pretty big flop by disney animation standards - Moana (2016) Discussion

[–] pale_dog 8 years ago

Suuuuure, because if a movie is not Frozen is a flop.

Pretty sure this movie never expected anything the likes of a Frozen hit, which was obviously a special case and not something every new musical by Disney can be expected to live up to.

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[–] QueenFanUSA 8 years ago

At the very least it's an underperformer. Domestiically it will struggle to hit Tangled's total and overseas has been tepid.

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[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

Domestiically it will struggle to hit Tangled's total and overseas has been tepid.

Hahahahaha do you actually believe that?

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[–] number1212 8 years ago

It will hit Tangled's total by the end of next weekend.

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[–] Ginger87 8 years ago

Domestiically it will struggle to hit Tangled's total

Tangled's overall domesticate gross was $200 million. I'm a little confused as to how Moana will struggle to reach that number, given that it's current domesticate gross is at $194.8 million. Looks to me like it will be well pass the $200 million mark within the next few days. Unless of course Disney just yanks Moana from all the theaters today, which I don't see happening.

*All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players.*🎭

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[–] troyplafond 8 years ago

You must be new here, there's an absurd wave of illogical pessimism going around about the performance of Disney movies.

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[–] Ginger87 8 years ago

I've been a member of IMDB for many years, and have actually encountered QueenFanUSA starting similar debates on the boards of many other recent Disney and Pixar films, including Maleficent, Cinderella, Big Hero 6, and Finding Dory. I'm honesty not surprised to see that he/she started it here. And I'm sure come March, he/she will be starting threads over on the Beauty and the Beast board talking about how The Boss Baby will be sabotaging Beauty and the Beast's run.

*All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players.*🎭

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[–] QueenFanUSA 8 years ago

I love you, Ginger87!

Happy New Year!

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[–] Smoked_Herring 8 years ago

Sad isn't it, Ginger87?

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[–] A-Rey-of-Light 8 years ago

And I'm sure come March, he/she will be starting threads over on the Beauty and the Beast board talking about how The Boss Baby will be sabotaging Beauty and the Beast's run.



Sadly, true. Seriously, is there any Disney films of recent times whose box office run (s)he did not complain about?

Galaxy's princess
Her mother, singer in rain
Unite in heaven

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[–] Smoked_Herring 8 years ago

Apparently most of the ones that actually bomb like The Finest Hours, Alice Through the Looking Glass, and Queen of Kawte. How come (s)he never gave a *beep* about those three movies on their pages? They had to go up against the likes of Kung Fu Panda 3, Angry Birds, and Storks respectably. Queen didn't immediately trash or fault those animation companies as much for the downfall of the other three Disney films.

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[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

So, if we just agree, will that end the discussion?

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[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

LMAO

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[–] QueenFanUSA 8 years ago

Have you seen this weekend's numbers?

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[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

I don't want to say "shut up", I'm a polite person.

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[–] troyplafond 8 years ago

This weekend's numbers were absolutely incredible, what are you on? It was against fresh competition in Sing, and the biggest day of the weekend (Saturday) was Christmas Eve, severely limiting it. Despite this, it only dropped 40% for the 3-day, and per some new estimates from Rentrak, it'll hit nearly 12 million for the 4-day, flat with last week. It's doing amazing, and will hit Tangled numbers by the end of next weekend at the very latest, and continue to play strong through January thanks to no new competition until...The Lego Batman Movie in February.

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[–] JDLail 8 years ago

Anyone have have a notion as to why the overseas numbers are so low ?

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[–] QuibblerofDoom 8 years ago

Well they did release it against Fantastic Beasts that has done extremely well internationally.

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[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

It has yet to release in a number of markets actually. I believe it is open in only about half of its total international markets right now.

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[–] troyplafond 8 years ago

Staggered opening.

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[–] sul-uddin96 8 years ago

There are a lot of reasons as to why Frozen did so well. But this movie is STILL doing well... hardly counts as a "flop".

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[–] Zaphenzo 8 years ago

How is $330 mil with a wealth of heavy international markets left to open in a "huge flop"?

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[–] Marjeez 8 years ago

Disney doesn't make big animations with the thought it will make a few million. The budget - advertisements couldn't have been any less than $250-$300 million, it'll need 600 million to break even.

~RANKING 2016 FILMS~
imdb.com/list/ls031254554
Last seen: Moana

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[–] Zaphenzo 8 years ago

I find it ironic that only the people trying to detract from the movie's box office are the ones saying it apparently has a marketing budget of $150M. Are you also of the opinion that Sing has an apparently $0 marketing budget, like Punba and Krychs like to pretend (who are possibly the same person)?

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[–] Marjeez 8 years ago

the $150 million budget isn't accurate pal. it's an estimate and does not show up on boxofficemojo

it could be anywhere from 150-200 million. and the advertisements can be over $50 million, yes.

compare that to Sing, with a budget of 75 million and has a lot more room for advertisement

~RANKING 2016 FILMS~
imdb.com/list/ls031254554
Last seen: Moana

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[–] Zaphenzo 8 years ago

The $150M is for everything besides marketing. To claim that marketing then costs $150M and that a movie then has to double that combined budget to break even is to suggest that, besides Frozen and Zootopia, WDAS has made nothing but flops since 1994.

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[–] Marjeez 8 years ago

I never said marketing was $150 million.

~RANKING 2016 FILMS~
imdb.com/list/ls031254554
Last seen: Moana

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[–] sju23 8 years ago

No one said marketing budget for sing was zero. Just that the 75 million budget included marketing costs where as moanas 150 million budget was just for production.

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[–] WeirdRaptor 8 years ago

Moana's already broken even, you idiot.

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf

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[–] seizeethat 8 years ago

And even that's disappointing considering how its the next big musical after frozen. It shouldn't be just breaking even.

Sing, and even lalaland to an extent, sucked out some interest of moana before they even came out.

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[–] ma3337 8 years ago

To all the people who think Moana is a flop, How much money do you think the movie needs to make to be considered successful?
not a Frozen sized hit, just successful.

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[–] QueenFanUSA 8 years ago

I would guess that it needs to crack 500 million WW before it's profitable. I don't buy this film's budget was only 150 million, tbh. The animation towers over all that has come before and just screams "expensive". The problem is that it's highly probable it doesn't hit 500 million.

To answer your question directly, I would say 700 million would make this film an unqualified success.

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[–] troyplafond 8 years ago

If they said it costs 150 million to make, it costs 150 million to make. They gain absolutely nothing by lying about the movie's budget before it was even released.

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[–] Syrngfsse2 8 years ago

Theres also 150 million in marketing costs too. While marketing budg3ts arent released, its a know fact that the marketing budget equals production at the very least.

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[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

Marketing budget could be closer to $100M actually. Doctor Strange is reported to have a marketing budget of $100-125M, and that was more expensive than Moana to make, it had a $165M production budget.

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[–] Zaphenzo 8 years ago

Marketing budget could be closer to $100M actually. Doctor Strange is reported to have a marketing budget of $100-125M, and that was more expensive than Moana to make, it had a $165M production budget.

Wow, if Doctor Strange was only $125M advertising, then Moana is DEFINITELY less than that. Doctor Strange was much more widely marketed than that. Its trailers were coming out months and months before the movie, and were played before many more movies. I only saw Moana trailers before 2 movies, both very close to the release, and one was a Disney movie. I saw DS trailers before at least 7 or 8 movies. I also didn't see any TV spots for Moana until after it was released. I saw a few TV spots for DS before it was released. Sure, that only shows where I'm from as an example, but I assume marketing is spread out for the most part, so could be a decent indicator.

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[–] troyplafond 8 years ago

The Doctor Strange marketing push was insane. If that only cost 100-125 million, Moana's couldn't be much more than 75 million.

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[–] Zaphenzo 8 years ago

Theres also 150 million in marketing costs too. While marketing budg3ts arent released, its a know fact that the marketing budget equals production at the very least.

If this is such a known fact, surely you could find a link or two proving it?

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[–] troyplafond 8 years ago

People say this all the time, but always suddenly go silent when I ask for evidence of this claim.

So, again, evidence?

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[–] QueenFanUSA 8 years ago

Who said it only cost 150 million to make?

Why would tbey lowball it, you ask? Shareholder concern and "putting the best face on it", maybe?

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[–] Zaphenzo 8 years ago

Like a good 10-15 different box office sites. I believe I linked them in this thread, but it might have been a different thread. There's like 5 different box office number threads at this point XD

But those reasons for lowballing it don't make sense. Shareholder concern? Shareholders will know the bottom line when they see the change in the price of the stock. They couldn't be like "We spent 50 million on this movie, so it making 300 million is a big success!" and expect their shareholders to believe it when they see the stock price drop.

PS: That example was not about Moana, as Moana has already far surpassed $300M.

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[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

OH MY GOD. $150 MILLION ISN'T EXPENSIVE? REALLY? ZOOTOPIA HAD A $150M BUDGET. WHY DO YOU BELIEVE MOANA DIDN'T COST AS MUCH?

$700 MILLION? REALLY? WRECK-IT RALPH WAS SUCCESSFUL WITH LESS THAN $500M. AND EVEN IF YOU THINK THAT'S LOW, THEN TANGLED AND BIG HERO 6 WERE BOTH SUCCESSFUL TOO, AND THEY DIDN'T MAKE $700 MILLION.

JUST ACCEPT THE FACT THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BOX OFFICE AND SHUT UP YOU LITTLE ATTENTION SEEKER.

MY IGNORE LIST IS WAITING FOR YOU.

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[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

Is this really what we're going to fight about? There are people on this board who are racists and misogynists. There are homophones on IMDB. There are those who want the Third Reich and the South to rise again. There are people who act like spoiled children to anyone who doesn't say, "I agree" to their narrative. There are cheap and rampant thieves who crawl out of the woodwork the minute anything new is released or even in the air, offering free downloads or streaming of pirated copies of movies. Can't we fight their harmful ideas instead? Box office stuff, performance...these are minor disagreements that just don't matter in the greater scheme of things.

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[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

I normally wouldn't react like that, but QueenFanUSA made me loose my patience. She is trolling (because that's trolling, clearly) like this for months now. This is probably not the best way to react to her, it's a rather stupid action, but I feel better now. I will just put her in my ignore list and forget about her.
As for the homophobes and others you mentioned, well, they are too for the ignore list. They are trolls too.
And I'm not really fighting anyone here. It’s pretty pointless to fight with anyone on this or any site.

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[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

You're not alone, I've heard it before and I understand. I, for one, don't really appreciate the numbers game and suspect that Queen has a horse in the race. This may be her way of drumming up support/patronage of anything Disney.

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[–] Zaphenzo 8 years ago

Is this really what we're going to fight about? There are people on this board who are racists and misogynists. There are homophones on IMDB. There are those who want the Third Reich and the South to rise again. There are people who act like spoiled children to anyone who doesn't say, "I agree" to their narrative. There are cheap and rampant thieves who crawl out of the woodwork the minute anything new is released or even in the air, offering free downloads or streaming of pirated copies of movies. Can't we fight their harmful ideas instead? Box office stuff, performance...these are minor disagreements that just don't matter in the greater scheme of things.

IMDb is a message board. We're not exactly going to change the world with it. But it's fun to debate about box office stuff while we're on here.

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[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

I agree and when it's kept fun, it's harmless.

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[–] Therru_Babayaga 8 years ago

Can't we fight their harmful ideas instead?

You can't, not here anyway, because they don't care about those ideas to begin with for the most part. They just want to piss people off, even if it means they get hurt in the process. Why do you think so many people voted for Trump? Because many enjoyed the fact of seeing people lose their mind over him. And for those who really believe what they say, it's not here you're gonna make them change their mind, because it's prejudices they have developped for many many years, maybe since childhood, and they don't care about evidences, or they pick only facts that goes their way and dismiss the rest, or take a single example to make a generality. Seriously, how do you want to discuss that?

On the contrary, it reinforces their beliefs (if you can call that belief), and you play their game, which you absolutely shouldn't. Keep an eye on them in the real world and ignore them on the internet, it's the easier way to deal with that.

None of those people you mentioned above deserves any of your time on those boards, so make good use of the ignore button and report also for open racist, homophobic and mysoginist comments, as well as those streaming sites. That's the only way you can do something useful, discussing those ideas here is just a waste of your time and energy, and it's really not the place to do such things. Most of those topics and comments get deleted anyway, so don't bother (how many discussions and time have I lost figthing mysoginy on Mad Max: Fury Road board...). Once in a while maybe, but that's really to much energy required for nothing.

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[–] QueenFanUSA 8 years ago

@hold-the-door

Ma333 asked for our OPINION of what would qualify as a "success" for Moana. I think 700 million WW would make it an unquestionable success all things considered. In a world where Secret Life of Pets can almost make 900 milion on a 75 milion budget
you really think my answer is "trolling? For the first Disney Princess Musical since Frozen?

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[–] Punba74 8 years ago

This is what a disney shill looks like when hes angry.

Wreck it ralph did flop actually. Tangled likely lost some money too and big hero 6 barely broke even.

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[–] Hold_the_door 8 years ago

This is what a disney shill looks like when hes angry.

And I'm not even a Disney Shill, lol.

Wreck it ralph did flop actually. Tangled likely lost some money too and big hero 6 barely broke even.

Source?

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[–] The_Ginger_Man 8 years ago

Wreck it Ralph was not a flop. It would not be getting a sequel if it was.

Tangled was in production for a long time, and likely the theatrical release did not bring in a profit. But it has likely since brought in more money through merchandize, and is now getting a TV series which shows Disney does not remotely consider it a failure or a flop.

If you want to see how Disney treats properties that really lose them money, check how Black Cauldron, Atlantis, and Treasure Planet have been treated after their release. Not to mention Chicken Little, which did bring in money, but had a planned sequel cancelled due to poor reputation.

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[–] sju23 8 years ago

Atlantis got a sequel.

And the other 2 are insane flops that are undeniable. Doesnt mean tangeled and wreck it ralph werent flops either.

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[–] WeirdRaptor 8 years ago

They weren't flops, you imbecile. Literally no one calls them that. Only you and your inbred brethren have in your disease-ridden minds that any of the recent Disney crop are flops. If Tangled was a flop, why has the entire resurgence of Disney animated musicals patterned itself after it? Because it was a hit, you moron.

Also, Atlantis had a Direct-to-Video sequel. That is not the same as having a big budget, theatrically released one.

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf

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[–] seizeethat 8 years ago

Atlantis still got a sequel. Just like lion king.

Tangeled did have a high budget of 250 million. Tangeled probably did a lot better in home video sales but it just broke even in theatrical sales.

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[–] A-Rey-of-Light 8 years ago

and big hero 6 barely broke even.

Deadline would like to disagree with you:

http://deadline.com/2015/03/big-hero-6-profit-box-office-2014-1201390825/

Galaxy's princess
Her mother, singer in rain
Unite in heaven

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[–] WeirdRaptor 8 years ago

Hey, Rey, if you have any idea why it's so important to these losers that Disney look bad, I'd love to know.

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf

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[–] seanfinnau 8 years ago

i dunno why people keep going on and on about muh formula and every movie has to be this or that.

Compared to Marvel (Disneys) crap of late this was a breath of fresh air.

Its just i think people are getting tired of so many animated movies every year they are flooding the filmscape with similar movies instead of maybe only releasing 1 or so a year they are what doing 2-4+? Its just too many movies.

Moana is no different than Mulan or Frozen or Lilo and Stitch ALL these movies have the same formula its just you all seem to be getting tired of it.

ayy

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[–] desertgaara1995 8 years ago

I finally watched it. It was released in a pretty bad time and also I guess the fact that there was not even a hitn of romance didn't help it. (Brave that also had no romance didn't do as well as expected either)

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[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

I agree about the timing. I was keen on seeing it, but due to holidays, traveling, and visits, it took a while. What did you think? I remember you seemed hesitant in another thread?

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[–] desertgaara1995 8 years ago

Yes, however I ended up watching it. It was decent but doesn't seem very memorable, not one of my Disney favorites.

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[–] QueenFanUSA 8 years ago

@xesertgara

I, too, think that not having a hint of romance in the film was a contributing factor in it's box office underperformance.

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[–] A-Rey-of-Light 8 years ago

I, too, think that not having a hint of romance in the film was a contributing factor in it's box office underperformance.

Are you serious?

Galaxy's princess
Her mother, singer in rain
Unite in heaven

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[–] QueenFanUSA 8 years ago

Yes! Romance is a big draw...especially for repeat viewership.

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[–] FantasticFearOfMisterBobo 8 years ago

Explain Zootopia and its 1 billion dollars?

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