MovieChat Forums > Moana (2016) Discussion > Disney's female leads

Disney's female leads


As a man, I am really enjoying the current trend in Disney and Pixar films having their lead character as a female. I am just wondering why that is:

I am thinking it's because female characters can much more richly developed in terms of their character: they can be strong and ambitious, but they can also be caring and sympathetic, they can stubborn and arrogant but they are also able to accept mistakes and recognise their own flaws.

I think female characters are much better at this than male ones, and the audience (or at this this audience member) finds them much more appealing and relatable, you want them to do well. It wasn't always like this of course: Disney's female characters were usually kind and caring, but didn't have that desire for adventure and that self-confidence and strength of character, as those were considered to be characteristics more befitting male characters. Now of course it's different, female characters get the best of both worlds and that really benefits the story.

Male characters suffer because writers don't seem to give them that same freedom or richness of character. They tend to be about growing up to "be a man" in the traditional sense: Your typical male lead is one who must gain confidence, skill and strength to overcome some kind of adversary, usually another male. There is less room for introspection or emotional expression...unless it's anger, that's fair game apparently. But you still don't see too many male characters crying at the end of act 2: the 'all is lost' moment.

So yes, that's why I like Disney's modern female leads: Tiana, Rapunzel, Merida, Anna, Elsa, Joy, Sadness, Judy Hopps, Dory and now Moana. I am curious to wonder how young girls of today will grow up with these characters as role models.

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Well, along those lines, it is a shame that there aren't more developed male characters. It makes sense that all characters in these short movies would be painted with broad brushstrokes, but it is always refreshing when the creators step away from over-used tropes and stereotypes. I liked Hiccup in How to Train Your Dragon for this reason.

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I really need to see that film.

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Well, most Disney films (not all) always had female protagonists from Snow White right down to Moana... it's not just the recent ones.

It's just that they used to rely on supporting characters, but now, they can get by on their own...

But Wreck-It Ralph and Hiro (Big Hero 6) are still good at holding their movies...

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Those were great! And both had more promise in terms of character development, especially Wreck-it-Ralph.

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Yes Ralph has a good character arc, and I love how his relationships with Felix and Vanellope develop during the film.

As for Hiro, I didn't find him as interesting or appealing.

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Well I'd say in the case of Zootopia Nick was originally the lead and it was changed latter on (like a year before) to Judy. But even with this change Nick was still given plenty of character he was just as important to the story and as three demential as Judy was. With that said I loved both of them! So just because a Disney film has female lead the male character(s) can be just as important as the female character.

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That makes a lot of sense. Nick did seem to share almost as much development and back story as Judy.

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Yes they are both well developed and have an interesting relationship arc. In this case I think I just prefer Judy because her joyful optimism is quite endearing.

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That was basically the reason for the change. Judy was optimic and Nick wasn't. They felt with Nick's dark past and world view was to depressing and would make viewers hate the city. So the decision was made to change it over to Judy.

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I love Woody, Buzz, Mike, Sully, Wall-e, Carl, Russell, Ralph, etc.

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Let's hear it for the boys! And the girls! And the end of focusing on gender!

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I'm going to disagree with the OPer, I think the male characters are just as appealing as the female ones. My daughter was three years old when Toy Story came out on video, and she had never sat through a movie before. I was amazed when she not only sat through the entire movie, but watched it again right after. She was crazy about Buzz and Woody. That Christmas she got a bunch of Toy Story toys. We surprised her with a Buzz Lightyear action figure by putting him in the car with the restraining harness on.

BTW, she also loved Simba from The Lion King.

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Ok fair enough, no worries. In the end it's all about personal preference.

It might change with age as well. When I was younger I would certainly find the male characters more interesting and relatable, now I'm older I find myself caring more for the female ones.

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That could be personal preference. I always found it weird when kids (or anyone) only identified with characters of their own gender, but there are plenty that do! To me, anyone was my role model so long as I liked what they did and what they fought for.

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That could be personal preference. I always found it weird when kids (or anyone) only identified with characters of their own gender, but there are plenty that do! To me, anyone was my role model so long as I liked what they did and what they fought for.


It's much harder to get boys to watch shows about female characters than it is to get girls to watch shows about male characters. Guys who are fans of My Little Pony, called, "Bronies." get made fun of. Shame.

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Yes, there is that. It boils down to the biased idea that anything feminine is less than anything male. It's total B.S.

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Yes, there is that. It boils down to the biased idea that anything feminine is less than anything male. It's total B.S.


The term, "chick flick" is used in a derogatory way. Notice the same isn't done with entertainment that appeals mostly to men.

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kok rock (for 70s-80s rock music) is used here in Australia. I think in America they call it "sad-bastard" music. That's the only thing I can think of that makes fun of men's entertainment.
Of course, men who love that sort of music (and nothing else) take it as a term of endearment.


"Debating a troll is like trying to play chess with a pigeon..." — Modified Quote

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I've never heard the term, "sad-bastard" music, and I live here in America. 70's-80's, that's when Rock music was at its best.

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Must be a regional colloquialism...

"Debating a troll is like trying to play chess with a pigeon..." — Modified Quote

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[deleted]

Because "chick flicks" twit, are made to pander to the gynocentrism and phoniness of females and most males can see how shallow they really are. And yes, male dominated films are normally just referred to as a "guy" or "boy" movies, so there is not much difference. Your phony issue, is that you don't like being referred to as a "chick", you idiot feminist chick. How much you degrade men and yourself in the process.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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t's much harder to get boys to watch shows about female characters than it is to get girls to watch shows about male characters. Guys who are fans of My Little Pony, called, "Bronies." get made fun of. Shame.
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You really want to see all males emasculated don't you, yet you claim that you are for equality for both genders. Yeah, just another narcissistic and phony feminist who wants her cake and eat it too. Yes, shame on you. 

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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Way to miss her point entirely.

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 Merry Christmas! 

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Yeah, whatever! I am dismantling her point, due to her phoniness and insincerity.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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The irony of this reply is hilarious.

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 Merry Christmas! 

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How is it ironic, I'm not the one that is a phony b!tch creature? I drew attention to her femme superior attitude and how transparent Ruby Ruthless really is.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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Cyberbullying, attempting to justify a rape, and so on.

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 Merry Christmas! 

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Whatever! You are just another simpleton creature and full of contradictions and dishonesty. Afraid to look at the bigger picture and broaden your horizons are you? The world is not going to fit neatly into your own deluded notion of how you "only" think things are, if you feel it will make things easier for you. Now get your head out of the sand.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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Well, these arguments:

-Why do you place so much importance on Polanski "allegedly" raping a LYING, trampish 13yr old, who had sex with many older men before and after Polanski and had a 19yr old boyfriend, when there were far more extraordinary events of greater importance surrounding Polanski's life?
-What do you feel about the 13yr old tramps gold-digger mother, who whored out her teenage daughter for a nude photo shoot, when she knew she was only 13?

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000082/thread/264536424?p=1

...sound similar to arguments made by Oskar Paul Dirlewanger when he got caught raping a 13-year-old girl.

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 Merry Christmas! 

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What is the point exactly?

Why do we need boys to be inspired by female characters when they are clearly not female?? The boys know who they are, how they're made and how to differentiate between male characters and female characters. Why is it so bad if boys want to only look up to male heroes?? And why do these women think they get to dictate who boys look up to? Who our heroes are?

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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What the *beep* are you ranting about? No one is saying it's bad for boys to only look up to male heroes. They're saying it's bad to see "feminine" as less than masculine. A boy should feel just as comfortable enjoying a movie with a female protagonist as a male one.

"And why do these women think they get to dictate who boys look up to? Who our heroes are? "

Why do you think you get to dictate that kind of heroes girls look up to? Because you're doing that right now by complaining about the lack of romance in this movies, despite all the romantic pairings that have occurred across the majority of Disney Princess movies.

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Got a new Disney femme sidekick have you, Little Pink Mary? And yes, feminine is less than masculine, because it doesn't operate from the same energy or state of being. Many males do like female protagonists in their movies, as long as they are portrayed with dignity about their own foibles and not whitewashed to be something they possibly can't be, by default of their female physicality.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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You're confusing "different" for "less".

Many males do like female protagonists in their movies, as long as they are portrayed with dignity about their own foibles and not whitewashed to be something they possibly can't be, by default of their female physicality.


What you mean is that YOU prefer any female character subseemrvient to her male counterpart.

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Many males do like female protagonists in their movies, as long as they are portrayed with dignity about their own foibles and not whitewashed to be something they possibly can't be, by default of their female physicality.


In other words, men in action movies can do the most unrealistic action scenes: fight atop moving trains, take out a whole bunch of thugs (Daredevil does that even though he's blind), and often defy the laws of physics. But when it comes to women in action movies, they must be written as realistic.

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No, I am not confusing "different" for "less", and while there are differences, I prefer the much stronger, "more" dominant and powerful presentation of the masculine. The female is intelligent and skilled, just not to the extent that they can't cope without the masculine presence in their lives and same goes with males. Male or Female, we are ALL subservient to the "greater" masculine presence\counterpart. That is just reality.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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So then you should approve of all the recent princess movies then because they all had a masculine counterpart with them.

In fact, without Maui's strength, they never could have revealed the spiral which means Moana wouod never have been able to use the empathy necessary to defeat the antagonist.

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Feminine in a survival situation is weak. Life is about survival of the fittest, no matter what environment we live in. BUT that doesn't mean feminine is less important. It just means that when danger comes, the masculine has to take the lead or else everyone will be in danger. And history has shown that women do not care about being warriors in real times of strife and danger. Why do you think it's so easy for tyrants to take over an entire civilization, taking all of the wives for their own?? If there were more women of Troy like Rey in Star Wars or Moana here, there wouldn't have been a problem. BUT that's the thing. We're talking about reality versus fantasy here.

Besides, to be a warrior, you actually have to care about protecting people other than yourself or your own sex. That's not a feminist strong suit. Women today still don't mind sacrificing their men to protect themselves and now, to protect the sisterhood.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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-Survival of the fittest is not about the strong preying on the weak. Survival of the fittest refers to those who have the most fit adaptations for its environment to pass on genes to the next generation. So really Luke, you're the least fit when it comes to our present environment.

-I don't know why you're bringing up feminism or being a warrior since we're talking about female heroes in movies. Your rant is just talking about how women don't go to war, ignoring the fact that it's been men keeping them out of combat and that we now have laws allowing them into combat roles (which is what women have fought for for decades).

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It would be kinda nice if men would stop initiating wars.

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Feminine in a survival situation is weak. Life is about survival of the fittest...
Life is about perpetuation of the species and growing a society, not just "surviving" the day. Without females, no survival of the species. In order for any society to flourish and grow, not merely survive, there must be social cooperation, not competition and war.

And women will never be men, so why insist that they be compared that way? Men won't ever be women, either. So why have this silly argument?

What really confuses me is how this ties into the movie?

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But Luke, they want boys to look up to them, they think they have earned it, just by default of their weaker gender and need allowances made for them. Where is the "equality" in this? Why can't they just let it stand as it is and not make excuses about how dis-empowered they really feel in the presence of many males.

Male characters just be who they are and other males don't have any expectations of how others feel about them. It's a sort of insecure desperation for females to prove that they can be just as "manly" as a man 😄 and then don't know how to act like a man or as a man would. I guess they just can't compete, yet refuse to acknowledge this.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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No. They think they're owed this entitlement because of all the "suffering" they've endured over the years... at the hands of us evil male oppressors. LOL. Seriously. These people need to see the end of Hacksaw Ridge if they want to see what real suffering looks like. Being forced to stay out of hell is not suffering, you stupid bitches!

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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There is nothing wrong with Cinderella, Snow White, Aurora, etc. They had the old fashioned virtues of kindness, courtesy, hard working, honesty. I wouldn't have minded having any of them as a daughter, a sister, a mother, or a friend. I have not seen The Frog Prince or Brave, and I probably wouldn't have seen Moana if I hadn't wanted to take my granddaughter to a movie. Tangled, Frozen, Zootopia, Inside Out, Finding Dory, we enjoyed a lot.

Boo Hoo! Let me wipe away the tears with my PLASTIC hand!--Lindsey McDonald (Angel)

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There is nothing wrong with Cinderella, Snow White, Aurora, etc. They had the old fashioned virtues of kindness, courtesy, hard working, honesty.


They were written as what was perceived at the time as the ideal woman, and therefore IMO lack dimension.

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Yeah because men are wrong to want a certain kind of woman, right? We don't get the right to choose what we want, even though we've sacrificed so much for so many ungrateful sows like yourself... right?

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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What have you as a man sacrificed?

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The issue with Snow White, Aurora, and Cinderella is not their personalitues. It's that their characters are a reflection of the time and quite frankly boring. Yes, they have good traits, but even Disney realized with The Little Meraid they needed to do more with female protagonists than have them rescued and falling in love.

I have no qualms with the OG Princesses in terms of personality becauses Disney has give us a rather diversified group. It has neared perfection with the current incarnation in terms of modernizing such a protagonist to the point of bucking the "princess" title. There is nothing wrong with romance (I love Tangled) but there's nothing wrong with movies without it.


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I love that with Ariel, she's more of a typical teenager. She forgets about her recital and often makes her father angry.

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Did I ever give you a link to the blog article "Disney Princesses Are My (Imperfect) Feminist Role Models"?

If not, I think you'd appreciated it. It's all about how the princesses have this negative connotation with the original three, but even they aren't all bad. It goes into talking about how the princesses have evolved and eventually given as a diverse set of characters that a young girl can choose which ones she'd like to look up to. It also mentions the negative influence of unrealistic body types and damsels in distress, but overall recognizes that there's some positive to having this group of characters.

http://boingboing.net/2014/10/24/disney-princesses-are-my-impe.html


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Thanks for the link, Apollo, I enjoyed reading that article.

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Cinderella was a victim. She didn't know anything other than torturous servitude. She was very realistic psychologically.

Snow White was sweet as can be, full of spirit. She embodied an incredible homebody personality. She took charge of the dwarfs, made them wash up for dinner. They didn't have much more to think about in those days. You just do what you have to do to survive.

They're not boring. They're simple.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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I don't know why you're trying to argue with me on this one considering I said I'm mostly OK with them, just not on their own but within a group of diverse protagonists.

FFS, I even agree with the point that Cinderella had nowhere to go and she still took risks talking back to Tremaine.

They're not boring. They're simple.


Sorry, but to paraphrase what you have said about male mary sues, they are boring, outdated characters.

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Merida
No.

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You are a major gamma white knight.

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Big Hero 6?

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