MovieChat Forums > Madam Secretary (2014) Discussion > Do yourself a favor and just watch The W...

Do yourself a favor and just watch The West Wing...

posted 10 years ago by The_paranoid_android
19 replies | jump to latest

Ever since I finished watching The West Wing, I've been jonsing for more great political drama that addresses a myriad of complicated issues with interesting characters that extends its storytelling past political lines and actually encourages people to debate and think about ideas. Madam Secretary is no West Wing. The characters we're presented with are always on the "right" side of the issues; it's never in debate, especially when they're confronted with the actual complexity of a situation. For instance, in their episode focusing on the "Snowden" stand-in, one of the cabinet members querries as to what he did was morally and ethically right. Fascinating lead-in to a discussion on the topic of watchdog groups and the responsibilities the government has to the people and vice-versa, right? Wrong. Another staff member just flatly states that he only did it for a book deal and fame. No extrapolation on the matter, and the only 'moral' point of contention is whether or not the good 'ol US will medically treat him back in the United States, even though he's soo totally unworthy of any help anyone in the government gives out.

I'm not the biggest House of Cards fan (the series downright pisses me off in some instances and some episodes feel more like cartoons than an actual dissection of 'real' political plans and maneuvers), but at least they show the multidimensional sides of an issue. If anything Madam Secretary only espouses the worst kinds of political messages with the audience - there's right and wrong sides of an issue with very little shades of gray, debating ideas is stupid, and if someone else doesn't share your opinion, it's alright to vilify them.

Fallen, fallen is Babylon

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[–] softballchicknic 10 years ago

I enjoy Madam Secretary, House of Cards, and the West Wing. All different types of shows but all enertaining in their own way. At least in my opinion.

[–] The_paranoid_android 10 years ago

I enjoy Madam Secretary, House of Cards, and the West Wing. All different types of shows but all entertaining in their own way. At least in my opinion.

I don't know. It's just that after The West Wing, it's always going to be in the back of my mind when I watch another show about politics in Washington D.C., especially involving the White House.

Fallen, fallen is Babylon

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[–] jmbwithcats 10 years ago

The West Wing is one of the best shows of all time, an incredible ensemble cast, and layered subplots that are Sorkin's best work. I think he's truly lost his way though by over recycling scenes, plots and dialog in his future shows that he seems incapable of letting go and inviting in new inspiration. Imho, there are only 2 good episodes of Newsroom... the pilot, and the EPA interview episode, too many recycled material throughout though, with an awful ensemble cast.

~*~

http://www.jmberman.com

[–] The_paranoid_android 10 years ago

The West Wing is one of the best shows of all time, an incredible ensemble cast, and layered subplots that are Sorkin's best work

Absolutely. I was a bit worried about the show post season 4 since I had heard from internet thread to thread that it goes downhill after Sorkin's leave of absence, but it actually kept the quality to an incredible high, sometimes even better than Sorkin. There are only a few missteps I think the show took, but they are incredibly few and far between that they're barely noticeable. The showrunners, cast, and crew manage to balance a MIND-SPLINTERING number of plot threads (for mini-arcs, major arcs, and personal arcs) while keeping them all fresh and engaging. This is EASILY one of my favorite shows of all time. The West Wing is obviously a bit more interested in the "left wing" view (not crazy "left wing" is always view), but they're more than eager to jump into the fray and say that all sides have worthy arguments and issues, and faults (even moreso with season 7, in my opinion). I feel like this is a show that EVERY American should watch from beginning to end and just realize the complexity, the failings, the structure, and (what I think Americans this day and age forgets) the triumphs that our government and country can do.

Imho, there are only 2 good episodes of Newsroom... the pilot, and the EPA interview episode, too many recycled material throughout though, with an awful ensemble cast.

That's too bad. I haven't seen The Newsroom, but I heard mixed reviews on it. I love Charlie Wilson's War, A Few Good Men, and The Social Network, and I really want to check out Moneyball. I liked The American President. He's one of the better writers out there and I wish him best of luck and success in writing since I really enjoy his work (regardless of how historically accurate they are in the case of Charlie Wilson's War and The Social Network).

Fallen, fallen is Babylon

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[–] jmbwithcats 10 years ago

West Wing is summed up well by President Bartlet's first inaugural address, or campaign I forget, but the banner read boldly, "PRACTICAL IDEALISM"

~*~

http://www.jmberman.com

[–] toddp-10 10 years ago

That's too bad. I haven't seen The Newsroom,

Ignore the critique above, The Newsroom is excellent and true to Sorkin form! As good as West Wing, no, but a very very good show if you like Sorkins style of dialogue.

Do not short change yourself by not seeing it!

This show is not even in the same game as West Wing, but it's not trying to be. Almost nothing in common

[–] The_paranoid_android 9 years ago

Ignore the critique above, The Newsroom is excellent and true to Sorkin form! As good as West Wing, no, but a very very good show if you like Sorkins style of dialogue.

Gotcha. I'll check it out.

In our struggle to survive the present, we push the future farther away.

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[–] horsenbuggy 9 years ago

It's worth watching but there ARE a lot of recycled plots. Not just from TWW, but also from Sports Night. Sorkin is Sorkin and he can't get away from his own tropes. I just happen to like his tropes.

[–] The_paranoid_android 8 years ago

It's worth watching but there ARE a lot of recycled plots. Not just from TWW, but also from Sports Night. Sorkin is Sorkin and he can't get away from his own tropes. I just happen to like his tropes.

Gotcha. Do you prefer Sports Night or Newsroom?

I like Sorkin, but he does have similar motifs, archetypes, and patterns to his stories and dialog. But I do like his writing for the most part. I feel similarly about Christopher Nolan. If I pay attention for too long, I begin to see the seams too easily, but if I break myself off and come back to it after a while, it's refreshing.

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[–] rdavies23 9 years ago

I've just posted on another thread about MS v WW. I couldn't concur more with your post.

I am half way through S2 of West Wing, and trying to make it last as long as possible by not bingeing on episodes (I will feel bereft when I've finished it!)

[–] The_paranoid_android 9 years ago

I am half way through S2 of West Wing, and trying to make it last as long as possible by not bingeing on episodes (I will feel bereft when I've finished it!

Yeah. It's definitely one of those shows you can't wait to finish, but dread doing so since it's going to be hard to find a replacement series. EASILY one of my top favorite TV shows of all time.

In our struggle to survive the present, we push the future farther away.

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[–] DoodleWhit 9 years ago

lol I watched the entire series as it aired years ago and loved it. I also have all 7 seasons of DVDs and I have watched them from beginning to end at least 10 over the last 10 years since it went off the air. Totally love it and still get a great laugh at some of the zingers. Still occasionally catch something that I totally never thought about before -- just great discovery and makes it feel new again. There are a couple of episodes that I skim through pretty fast when watching again, like the Long Goodbye (more a personal issue with me) but for the most part I savor every episode again and again.

They had great guest and recurring characters too.

[–] The_paranoid_android 9 years ago

Even the comedic bits are up there with some of the best TV I've ever watched, like CJ and the Turkeys, or Toby talking about salads.

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[–] pgooden 9 years ago

One of the best shows ever on Tv Martin Sheen's blast at God in Latin when his secretary was killed is wonderfully and masterfully done

[–] RetiredNLovinIt1209 9 years ago

I'm making my way through West wing as well. So much excellence -- great stories, wonderful multidimensional characters, astounding acting. I've been trying to make it go as slowly as possible. I just finished the last episode of season 5, and I can't believe I only have two more seasons to go.

However, I also love Madam Secretary and hate when the end of an episode. I love watching Tea Leoni, as I've been a longtime fan. I like the stories and the chemistry between Elizabeth and Henry. But it's no West Wing, for sure.

[–] thepartydjz 9 years ago

How can anyone be entertained by an actress that doesn't have a clue about acting, this is pure trash, idiotic writing and zero talent cast, give me a break, are american standards that low ?

My Top 50 Films http://www.imdb.com/list/ls033211402/

[–] pgooden 9 years ago

One of the finest shows ever broadcast on TV

[–] The_paranoid_android 8 years ago

One of the finest shows ever broadcast on TV

West Wing? Absolutely!

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[–] Sluggr-3 8 years ago

Sportsnight, yes. Left Wing, not so much.

A much better and truer political show is the "Yes, Minister" series. Just run any political statement through Sir Humphrey and you will get the decoded form of the truth.

My Chimp DNA seems to have lost its password temporarily. Sluggr-2