying how wonderful everything is now. of course it's great if you had nothing to lose and everything to take.. but the past remains.
🐬 ma ink
"And for the record, since you've been wrong on pretty much everything else, the Hawaiian queen Lili'uokalani was deposed in 1893, over 100 years ago. And most historians equate a generation to 25 years"
Technically, 20. But you were close (as are those historians), so thus we agree that the poster you quoted was an unedutated troll..
"And that's SHOWBIZ--kid."-Roxie Hart.
PROFILE PIC:Courtney Thorne-Smith.
MAGIC=Sarah Silverman.
Pretty much this, mate. The way the US took Hawaii is unforgivable, the rate of advancement Hawaii achieved is perfectly fine. Hawaii is a first world state with modern technology and medicine, and they still have their culture in one piece. Sort of.
-Join us-
http://www.triond.com/rw/86365
Thailand has modern technology AND independence.
Hawaii would too.
#ImperialistExcuses
Siam avoided Colonization because neither British or French wanted to settle there.
The Kings, Mongkut, Chulalongkorn and Vajiravudh all changed the kingdom to be more European cultured than traditional Siam. They bought and traded for European technology and ideals.
Siam escaped annexing because no one wanted it. Hawaii couldn't avoid it because they were tricked and bought out by a businessman, who enforced his own government and tried to build his own country. That fell apart and the US annexed it.
-Join us-
http://www.triond.com/rw/86365
Yep, imperialism is bad stuff! So is conquering places. There's no way anyone is giving anything back, though. The people that live there now have claimed it as home, just as those of many nations' decent have claimed the mainland and those in Japan have claimed it from the ancient civilization they conquered. It shouldn't happen, but it does.
shareThey can take it back. The people there will just become citizens of the Kingdom of Hawaii
America already gave the Phillipines back
UK gave India back
It's not going to happen. If it happened there, then why not the whole of the United States? Why not Japan? I bet if you went into the history of most nations, there is a tale of conqueror and native people pushed aside. I doubt very much that you'd be happy giving back the land you call home.
shareHawaii happened very very recently. (Mexicans are retaking California lol)
but I'm not telling anyone to move
I'm talking about political autonomy only 👍
Hawaii happened very very recently. (Mexicans are retaking California lol)Ok. The people living there now would have to want autonomy, first. Do they? share
but I'm not telling anyone to move
I'm talking about political autonomy only 👍
There are tons of kingdom of Hawaii Nationalist groups.
China is in contact with them and said they will fully support them if America supports Taiwan.
There are a lot of new residents in Hawaii, filipinos, Japanese, Americans, hispanics, some were born on the islands others just live there which is fine. They make a great living and many love the lifestyle and beaches its what attracts millions of people to the island every year. But it is the treatment of the locals or Native Hawaiians as 2nd class citizens that is the issue. Native Hawaiians are the islanders that can claim their heritage back to the original Polynesian that first discovered and settled in Hawaii over a thousand years ago. These were a proud and strong people that ruled over Hawaii for centuries. Then the wealthy Americans came and undermined and then overthrew their Queen, illegally taking the islands and claiming it as their own. Its funny how they preach how Hawaii is rich and successful, but like every colonised territory its the invaders enjoying the luxuries. The Natives are pushed to outskirts, unless some new resident or visitor wants some fake Lu'au or fire dance to entertain them. Sadly Hawaii's beautiful paradise is an illusion that can be bought by tourist and local business people. The People that the culture belongs too and have the true Aloha spirit, are left in the shadows to collect the scraps.
shareThere are a lot of new residents in Hawaii, filipinos, Japanese, Americans, hispanics, some were born on the islands others just live there which is fine. They make a great living and many love the lifestyle and beaches its what attracts millions of people to the island every year. But it is the treatment of the locals or Native Hawaiians as 2nd class citizens that is the issue. Native Hawaiians are the islanders that can claim their heritage back to the original Polynesian that first discovered and settled in Hawaii over a thousand years ago. These were a proud and strong people that ruled over Hawaii for centuries. Then the wealthy Americans came and undermined and then overthrew their Queen, illegally taking the islands and claiming it as their own. Its funny how they preach how Hawaii is rich and successful, but like every colonised territory its the invaders enjoying the luxuries. The Natives are pushed to outskirts, unless some new resident or visitor wants some fake Lu'au or fire dance to entertain them. Sadly Hawaii's beautiful paradise is an illusion that can be bought by tourist and local business people. The People that the culture belongs too and have the true Aloha spirit, are left in the shadows to collect the scraps.Exactly. share
You do realize Hawaii long term is better off and the people there have a future? They are even economically better off then some other islands. But I admit I do not agree with the things the European colonist did.
shareLol, ask the Native Hawaiians if they are better off. The arrogance of someone to say that the island is better, because the whites, filipinos and other Haoles are living the good life. You completely miss the point of my earlier comment.
My island of Samoa, was ruled over by the Germans, British, and New Zealand, our people were treated like 2nd class citizens in our own island. The Samoan culture and traditions were frowned upon by the Europeans and restricted. In June 1962 Samoa finally achieved its independence. Today our people flourish, the economy is doing well, and our culture and traditions remain strong. I believe this could be the same for the Hawaiians, but there is no way the greedy Americans are gonna let go of their money pit. Like you said its better of for YOU in the long term and will get even better after this Moana movie. Not for the Native Hawaiians tho, buts that's just a necessary evil that some will lose out i.e always the Natives.
My island of Samoa, was ruled over by the Germans, British, and New Zealand, our people were treated like 2nd class citizens in our own island. The Samoan culture and traditions were frowned upon by the Europeans and restricted. In June 1962 Samoa finally achieved its independence. Today our people flourish, the economy is doing well, and our culture and traditions remain strong. I believe this could be the same for the Hawaiians, but there is no way the greedy Americans are gonna let go of their money pit. Like you said its better of for YOU in the long term and will get even better after this Moana movie. Not for the Native Hawaiians tho, buts that's just a necessary evil that some will lose out i.e always the Natives.
CIA = Globalists. What do you expect them to say?
We already saw how they rigged polls this election.
Unless you can show me different results from a reputable site, then those facts stand. Crying "rigged" at whatever disagrees with what you wanted to happen, whether it's an election or an economy's statistics, just shows your immaturity and lack of ability to back up what you say with any kind of facts. Really? We saw how they rigged polls this election? Please, show me how the rigged the polls.
shareThey are not facts. You're just throwing out random numbers.
And Hillary was projected with a 99% chance of victory. Polls = Propaganda. Nothing more.
They are not facts. You're just throwing out random numbers.
And Hillary was projected with a 99% chance of victory. Polls = Propaganda. Nothing more.
Hmmmm wth is the CIA global factbook, am i supposed to be impressed. Your talking about an agency whos job is too spy on other countries, gather intel, and then depending on the threat to America (mostly unreal) they organise assasinations, destabilise governments, bring on civil wars etc. The CIA is the big brother of the FBI and they are just as adept at feeding misinformation whether thru media outlets or their websites as gathering relevant info for themselves. Im surprised u used the CIA site as a reference, you're obviously easily impressed. Better to use a financial website that specialises in international economies.
BTW i didnt say Samoa had a great economy but we do well to survive in such a competitive world market. I mean look at the EU they're basically in self destruct mode. Not too mention america hving the greatest dept on the planet, and they still havent fully recovered frm their recession. Do u know that most of ur debt is owed to China, not good owing money to the 2nd largest economy on the planet.
Hmmmm wth is the CIA global factbook, am i supposed to be impressed. Your talking about an agency whos job is too spy on other countries, gather intel, and then depending on the threat to America (mostly unreal) they organise assasinations, destabilise governments, bring on civil wars etc. The CIA is the big brother of the FBI and they are just as adept at feeding misinformation whether thru media outlets or their websites as gathering relevant info for themselves. Im surprised u used the CIA site as a reference, you're obviously easily impressed. Better to use a financial website that specialises in international economies.
BTW i didnt say Samoa had a great economy but we do well to survive in such a competitive world market. I mean look at the EU they're basically in self destruct mode. Not too mention america hving the greatest dept on the planet, and they still havent fully recovered frm their recession. Do u know that most of ur debt is owed to China, not good owing money to the 2nd largest economy on the planet.
Can u listen to yourself, u like to quote all these stats about my island and then make light of the stats concerning yours.
The population of samoa is around 200,000 and our economy is tiny. Samoa has one of the smallest economies on the planet so the figures u quote are not surprising. You say we're about 200 or something in economies, we're prob the 230 smallest economy on the planet too lol. Our lifestyle is very laid bck, we dont require alot of money, we dont need flash cars an and all that bs.
America is a great country, but it is drowning in debt. Last i checked it was 19 trillion and 1.7 trillion of that is owed to China. U seem to make light of it, but the threat of another full recession is at your doorstep. The fact is the corrupt banks, corporates and politicians that lead u to this point are still in power. They were not punished for their crimes, and are still bleeding your country dry. You do realise that america housing bubble implosion caused a global recession right. Many counties still havent recovered fully.
You now have a president that represents the very corporate world that is ruining your country. He has no political experience, has already insulted women, war veterans and hard working immigrants. I mean he hasn't even been sworn into office yet and hes insulted and caused friction with China. Sadly you are in denial of where your economy and country stands at the moment. I pray that america can survive a trump and republican controlled government. America and the rest of the free world depends on it.
Disagree about your last paragraph.
Trump is fighting against the Globalists. All of the corrupt corporations backed Hillary and fought against Trump.
Please ignore our lying mainstream media Fake News.
He only fights back against people who have insulted him first. He's already cancelled WW3, smoothing over relations with Russia, Phillipines, and saved 30,000 jobs from moving over seas. As for the China thing, he just accepted a congrats call from Taiwan. Good. He shouldn't follow the wishes of the corrupt Communist Chinese Party.
Free Taiwan. Free Hawaii.
Again, debt is going to be higher for all big economies. If you look at debt as a number, all the big economies are going to look bad. You have to look at percentages. Just like I could make your work force look pathetic if I compared how many people are working in your country to how many people are working in America. That's a terrible comparison, because your country is much less populated. So you look at percentage.
We're drowning in debt just like other large economies are drowning in debt. The only countries that have a surplus are very small countries. Granted, it doesn't help that our current president has spent 8 years throwing money we don't have at programs we don't need. But even before that and before the recession, we still had large debt. That's just how the economy works.
No, we don't have that president yet. I can't wait for when we do, though. He's never insulted hard working LEGAL immigrants. Illegal immigrants are killing our economy, getting paid a pay check (taking money out of the economy) and then sending it to their families back in Mexico (not putting the money back in the economy). That murders an economy because money is disappearing. I'm not in denial. We're standing in decent position despite how awful the government has limited spending in recent years, and we're FINALLY looking at a future where the right people are in power in every branch of the government to start building the economy back to where it needs to be.
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o realize Hawaii long term is better off and the people there have a future?Factually incorrect. Also a guess
Japan is an island and they're doing great. Island does not = bad unless colonized.Japan was colonized by the people we now recognize as "Japanese". The people who were living there first were pushed to the margins, as the other poster described of native Hawaiians. Not saying it's right, just saying it happens and all over the place. There are still living decedents of the original peoples who occupied the Japanese islands. share
The Japanese largely absorbed them. And that was thousands of years ago.
Not 100 like Hawaii. It's funny how you can't point to the Hawaiian people doing this so you go pick a random irrelevant place to justify your bigotry
It's funny how you can't point to the Hawaiian people doing this so you go pick a random irrelevant place to justify your bigotryWhat bigotry? Where did I display that? And what do you mean I "can't point to Hawaiian people doing this..." doing what? share
You brought up Japan.
Hawaiians never took over a place. Hawaii was empty.
Keep up the conversation, bird
Yes, I brought up Japan in response to what you said about islands. Nowhere did I ever say that imperialism and conquering are right. But since you're going to attempt to bully me by calling me names and putting words in my mouth, the conversation IS over.
And Japan is irrelevant because Native Hawaiians are not Japanese.
What bullying? Lmao. Nice job running away because you lose the argument. Calling you a bird is calling you a name? Um your avatar is a bird.
#Dumb
Japan is not irrelevant. You said Japan is doing great even though they are an island, but that counters your original argument because the people doing great in Japan are the ones who colonized it. The people who are doing great in Hawaii are again the people that colonized it. So you saying Japan is doing great as an island is no different than the poster who said Hawaii is doing great.
shareYou made the racist argument that Islanders can't do great on there own, which is why I brought up Japan.
Keep up with the conversation. Also the Ainu didn't populate all of the islands. Many were first inhabited by the Japanese.
Also how about the U.K.? They are an island.
You made the racist argument that Islanders can't do great on there own, which is why I brought up Japan.
Keep up with the conversation. Also the Ainu didn't populate all of the islands. Many were first inhabited by the Japanese.
Also how about the U.K.? They are an island.
You two need to get IMDb picture icons
I started mixing you two up in this thread haha
I actually didn't make any "racist" argument, nor did I say anything about islanders not being able to do great on their own. That was OhNooos. I just responded in the middle of the discussion. Though, I did decide to look up Japanese colonization and read up on it to see if OhNooos's reference to it being colonized was correct, and it was not. Japan is apparently one of the few islands to never be colonized, so I'll concede that point to you.I never said anything about the islanders not being able to do great on their own.
The Japanese largely absorbed them. And that was thousands of years ago.
Not 100 like Hawaii. It's funny how you can't point to the Hawaiian people doing this so you go pick a random irrelevant place to justify your bigotry
Never said it was right. But what does Japan have to do with Hawaii?
Are you retarded?
No, I am not retarded. You implied it was fine because it was thousands of years ago, while Hawaii was more recent. Whether recently or a long time ago, nothing changes. What does Japan have to do with Hawaii? They are similar in situations. Japan was an island once owned by the indigenous people, but then colonized, and the people that colonized it flourished and turned it into what it is today.. Hawaii is the exact same, just years later.
shareTime does matter. If a nation stole something 1,000 years ago or if they stole something 1 day ago it's a big difference, jackass.
No the situations are not remotely similar. Ainu didn't even inhabit all of the islands. Japan did not culturally genocide and overthrow their governments either. They just settled there also and the societies merged. Similar to the Malays and the and the earlier tribes in the Phillipines.