Attractive


I like the series however ... I've lived in NYC and have been a part of that crowd. Rich older men, strip clubs, prostitution.

There are women way more attractive in the strip club profession. Ballet dancers are super thin and not very attractive in person.

A rich man donating to Ballet is more than likely doing it for the status. Sleeping with balarina's seems illogical for someone who's that rich.

NYC has the most beautiful strippers and prostitutes than anywhere in the world.

I don't think the main actress is that attractive .. At all. I think they should have hired someone who's better looking then I think it makes more sense.

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Also, the strip clubs in NYC aren't owned by Russian mobsters. They are mostly owned by Jews.

Maybe, if they were in Queens they would be owned by Russians.

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I find your posts to be informative and insightful - thanks.

Yes, I think that there are at least a few things in this series that may not quite be consistent with reality. For example - where Claire and Mia live...is this supposed to be Manhattan? The apartment seems a little gritty for today's Manhattan - which has largely become a bastion of glossed-over, expensive apartments and brownstones. And I suspect that someone like Romeo would not be allowed to "squat" in the bowels and on the rooftop of an apartment building - he would be harassed and run out of most parts of Manhattan by the NYPD. Romeo doesn't fit the favored demographic - he would be viewed as a detriment to a neighborhood's image. Do they allow anyone to live in Manhattan for free these days?

It seems that the section of Manhattan that is portrayed as Claire's and Romeo's neighborhood is more 1980s' Manhattan than 2010s' Manhattan.

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I couldn't agree more. Especially, the homeless gentleman that lives under the stoop.

One thing I didn't mention before is that most of the strippers in NYC has large breasts. Dancers are usually flat chested. I don't know if many of them would get hired at top places.

The writer apparently were in this New York ballet scene but I don't know if they lived in the city.

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Yep, I can see how ballet dancers would be considered too skinny and emaciated for many strip clubs. Interestingly, in this series - there didn't appear to be that much difference between the bodies of the two ballet dancers and the bodies of the regular strippers. This is often not the case in real life.

I've read a few articles on Sarah Hay - who plays the lead character Claire (and dances in Sergei's strip club) - and these articles mentioned the fact that Sarah supposedly has a DD chest, which is unusual for a professional ballerina. Some people whom she has encountered in the ballet world have made her feel quite insecure about her "ample bosom", and as though she needs to get a breast reduction - but she has steadfastly refused to reduce her breast size. Good for her, I guess - but why am I doubting that she has a DD bosom? Perhaps it's because these articles also mentioned that she wears a Size 0 - and I'm thinking that a DD cup on a Size 0 frame would look positively gargantuan. I can see her wearing a C - but a DD?? Hmmm.

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I seriously doubt it. I myself have a DD chest and in high school I weighed 96 pounds on a 5'6" frame. You cannot wear a 00 top even if you're ematiated. You wear a small or medium.

I think they hired strip club dancers or actors that play strippers that are very thin. This is often done if you have overweight, underweight or short main actors.


Most strippers aren't that thin. Thin isn't really pleasing to men so I would imagine they hired extremely thin dancers so that the ballerinas look normal.

The Human Trafficking seems maybe a bit far fetched because of the party on the yacht. I would think that's too much exposure for the trafficker. I've read a lot about trafficking and they hide in the shadows for the most part. Also, for someone who owns a strip club in Manhattan making that much money leagally it seems unlikely that they would mess with something as illegal as Human Trafficking. But, you never know how greedy these people are.

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You bring up another good point about the human trafficking storyline. I know even less about the world of human trafficking than I do about the strip club world - but yes, it seems as though Sergei's young sex slaves were far too out in the open.

As for Sarah Hay and her chest-size...I myself wear a DD, and I have a much larger frame and I probably weigh twice as much as she does. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I have a hard time seeing how a professional ballerina could have roughly the same cup size as I do. Forget about the "line" for a moment - a ballerina having a chest that big might mean the difference between being able to do four pirouettes, and three. Turns and spins might be more difficult (just as they say that having a flatter chest is advantageous in gymnastics and figure skating).

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You know cup sizes change depending on the band size, right? A 30 DD and a 34 C are the same cup size.

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Thank you! Cup size is a relative measurement based off of an absolute one--band size. I am the same height as Sarah Hay, but an hourglass shape and probably 20 pounds heavier. I wear a 34 band, but her back is tiny, definitely no more than 30. She's definitely a DD, which means that breasts with her volume would be the same as a 34C. I assumed that when they said she was a size 0, they were referring to her waist/pants sizing.

Women don't wear the correct sizes most of the time. I wear a DDD, and my chest is simply a bit large (not freakish).

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It's nice to read your observations about the inaccuracies in the portrayal of the strip club milieu, and you should know that so much of the ballet stuff is also quite inaccurate. The writer was apparently not interested in giving authentic portrayals of either area. All of which is, I guess, ok, since it's not a documentary, but I find the over-the-top clichés and disregard for real life annoying, especially since so many people accept this stuff as truly representative of these professions.






Just make a movie that makes me care, one way or another. I'm open.

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I am not a "ballet insider", but I do know a little about the ballet world and I did study ballet for awhile as a youngster. In my view, the behavior of many of the ballet characters of this series was not so much unrealistic as (highly) exaggerated depictions of the competitiveness that exists among dancers, as well as the mania of company leaders. I think what we see of the ballet world in "Flesh and Bone" may exist in a much more subtle form in real life - the negative undercurrents of the ballet world generally aren't nearly as out in the open or as blatant as they are on the show. I guess this is pretty common in show business - people take what exists in a more muted form in real life and exaggerate it for the screen.

I think the catty, cut-throat behavior among real-life dancers was worse in past decades - more on par with "Flesh and Bone" than what exists today. I've read where Wendy Whelan (former New York City Ballet principal dancer) has referred to being the victim of other ballerinas' nasty behavior earlier in her career. And I think other dancers such as Gelsey Kirkland have alluded to the antagonism and "bitchiness" that can occur among dancers. It also hasn't been unheard of for artistic directors and choreographers to be egotistical, harsh, and (borderline) abusive. I just think that - since the "P.C. Movement" of the '90s - people have learned to tone down that behavior. Few people these days want to get a "reputation" for being an *beep* (even if they secretly hate their rivals).

And then there's Russia. From some things that I've read, "political correctness" has not yet come to Russia - or at least it hasn't graced the ballet companies there! I think you see a lot more of "Flesh and Bone"-type scenarios in the Russian ballet world.

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I don't believe we are sitting here really giving critique as if it were a documentary. It's just a discussion about the inaccuracies.

But I don't believe anyone here is an expert. It's just a discussion.

I'm a writer so I discuss a lot. :-)

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Original Poster- the series is fiction. It's called artistic license. The series also has a dreamlike quality, not intended to be a blueprint for realism.

You're honestly quibbling over what kind of owner is more commonly associated with stripclubs in NYC?? Uptight much?

Put away your foolish expectations. This isn't a documentary.



"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

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Actually, this is a discussion about a TV series IMDB allows this type of discussion and to be honest ... If you don't like the discussion then you don't have to read it. There are millions of threads all over IMDB ... Go find one you like and stop trolling. No one is forcing you to be here.

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This thread is...interesting.

Firstly, I know Sarah Hay. I have not seen her in a few years, but I can assure you that her breast size and clothing size are accurate. She is short- probably about 5'3" or 5'4" in real life- and very petite, although extremely fit and in no way "emaciated". (For the record, I've very rarely ever seen a professional dancer from any discipline that has been emaciated. They're lacking fat, sure- but they're all muscle and extremely fit, not the emaciated look of many runway models.) Sara does naturally have very large breasts- her sister, whom I know even better, is even thinner than Sara and has even larger natural breasts. I've shared clothes with them, I've seen the tags. The biggest factor is her height- it truly changes the size somebody wears. For example, at one time I had a roommate- we both wore a size zero. I was 5'8" and 110 pounds, she was 5' and probably about 125 pounds. I was a 30A bra size, she was a 32B. So Sarah's measurements simply are because of her height and because she is very fit.

Also- as to the realisticness of how "gritty" the apartment was: I think it looked like a pretty realistic standard apartment for many young New Yorkers. It's company housing- do you think they're going to put them up in a more well to do area? I know TV shows like to show young people in super fancy apartments, but for most young people I know who are in the performing world, this was much more accurate. It actually reminded me of Sarah's former apartment in real life, to be honest.

Also, in regards to strippers/escorts: I know quite a few girls who have worked as strippers or escorts in NYC. Everyone of them that I know, I'd describe as petite, fit, and curvy- but generally more booty than boobs. Generally these are girls who have worked with higher end clientele. But even in run of the mill strip clubs, there tends to be more booty than boobs. It depends on the demographic they're catering to- older generations were more in to "fluffy" women with bigger breasts and hips. Think of 80s supermodels, like Christie Brinkley or Cindy Crawford. Younger generations like a more "fit and toned" look, with a tight bubble butt- which dancers have. Are there some bigger girls stripping and escorting in NYC nowadays? Sure. It's a big city with lots of different sexual tastes. But I'd hardly call them the norm, particularly for the more high end situations.

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Pardon me if I'm missing something, but this thread seems completely pointless to me. Why the quibbling over details of what strip club girls look like, how realistic the ballet scenes are, what is the most likely ethnicity of strip club owners, etc. It's like an insane person started this thread.

The show isn't a documentary. If you want fact for fact realism of the ballet world, rent a doc or read a non-fiction book. The show is very obviously a psychological story, first and foremost, packed with a dreamlike world, and one filled with allegories, not a "documentary on ballet". Sheesh. The ballet world is simply the backdrop for investigating these characters and their inner turmoils. I think Ms. Walley-Beckett, the creator of this incredible show, would be dismayed that THIS is what some bizarre people are talking about after seeing the show.

I have put the OP on ignore because she seems very misguided and a little scary, to be honest, but I am surprised anyone else is taking the bait of this probable, bored troll. To the recent poster- it's cool that you know Sarah, but the details of her measurements, etc....feels inappropriate to be discussing this and who really cares, to be honest? People who have nothing better to do with their time, it seems.

This is probably the most bizarre IMDB thread I have ever come across. Bottom line- this was a great, haunting show, one that should fill you with thoughts other than the measurements of the actress and what kind of people own strip clubs. If that's all the OP got out of this show, I feel very very sorry for her. She is totally missing what this series was all about.

Strange strange peeps....wow.



"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

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Oh, I agree it's a weird thread. I wouldn't have said anything if people weren't doubting Sarah about something so ridiculous as her clothing size. I know people like to criticize actors for any random thing, but if people are pretty much calling her a liar about something I personally know to be true, I'm going to say something.

The rest of it was just stuff that I found weird for people to say, and since I was already replying- why not? I was bored ;)

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Also, the details regarding measurements were NOT Sarah's, other than an estimation of her height (which I might be wrong on- like I said, I haven't seen her in several years in person). The measurements I gave were examples of people who nobody on this board has any idea who they are, and neither myself nor the other person are Sarah. Anybody who watches the show can see for themselves that she's thin, fit, and has large breasts- I didn't provide any private info on that aspect.

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I understand. This thread is creepy, that's all....not your fault. The OP seems to have some serious issues.


"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

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There are literally umpteen articles that have recently circulated in which Sarah's bra size is given - and in which Sarah freely discusses the issues she's had with her breast size. I didn't seek out this information specifically - but when I wanted to know a little more about the show, or the lead actress, these are the articles that came up. Since launlori was discussing the builds of real-life strippers - and how the bodies of ballet dancers generally don't conform to those standards, etc. - I saw relevancy (and some irony) to those articles/interviews I had recently read regarding Ms. Hay, and the frequent mentions those articles made of her breast size.

These are the meanderings that (internet) conversations often take. People often discuss various aspects of these shows on these messageboards - from the mundane and trivial, to the esoteric. Just because people may get caught up in discussing certain details doesn't mean that they don't appreciate or didn't enjoy the show in general. I think the very reason I'm here is because I became a bit hooked on the show during its 8-week run.

Yes, I enjoyed this show - but I thought that launlori made an interesting and valid point, and I guess I felt compelled to acknowledge that. I think that calling her "scary" for making a straightforward observation about an industry of which she has knowledge and/or experience is uncalled for.

So the media and Ms. Hay herself can make her breast size a topic of discussion, and the show can venture into plotlines in which one's breast size can be a significant issue - but the audience is never allowed to discuss what they read or see if it pertains to this issue - or risk being labeled as "creepy". The irony of declaring this thread "creepy" - when the show itself was often quite creepy. Creepy shows may spawn creepy threads.

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There are literally umpteen articles that have recently circulated in which Sarah's bra size is given


That's all it took for me to stop reading. So many things to talk about in this deep, layered show and we're down to bra size. Lovely.

I'll go to other posts now that actually discuss the THEMES of the show, or many hidden meanings, etc. By all means, enjoy your fascinating discussion of Sarah's bra size.

And oh yeah, Sarah is a REAL ballet dancer, so there's your "realism" for those of you craving it.



"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

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