I hope they have learned from this and start to become more proactive with their release schedule. They are arrogantly slotting their films in traditional spots on the calendar where Illumination and DreamWorks are chopping their prospective grosses in half.
shareMoana is holding well, and yet you are STILL continuing with this sh-t.
Adventure is out there!
Next week Sing will pass Moana in it's domestic gross.
That's freaking sad considering the comparative quality(and cost) of the two films.
Irrelevant. Moana would perform just as well with or without the slotting of Sing there. Movies being eaten alive don't post week-over-week increases by factors of over 100% like Moana did Monday and Wednesday.
shareHa ha. No.
shareIts not holding well at all.
sharehttp://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=disney1116.htm
If those aren't good holds, I don't know what is.
Disney is drowning in all that Rogue One box office and toy revenue, anyway. House of Mouse doesn't need any more money. Walt Disney Animation Studio is probably still living off all the money Frozen made alone.
I disagree. Do you really think Zootopia and Finding Dory's prospective grosses were chopped in half? Or did you anticipate that both of those films were going to gross over $2 billion worldwide.
Also I have a question for you QueenFanUSA. Have you actually seen Sing and The Secret Life of Pets? You continuously talk about how awful they are and how they are "poor quality" films. For years, I have seen you dissing Illumination and DreamWorks so I can't imagine why you would possibly go see these films in the theater.
*All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players.*🎭
To be totally fair, Secret Life of Pets was, at best, an ok Toy Story ripoff.
But the Despicable Me movies besides Minions are fun.
Ginger...I've seen SLoP, Minions, Despicable Me 1 and 2. I've. not not seen Sing yet but do tell...am I missing something? Because from what I've seen it looks absolutely horrible.
The only Illumination film I have seen that I thought was decent, at leasr, was the first Despicable Me.
Ginger...I've seen SLoP, Minions, Despicable Me 1 and 2. I've. not not seen Sing yet but do tell...am I missing something? Because from what I've seen it looks absolutely horrible.
I have seen it, Ginger. Much as I like MOANA, SING might actually give it a run for its money.
shareI have seen it, Ginger. Much as I like MOANA, SING might actually give it a run for its money.
Sing is a story you've seen before but it is well executed and is perfectly entertaining. It's biggest weakness is that most of the songs are just covers, not originals, but they do a good job with them. It's definitely a better movie about show business dreams than la la land.
shareDisney's being "arrogant" and you actually think Illumination and Dreamworks are a threat? Then why are all the Top 5 Grossing films of l2016 all Disney?
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
The title of the OP is a bit trollish I feel...
Illumination is no threat to Disney or Pixar.
Let us see how much longevity their product has beyond flash in the pan fads. People still watch Disney animations from the fifties, forties and thirties today with their kids. I wonder how long the modern pop song soundtracks, overpaid and unevenly talented celeb film stars slumming as voice actors, and jokes based on already old memes will work for Dreamworks and Illumination after a few years...
SING: $239.2 million, domestically.
MOANA: $233.8 million, domestically.
Nuff said.
MOANA: $484,710,870 Worldwide
SING: $404,453,702 Worldwide
Not even close.
Took the rest of the world to redress that imbalance. Doesn't make the original poster completely wrong, brudda.
shareYou must have a very Nationalist mindset to only use the U.S. domestic box office as a measuring stick. Last time I checked, a film's final world wide box office in-take was the definitive total.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
You must have a very Nationalist mindset to only use the U.S. domestic box office as a measuring stick. Last time I checked, a film's final world wide box office in-take was the definitive total.
You're an idiot.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
The US box office counts the most because Disney is a US company, so the largest share of the ticket prices comes from sales in the US.
I have no idea why you would have called the other poster an idiot. If you have something to say on the topic, do so. Don't be a jerk and attack him personally.
Yet you'll never find anyone who says "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" made 1 billion dollars. Ask any random person and they'll tell you it made the two billion, because that's the world wide gross. The other poster hasn't earned my respect, so I will treat him as I see fit.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
Let's just say that, when it comes to the metric system, Weird, I'll always be a...foot-fetishist. :P
"It's not familiarity that breeds contempt. It's over-frequency of visitation...and increasingly overdue departure!"
More like being incorrect.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
Yay for Illumination. They've made more domestic. But Disney's has made more money period, so....yeah. I don't think anyone cares where the money comes from, money is money. Granted, the WW is in no way decided yet, but acting like domestic is more important than WW is just stupid.
shareNo, domestic does matter more because the studio gets a larger percentage of the sale from US tickets and a smaller percentage from foreign sales. The bad part about reporting gross sales is that it's still not clear how much the studio made.
shareOh, I get it. You're another of wallfish's sock accounts. Alright, wallfish/Tenzan/QueenFanUSA, anything to make Moana look bad and Sing good, right?
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
No, I don't think you get it at all.
shareNo, I get it, alright. You want me to say every Disney film of 2016 is a flop.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
You seriously do not have a clue. No, I don't want you to say that. I don't give a flying fig about the performance of said film, other than it makes enough for the studio to want to make more films. I don't follow every ticket sale and worry over every other studio. If Illumination does well - well then, good for them! This is simply not my bag. I was, however, trying to explain something to you that I've learned from people in the industry. Do with it what you will. I don't care. I do care when you insult posters, however, especially over stupid *beep* like this.
share You don't know anyone in the business. Don't lie to me.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
I'm not lying, but even with the part that was explained to me, I still don't understand a lot about ticket sales. Queen's posts usually seem like an extreme statement to me because, from where I sit, Disney is doing just fine. Profits aren't transparent. I tend to look more at the financial news for the studios to see what they say about the performance of their films. They don't always say.
I *think* Moana is quite successful. I don't see why it matters if it is more successful than any other film out there, but that seems to be the point of Queen's many posts. On the other hand, I've started to suspect that Queen either works for Disney or knows someone who does because of the way they root exclusively for Disney/Pixar movies and the way they worry over the performance of each film. Who knows. They never respond when I ask them directly. Maybe they know something about how the studio does their accounting that the rest of us don't. Somehow, I still think their statements are an exaggeration and the purpose is to drum up sales for Disney.
They're/you're a troll. Plain and simple. I only respond to their misinformation.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
I'm a troll? I'm not the one making personal attacks over something that is a matter of fact, not opinion. If there's "misinformation", then correct it - offer what you know. Don't attack people over it.
shareYou're a troll for being one of wallfish's sock accounts.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
WeirdRaptor...you continue to embarrass yourself. OhNoooos is one the posters with the highest level of integrity on these boards. A true animation fan.
shareI'm blushing, Queen. That's very nice of you. Rapter and I worked it out, so no worries.
shareQueenFanUSA... a stupid cretin like you is in no position to ever tell anyone they're embarrassing themselves. You are a troll of the lowest order and a moronic one at that. Your attempts to convince the world Disney is losing the war when they've actually produced FOUR billion dollar movies in the same year. No, you're the one embarrassing yourself by continuing to live. Please cease to be and spare the rest of the world you inane existence.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
Seriously, this is over the top. So what if Queen posts that the sky is falling? It doesn't harm you! But insulting them is hurtful and it makes you look like a troll.
Posting on the topic that Queen does is NOT of the lowest order nor does it make them a troll. Trolls are nasty people who try to start fights and who attack other posters. The easiest thing to do if you don't like their posts is to ignore them. Just walk on by. Go find a thread that interests you and start participating there.
There's more than one type of troll though.
Not to say I agree with WeirdRaptor's wild accusations about sock puppetry, but there is the type known as "concern troll":
NOUN
informal, derogatory
A person who disingenuously expresses concern about an issue with the intention of undermining or derailing genuine discussion:
That is an interesting definition. I'm not sure. The thing is, no matter what we think of these posts, since they are in their own threads, they are not disrupting other conversations, they are the conversation. In the grand scheme of things, their posts are harmless and easily ignored.
I would love to see more discussion about the movie itself. It's harder to gain an entry there. Arguments seem to draw more attention.
Their posts are NOT harmless. They're meant to make Disney look bad for the sake of making Warner Bros look good.
That's why QueenFanUSA insists its a flop. That draws from the film's merits and has people less likely to think about the film, itself. She's a troll.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
I don't care if what I post to them is hurtful. They deserve none of my respect for being a waste of human life. It is a travesty that pillocks like her get to live nice, cushy lives with which to spread their ignorance while millions of children starve in Third World Nations.
QueenFanUSA IS a troll and I will treat them as such. I give trolls no quarter. No, I will not walk away as long as she insists on spreading misinformation.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
It is a travesty that pillocks like her get to live nice, cushy lives with which to spread their ignorance while millions of children starve in Third World Nations.One thing has nothing to do with the other and a change in Q's behavior will not affect the well being of the other. If you are concerned with starving children in third world nations, then do something about it instead of going to battle with harmless posters on IMDB. share
I already do, and I'm going to continue to tell Q what a worthless waste of oxygen she is, and you are not going to dissuade me from that. So you might as well just shut up and move on.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
Oh, I get it. You're another of wallfish's sock accounts. Alright, wallfish/Tenzan/QueenFanUSA, anything to make Moana look bad and Sing good, right?
Mmmm...I was thinking conspiracy theorist. It's not that hard to look at someone's posting history to get a sense of what they are concerned about. They could have easily checked it out and figured out that I was not Queen. I have no idea who the other posters are.
shareYeah, I wouldn't waste more time with it.
BUGS
Having a long history with the site doesn't discount the possibility of using sock accounts. In any case, you suddenly showed up attempting to back up two morons trying to tell me Moana is flopping.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
No, I didn't back up the notion that Moana was failing. I backed up the claim about US ticket sales counting for more and I explained why. I provided information. And again, with the name calling! It makes you look incredibly immature and that you have no leg to stand on.
I wasn't talking about how long a poster has been on the site. Look at some of their posts. It's simple. I do it anytime someone interests me or irritates me. Right now, you're irritating me. A lot.
GSmith - I agree. Not worth the energy.
Yet you'll never find anyone you'll say "Star Wars, Episode VII: The Force Awakens made 1 billion at the box office". It made 2.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
I have no idea what you're talking about.
shareIf the U.S. box office was the only thing that mattered, no one would ever mention the world wide total, but they do. That right there disproves your whole argument.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
Again, this isn't an argument any more that discussing whether snow falls from the sky or if the earth is flat or not.
The total matters, but here's the way I understand it works: Ticket sales in the US give a bigger percentage of return to the studio than foreign sales. I believe the differential is significant enough that people look for a healthy number of sales in the US first. However, total sales worldwide still contribute to the bottom line. Another thing: ticket sales on the opening weekend give a larger percentage to the studios and a smaller percentage to the theater. That percentage goes down the next weekend and down again after that. I'm not sure at what point it stops changing. Opening weekend counts for the most. I saw someone claim this isn't true any more, but I was assured by my sources that it still is. Pretty sure you can google some of this.
Correct. However, the difference is not so much that the world wide total should be cast to the side during discussions about whether a film is successful or not. The international market can also be the difference between landing in the red and landing in the black. To say "only the domestic gross matters", like one moron on here did is just factually incorrect.
Alright, look, I'm sorry. I come on to a lot of these discussions expecting a fight and I start on the offensive by default because expect to be assaulted with words.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
Apology accepted.
The whole thing about ticket sales and even production costs isn't straight forward. I wouldn't mind learning more about it.
Whoa! Whoa! May I intervene here? I already see there's a mini conversation getting heated up between OhNooos, WeirdRaptor, and GSmith.
I think I've seen all three of these posters on Imdb to know long enough that they are not trolls. So there should be no more accusations going on around here. But it seems like everything has worked out for now.
And Sing just won't stop...projected to be still in the top 5 this weekend(#4) with an estimated 9 million for a cume of 250 milion domestic. Sing is profitable on it'domestic numbers alone..international is all gravy.
Moana, on the other hand, may just now breaking even with it's entire worldwide gross.
Seems like the truth feels like "trolling" to some on this board.
As a rule of thumb, a film needs to double its budget in grosses in order to break even. Since Moana didn't have an exceptionally aggressive merchandising campaign (in comparison to, say BvS), the standard rule should hold. With a budget of $150 million, Moana broke even at $300 million and is now nearly $200 million in the black.
Between that, Marvel, and Lucasfilm, I really don't think Disney is losing much sleep over their financial situation.
Why are you?
[deleted]
Bull and crap. The rule of thumb has never included the marketing budget, which is paid off separately from the film, by the way. The rule of thumb is only that a film needs to double its production budget to break even. Adding the marketing budget was something recently added by people like you.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
[deleted]
Wrong. All my life, it's always been "double the production budget". The marketing budget was NEVER a part of the equation until people like you came along. You moved the goalpost, you big baby.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
[deleted]
1. You can drop the pretenses. I know you're just QueenFanUSA using a sock puppet.
2. Wrong.
3. You have no idea how marketing works.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
[deleted]
Copy/pasted from my profile:
WeirdRaptor
IMDb member since March 2003
IMDb Member
13 years
Troll harder, QueenFanUSA.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
@Sumatran RatMonkey: Probably because FANTASTIC BEASTS are eating DR. STRANGE alive,
worldwide.
"If sanity were beer, I'd be five cans short of a sixpack."
"Since Moana didn't have an exceptionally aggressive merchandising campaign (in comparison to, say BvS), the standard rule should hold."
What a joke of a statement. Where do you have a link/source that Moana's marketing costs were small. There was a TON of merchandise(since you cited this) on store shelves throughout the Christmas season. Plenty of add buys on television...the marketing campaign couldn't have been cheap...and that's just in the U.S..
$150 million has never been officially announced by Disney as the production budget and looking at the end result of this glorious film I would bet it was quite a bit higher.
I do think it's probably in the black now, but not by much.
Between that, Marvel, and Lucasfilm, I really don't think Disney is losing much sleep over their financial situation.
Why are you?
Plus, all of the anecdotal reports concerning Moana merchandise have not encouraging at all.
shareUh, Queenie, you seem to be forgetting that Zootopia and Finding Dory were the 3rd and 2nd highest grossing films of 2016, both making over a billion dollars, each. Moana performing "just fine" instead of "magnificently" is not going to hurt Disney animation. When Moana finishes its theater run, Disney will have THREE successful animated films from 2016. Sing won't come close to Zootopia or Finding Dory numbers.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
WeirdRaptor...you're not a "big picture" guy are 'ya?
shareNo, you're not a picture person. The big picture is:
Disney squashed all the competition in 2016!! Captain America: Civil War beat out all the other comic book movies. Zootopia and Finding Dory beat out all the other animated films. Jungle Book beat everything that was left to beat. And Rogue One: A Star Wars Story will double crush everything else all over again.
You can't ignore any of the above just because Illumination got lucky with Sing.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
[deleted]
Wrong on literally every account, QueenFanUSA.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
Civil war disappointed since it made far less than age of ultron, finding dory barely crossed a billion when it should have thrashed frozen, amd Rogue one suffered a huge fall from force awakens.
Trying to make Disney, the studio with all top 5 films of 2016 (4 of them crossing a billion) and the studio that just set a new record for WW gross in a single year, sound unsuccessful is just....I can't even comprehend how idiotic you are being.I'm still at the point where I'm trying to figure out why they're even trying.
1. Civil war is pratically an avengers movie minus thor and hulk which arent as big of draws as iron man and captain america. Also, spiderman was in it. It should have done at least iron man 3 business.
2. Finding dory was indeed supposed to be the biggest animated film at the box office.
3. I will give it to you that the poster was an idiot that time for star wars but it still should have done at least 1.3 billion.
Its abou expectations too, not just money and budgets.
Uh, Queenie, you seem to be forgetting that Zootopia and Finding Dory were the 3rd and 2nd highest grossing films of 2016, both making over a billion dollars, each.
You'll just do anything to put a negative spin on the numbers to make Disney look bad, won't you? Troll.
The Secret Life of Pets is number 6, but it's several hundred million behind Zootopia and Finding Dory.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
Wrong again.
Try less than 150 million and at half the cost.
And what's with throwing out the "troll" stuff every time you are challenged? It's really weak.
Nope. That's the first thing I've been wrong about.
Disney holds the entire Top 5 of last year. Yet you claim they're in immediate peril. You are a troll, wallfish, and your attempts to put a negative spin on the box office of any and all Disney films is really weak.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
[deleted]
Yes, she is.
The marketing is a non-factor because that gets paid off every time someone watches an ad or buys a piece of merchandise. No, Disney is the true success story for this year and last year, because they made the most money. Also, you spelled it "truce", moron.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
I'm "wallfish"? I don't even know who that is.
Anyway...marketing costs aren't a factor and they are paid for every time I watch an ad?
LOL...whaaaat?
Btw, do you have any data on how well the merchandise is selling? All the anecdotal reports I've been getting have not been good.
Ads work like TV ratings and generate money every time someone watches them.
Yeah... I'm not gonna take your word on the reports for anymore than a single grain of sand. You're the same ignoramus that's been trying to convince me Disney is losing to its competitors even though they have the entire Top 5 of 2016 filled with their movies.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
[deleted]
No, the marketing agency profits. Not the film.
Yes, it does work like that. The studio might pay for the ads, but they get paid off in ratings and other sales. Marketing and production are covered differently. Get that through your tiny mind.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
[deleted]
Marketing budget is assumed to be covered by aftermarket sales (merchandise, DVD sales, CD sales, etc.). Basically non-theater costs are covered by non-theater sales. Hence why the rule of thumb has been and always will be double the production budget, not double the combined budget.
shareBecause I am talking about the ramifications for Disney Animation. If they see no upside in spending the resources for something like Moana when Illumination can make cheap crap like Sing and Secret Life of Pets and easily outstrip it's grosses, that could be ominous in the future.
The Walt Disney Company will care and they hold the pursestrings...not WDAS or Pixar.
shareDisney doesn't care. They're already making an insane amount of money from these films despite the budgets.
Galaxy's princess
Her mother, singer in rain
Unite in heaven
Disney doesn't care. They're already making an insane amount of money from these films despite the budgets.
They did make an insane amount of money from Zootopia and Finding Dory, and Moana will also bring healthy profits.
Galaxy's princess
Her mother, singer in rain
Unite in heaven
You are talking to a dead-brain lobotomy patient, Rey. The only thing you can do is make sure their misinformation is countered.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf
[deleted]
[deleted]
Sing's currently at $178 million overseas. Like I said before, unless it breaks out in UK or China it won't be going much further than $350 million, so even if the Polynesian princess lost to singing animals in US she still has a decent chance of winning overseas (no matter how much would you like to think otherwise).
Galaxy's princess
Her mother, singer in rain
Unite in heaven