MovieChat Forums > Moana (2016) Discussion > Moana is basically mirroring TS2's run

Moana is basically mirroring TS2's run


This has been talked about often here so this will likely be of interest to some. Here's a chart that shows the first fifty days in release of Frozen, TS2, Tangled, vs Moana currently. What's truly interesting here is just how closely Moana is mirroring TS2! Also of note is TS2 held up VERY WELL during the Christmas holidays though, so it'll be interesting to see if it keeps on this same path. If so Moana will close at around 245 million domestically.

http://i67.tinypic.com/2vt5lwn.jpg

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That's pretty underwhelming considering Toy Story 2 was 17 years ago.

Plus, TS2 didn't have a Sing to compete with during Christmas like Moana will.

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Sing is projected per Pro Box Office to make 165 million domestic, just 25 million more than Toy Story 2's Christmas competition, Stuart Little.

Tangled had nearly the same multiplier as Toy Story 2 against both Voyage of the Dawn Treader and Yogi Bear. Neither was exceptionally big, but combined they made just over 200 million domestic, which is more than Sing is expected to make.

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Sing is projected per Pro Box Office to make 165 million domestic


If you think that's all Sing is going to make...I've got a time-share to sell 'ya. Seriously, Pro Box Office has already upped the ante for Sing by $60 million. Just last month they were forecasting $105 million. It goes to show you the momentum of buzz surrounding it.

BTW...Yogi Bear and Dawn Treader ain't Illumination. Take a look at their track record.

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Toy Story 3 made 100 million after Despicable Me came out. Finding Dory made 80 million more after Secret Life of Pets came out. So did Inside Out after Minions came out. Monsters University made 70 million after Despicable Me 2 came out.

If anything, there's precedent for a Disney movie to hold well against Illumination.

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All of those films had much bigger grosses already put in the bank than Moana has. Plus, the percentage of what the total gross was made after going head-to-head with Illumination is very telling. Moana stands at $144 million domestic...this is not good news.

Plus, all of the films you mentioned were summer releases where every weekday plays like a Saturday. We have one final 10 day window for big holiday business and Sing is bound to own it.

I take no glee in this...I'm sad about it...just being realistic.

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Okay, I'll play along. It's not gonna crash and burn, but let's have some fun with numbers. It makes it to your proposed 210 million domestic. Let's also use the largest domestic percentage of worldwide that any Walt Disney Animation movie had earned this decade. Winnie the Pooh is an outlier that's easily disqualifiable for obvious reasons. So let's use the 40% that Wreck It Ralph pulled. It sti gets to 525 million on a 150 million budget, before merchandising and music sales. For perspective, Wreck It Ralph made 471 million worldwide on a 165 million budget (or, less on a bigger budget), and is getting a sequel, indicating they not only made money on it, but were happy with the amount of money they made. Even if they aren't happy with a 525 million worldwide total for Moana, it will make them money and it functions as a standalone movie amazing, just like every other Disney musical.

Using the usual domestic-overseas split for recent Disney Animation Studios movies, it gets to 636 million worldwide using that 210 million domestic as a baseline.

And it's going to go past 210 million domestic. It's going to get buzz for Best Animated Picture at the Oscars, which will help its longevity. Every day over school's holiday break plays like a weekend day, which will help Sing and Moana coincide.

230 million is a minimum, indicating worldwide as a minimum of 575 million worldwide and a more likely 696 million.

Running through Deadline's international report, the only legitimately disappointing performance is the UK. There's no way to spin it, it's not doing well there. Its China performance could be better, but keep in mind that Frozen only made 42 million there. It has also surpassed Inside Out. France is equal to Frozen, Russia is the 4th best Disney Animation there, presumably below Frozen, Zootopia, and Big Hero 6, and ahead of Wreck It Ralph. However, they do specifically note that it is a strong opening, which they didn't have to do. Mexico is only 14% below Frozen. Spain is 39% ahead of Big Hero 6. 21% above Frozen in Belgium, 15% behind Frozen in Netherlands, 17% behind Frozen in Switzerland. For notables, there's still Italy, Germany, Japan, Korea, Brazil, and Italy. For most notable markets mentioned, it's only the first weekend.

Moana is doing fine. Certainly it could be bigger, but they are getting a profit here.

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Even 690 million is barely a profit (combined production and marketing budget is 300 million). 575 million would make it a flop.

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Do you have any actual proof that the budget is 300 million, or are you just pulling stuff out of your butt to try to call ever Disney movie a flop? Because if 600 million is the line to not be a flop, then every Disney movie since the Lion King has flopped besides Big Hero 6, Frozen, and Zootopia.

Geez, Disney's on such a down slide, no one buys crap from them, they suck lolz they should just file for bankruptcy and stop trying lolz

/s

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I dont want disney to flop but i have to call facts here.

Marketing budget was 150 million along with a production budget that matches itm

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I still see absolutely nowhere that even remotely suggests that they spent 300 million total on this movie.

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Generally, most studios release the combined budget total of production and marketing which is 50/50. Dosney only releases production budgets though. 150 million plus 150 million is 300 million.

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Stop talking out of your butt, troll. Either provide proof for what you are saying, or just give up.

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@troyplaypond

Speaking of pro.box office.com's projection abilities, they also pegged Moana as grossing 300 million domestic total. LOL. Is there anyone that thinks that's gonna happen?

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Considering that they're actually only going to end up 25-50 million off on Moana because there's no way it ends at 210 million, that's not bad.

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There's no way it's getting to 250-75 milliin at this rate. You actually think this has got 100-125 million left in the tank? With Sing opening in a week?

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If I scream louder that Moana is having the same legs as Toy Story 2 and Tangled, which puts it between 245 and 265 million any louder, will I be heard?

If I scream louder that Dawn Treader and Yogi Bear made as much against Toy Story 2 as Sing will against Moana, will I be heard?

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that my past history, math, and facts are getting in the way of your insistence on pessimism.

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Its not getting there deluded fanboy.

I love disney but just being realistic.

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Based on what? I have provided the legitimate comps to use, and there's a full international breakdown in another thread to also prove it's hitting 600 million worldwide. Calling me deluded doesn't disprove anything at all.

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It's not impossible to get there. It’s actually more likely than ending with $210M.

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Okay, I'll play along. It's not gonna crash and burn, but let's have some fun with numbers. It makes it to your proposed 210 million domestic. Let's also use the largest domestic percentage of worldwide that any Walt Disney Animation movie had earned this decade. Winnie the Pooh is an outlier that's easily disqualifiable for obvious reasons. So let's use the 40% that Wreck It Ralph pulled. It sti gets to 525 million on a 150 million budget, before merchandising and music sales. For perspective, Wreck It Ralph made 471 million worldwide on a 165 million budget (or, less on a bigger budget), and is getting a sequel, indicating they not only made money on it, but were happy with the amount of money they made. Even if they aren't happy with a 525 million worldwide total for Moana, it will make them money and it functions as a standalone movie amazing, just like every other Disney musical.

Using the usual domestic-overseas split for recent Disney Animation Studios movies, it gets to 636 million worldwide using that 210 million domestic as a baseline.

And it's going to go past 210 million domestic. It's going to get buzz for Best Animated Picture at the Oscars, which will help its longevity. Every day over school's holiday break plays like a weekend day, which will help Sing and Moana coincide.

230 million is a minimum, indicating worldwide as a minimum of 575 million worldwide and a more likely 696 million.

Running through Deadline's international report, the only legitimately disappointing performance is the UK. There's no way to spin it, it's not doing well there. Its China performance could be better, but keep in mind that Frozen only made 42 million there. It has also surpassed Inside Out. France is equal to Frozen, Russia is the 4th best Disney Animation there, presumably below Frozen, Zootopia, and Big Hero 6, and ahead of Wreck It Ralph. However, they do specifically note that it is a strong opening, which they didn't have to do. Mexico is only 14% below Frozen. Spain is 39% ahead of Big Hero 6. 21% above Frozen in Belgium, 15% behind Frozen in Netherlands, 17% behind Frozen in Switzerland. For notables, there's still Italy, Germany, Japan, Korea, Brazil, and Italy. For most notable markets mentioned, it's only the first weekend.

Moana is doing fine. Certainly it could be bigger, but they are getting a profit here.


Just quoting this because it seemed to get ignored, and is by far the most technical analysis and the most handy. Thanks for the info!

Now, onto my reply.

There's no way it's getting to 250-75 milliin at this rate. You actually think this has got 100-125 million left in the tank? With Sing opening in a week?


Yes. Just yes. Why is 250 mil impossible? Please explain. Frozen made 235.9 million domestic after this point. So why is 100 million impossible for Moana? You really see Sing as that much of a threat? Because I don't. It looks pathetic and I've heard no buzz whatsoever. The way you're predicting it to play out, you're basically pegging it as the biggest flop ever from WDAS, which is ridiculous to expect from a movie sitting at 96% (critics) and 92% (audiences) on RT, with an average score of 7.9/10 (critics) and 4.4/5 (audiences). It also is sitting at 8.1 on Metacritic, the second highest for a WDAS movie, behind only The Lion King. So stop treating this like a frontloaded summer release. Because it's not one. It was released around the Thanksgiving holiday. These movies always depend on legs. Not massive openings. It's only behind FROZEN by 19.8 million at this point domestically. So expecting it to continue at even half of what Frozen did gives it 262.5 mil domestically. So, seriously, just chill. Moana is doing great.

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Zaphenzo...I do agree that Sing "looks pathetic". There is a lot of (inexplicable) buzz around it though.

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I'm actually very interested to see how well it holds up with Sing in play. Far as I remember TS2 had basically no real competition. Moana will have to contend with Sing and R1 at the same time. So what I'm seeing 250 is basically the limit for Moana but it could end up much lower if the other films take away from it.

I don't think anyone would of guessed that Moana would make 100 million less than Zootopia domestically if you asked them last year!

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Moana will have to contend with Sing and R1 at the same time. So what I'm seeing 250 is basically the limit for Moana but it could end up much lower if the other films take away from it.


I don't see it getting close to $250 million domestic. I'm pegging it at around $210-15 tops.

I don't think anyone would of guessed that Moana would make 100 million less than Zootopia domestically if you asked them last year!


Ain't that the truth! I still can't believe what I'm seeing.

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250 million is a VERY optimistic gross! I expect it end up much lower. Between 210-230 is my personal current guess.

Internationally is much harder to estimate right now but it isn't looking to good honestly! Unless it is just huge in Japan, Korea, Germany or a combination of the above it could only make around 150 million internationally or less! And less than 400 million world wide. That's pretty unprecedented for a Disney film with a budget of at least 150 million and a marketing budget I'd guess that has to be at least 50 mill (if someone has information on this please share). So let's say 200 million. If it makes only 400 world wide that means the film won't even cover it's costs! I'd guess the floor would have to be a min 500 million + to gain a profit for the average Disney film today!

Basically they could of done better just releasing it straight to DVD.

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Marketing for a film like this is usually at least 100 million WW. They did a LOT of marketing(and continue to!) just here in the U.S.

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That's what I was wondering. I know over here in France I've seen a decent amount. More than Zootopia but less than Dory. So yeah if that's the case it's going to have to make 500 WW at min to even break even!

Oddly though I was looking at Wrek it Ralph that also had a low WW and domestic. My only guess of why this film is getting a sequel is because Disney is basically giving Rich a "gift" for Zootopia! That's his baby so that's my only guess of why Disney green lighted it, much like
Zootopia is Byron's.

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@OpinionsByLennon

Ironically, France is one of zhe only bright spots for Moana at the moment so they seemed to have done something right where you are!

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That's very likely due to French holidays. Kids here get a whole lot of them and they don't even have school in Wed. That's the reason why movies always do well on that day in France. With that said it's doing okay, but nothing huge by any means. It'll be interesting to see how well it holds up with R1 and Sing as right now there isn't a whole lot that interest the French movie goer other than Fantastic Beasts.

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Unfortunately, I'm sure Sing will destroy it there, too.

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If it follows Pets and Minions I expect it will play very well! The French LOVE Reality TV and shows like The Voice are HUGE here! So I've got no reason to doubt a stupid film with animals Singing in a reality tv show like film won't do well!

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That's great. I think it might be able to get past $250 million actually.
Overseas it should match Big Hero 6, especially if it's really big in Japan.

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Hold-the-door...are there any signs over there in the UK that Moana is gaining traction or is it still flopping hard?

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Nope.

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Depressing.

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