MovieChat Forums > Moana (2016) Discussion > Does racism affect the box office?

Does racism affect the box office?


Do y'all think racism (or prejudice) affects the box office? There, I asked it.

No it's not a troll post but a legitimate question. It seems like the box office numbers for Disney princess films like Pocahontas, Mulan, Atlantis, Princess and the Frog, and now Moana generally tend to trail the figures of films with Caucasian princesses like Beauty and the Beast, Tangled and Frozen. Little Mermaid and Aladdin are notable exceptions.

And I'm not just referring to outright racism, but a general underlying feeling that some may have the people of color are less appealing, therefore like likely to be interested in watching it.

Will this affect Disney's decision to green light any potential princess or color like an Indian, Hispanic or other ethnic princess?


reply

Ariel is white...how is she an exception?

reply

Little Mermaid is an exception in the fact that it's a Caucasian princess movie that didn't have an especially high box office number.
And Aladdin as an exception of a princess of color film that was very successful.

reply

None animation movie reached 68 millions $ in 1989, Fievel stopped before 60M$. LtM was a success on this release.

reply

Aladdin was not a "princess of color" film. Jasmine is not the main character like the other ladies. After all, the film is called Aladdin.

reply

I know what you mean but I'm not sure if racism is the right word for it...

People generally want to see themselves in those heroic lead roles. The USA which produces most films in the global market has a majority white population and will have a lot of leads who are white to appeal to those masses. If you look at Moana's takings globally it is doing well (comparative to population size and GDP) in countries like Peru, the Philippines, France and a few more. Both Peru and the Philippines have mixed race, coastal populations that rely on fishing and sea trade. France has a big migrant population and have always been fascinated by Polynesian and island cultures. So I do think there is a case of white people wanting to see white heroes, brown people wanting to see brown people, etc.

It's a shame though because Moana is a lovely movie, with solid, admirable characters, beautiful music and breath-taking CGI.

Also you can't isolate the fact that it is competing against Sing and as my friend said, "maybe kids are telling their parents they'd rather watch animals sing in a reality show"" than watch a sailing Polynesian princess (now my words). That would be sad for a completely different reason. Hopefully the word of mouth is so good that people will encourage families to watch Moana.

ON the plus side, with global ticket sales on the rise I think we will definitely see leads and characters with a variety of races. We are already starting to see it with Chinese actors in big American blockbusters pandering to Chinese audiences so hopefully we will see it with other races too!

reply

Peru and Philippines are no more "mixed race", then any other place

reply

I should have been specific. Both Peru and the Philippines are mixed with indigenous tribal societies that share a lot of customs and traditions as those pictured in Moana. In fact, some of their indigenous groups still maintain a lifestyle very similar to the ones in the film. Filipinos can even trace their bloodlines back to the same ones as Polynesians. I think this may be why Moana resonated more with these countries. Just a theory though.

reply

Very true.
It's a shame that Peru didn't get as faithful of a Disney movie as Moana
If you haven't seen the documentary called: The Sweat Box, I highly recommend it.
It shows what The Emperor's New Groove would have been, back when it was titled 'Kingdom of the Sun'

reply

Well maybe in the future Disney may allow the original ideas to be made and Peru will get a faithful movie?

reply

Thanks for the recommendation. Will have a look for it!

reply

Was Emperor's New Groove ever really supposed to be faithful to Peru? I very highly doubt it.

reply

Was Emperor's New Groove ever really supposed to be faithful to Peru?
Yes. When it was titled 'Kingdom of the Sun'
I very highly doubt it.
Then you're never done 3 seconds on research on its production.. They had the entire movie storyboarded and it was near completion till the Disney executives chickened out during the animatic screening. Basically the whole thing was animated, just not colored. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaHh-FgDeYE

Check out Yzma's deleted song "Snuff out the Light"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1pYGvplG5Q
The original story has her summoning an Inca god in the form of a giant lizard to cover sun/give her eternal youth in the third act.

Pacha and Cusco (named Manco in this version) are identical twins. They switch places
There is also a village (princess?) who Kusco falls in love with
The entire thing was very faithful to Quechua culture, also filled with Songs! In the released version there is only has a single song in the opening. Sad

reply

Very true, I had never done any research on its production. I've looked it up now. Quite interesting. Apparently, we're lucky it was made at all. But I'm happy with what we got.

reply

Yes. Bias against people of color in general is a very real thing and affects companies that make anything with a humanoid representation. White sells better overall - even to people of color. Most of the non-white girls I see sporting Disney gear display the face of a white princess - generally Elsa, but a nice amount of Ariel, Rapunzel, Belle, too. But Disney is not stupid. They are going to make just enough ethnic princesses so that they can't be called out on it, but they aren't banking on them to make tons of money like the do with movies that feature a white princess.

reply

I guess if you're a racist you may avoid this movie, so given that there are sadly racists out there they won't be spending their money on it.

I'd like to think (possibly naively) that the world isn't quite as rotten a place for that to make a noticeable impact on the box office numbers though.

reply

To be honest I am one of the few people that did not see Frozen in theaters. There no doubt is a factor of things. Some people decided to wait to see something when it hits dvd. I live in rural America and practically everyone in the theater I went to was white. Of course I wonder if some may had avoided it because they assumed it would have a certain political message? Some people may relate to a hero that is more like them so they see themselves as the hero. Also we can even ask if there are that many nonwhite people that are not Polynesian seeing this film? Race is more complicated then white or nonwhite. Also racism or even the desire to be with like minded people is more detailed then white or nonwhite.

reply

Or maybe people just did not like the look of the movie or the characters and didn't want to spend money on it

reply

Say it ain't so! Don't you know...white people's racism against non-whites. is the pervading evil of our time?

In fact, evil white racists have made the U.S. such a horrid place, no one can figure out why hordes of non-whites continue to pour into this country every day. Illegaly and legally. Millions overstay their visas, too.

reply

I did kind of reference that when I pointed to the fact there are people that chose to view movies only when they are on dvd. I kind of that way. I do not go to the theatres that often.

reply

No, not at all, not in any capacity. /topic

"If life is getting you down and needs uplifting, then please come dance with me!"

reply

Do you seriously believe that? Or are all the non-white actors, directors, screenwriters, etc. who talk about how much more difficult it is to get quality "ethnic" films to be made just lying?

reply

As another poster said, maybe I didn't get the word right with racism. I'm thinking more of a bias against people of color.

reply

Yes, I answered the question about bias. I'm just commenting on the person who said race and ethnicity don't impact anything in the entertainment industry.

reply

I'm just commenting on the person who said race and ethnicity don't impact anything in the entertainment industry.


Whether or not racism plays a big role in the entertainment industry is another question entirely. The original question asked if racism could be a cause of certain films underperforming or outright failing at the box office. My answer of no to that question still stands.

"If life is getting you down and needs uplifting, then please come dance with me!"

reply

This honestly did cross my mind. Especially considering the political situation right now.

I don't think it will affect any future decisions. Timing is the problem with this movie. It came out at the heat of election issues where race and gender was put in the center of people's minds.

But like any social issues, things go in waves. Low today might be high next year.

reply

Interesting points have been raised in this thread.

I am on the "no" side personally. A big chunk of audience for this kind of movie is kids, who pester their parents to go and see it. I suppose some might decide that this is not the kind of stuff their kids need to see, but as much of the marketing and press pr did not really make any sort of SJW sales pitch, beyond some cursory "wow this is sooo diverse" pap, I don't see any political agenda that could set parents against this film in view.

Unless they are more widely against Disney and their mostly liberal company policies, but it didn't affect Zootopia or their merch sales any... unlike, say, ESPN has recently been hit.

In the US this had a big opening. Must be the word of mouth didn't really take off. Beyond family audiences, I guess LMM fans are seeing it, and they are behind the music sales as well. In my opinion, while the songs are by no means poor, they are not the sort of crowd pleasing wide appeal songs that previous renaissance movies and Frozen had. On the other hand, Zootopia needed no songs to make a billion bucks.

And the foreign box office is very mixed bag. I would say blaming the US political climate is a non-starter. In France, the movie performed well, and they are in the midst of a hard right political pivot themselves. And arguing that a large migrant population helps doesn't explain why the movie bombed in UK, a traditionally good market for Disney.

If, as I think will happen, Zootopia wins the Oscar for best Animation and La La Land wind best song, some of the more SJW side of Moana fandom (just check tumblr Moana tag) will go ballistic and make wild claims that there was some racist consipiracy to "keep the brown girl down" etc. Hopefully media will not indulge them as they sometimes do, the movie doesn't need that kind of "defenders" tainting its legacy...

In any case, unfortunately Moana did not become an event like Frozen or Zootopia. And while it did well, it will not have the legacy like Little Mermaid or Tangled, of starting a new Disney era (even while not performing as well as other movies in box office). But I would seriously not classify the movie a failure. One thing Disney needs to take a more serious look into is why the performance overseas was so lackluster. Seriously, there's a few hundred million dollars missing from the final gross there as things stand now...

reply

Excellent post, Ginger Man!

reply

If, as I think will happen, Zootopia wins the Oscar for best Animation and La La Land wind best song, some of the more SJW side of Moana fandom (just check tumblr Moana tag) will go ballistic and make wild claims that there was some racist consipiracy to "keep the brown girl down" etc. Hopefully media will not indulge them as they sometimes do, the movie doesn't need that kind of "defenders" tainting its legacy...


For an example of the type of insanity in the SJW!Moana fandom, I just ran into one of the more ludicrous examples:

http://leather-gremlin.tumblr.com/post/155985558033/i-had-the-best-customers-the-other-day-a-mother

I had the best customers the other day. A mother and her little girl came in for a Moana toy. The little was as sweet and polite as could be. She used her manners well and was so happy about the toy. My coworker rung them and asked if she liked Moana or Frozen better and she said Moana.

The mother was telling us how much her daughter loved the movie and important representation is for brown people like them (their words. My coworker and I are both biracial but we don’t look it). It was a really sweet and touching moment then the little girl chimes in yelling “Yeah, we hate white people!”


I'm betting its an invented story by the way of "virtue signalling" to the rest of the asylum, but this is the type of human excrement I hoped would have stayed in Anime and Dreamworks fandoms, instead of infesting WDAS fandom spaces.

reply