MovieChat Forums > Captain America: Civil War (2016) Discussion > Why do you think that people like Iron M...

Why do you think that people like Iron Man and hate Captain America?

posted 8 years ago by jacktrojan-79032
32 replies | jump to latest

I think that it's because more people are like Tony Stark and less people are like Steve Rogers.

Most people see Iron Man as the kind of person that they wish they could be like.

Also, by that rationale, most people hate Captain America because he is seen as someone who is pathetic.

People like Stark because he is everything that men admire and everything that women desire.

People hate Rogers because he seen as a representation of everything that is seen as a weakness.

Iron Man's Iron Man Armor and Captain America's Super-Soldier Serum, and Vita-Ray Treatment-empowered and enhanced physique is not What is being compared here.

What is being compared here is the general public's perception of two costumed heroes; one who is seen as a winner because he is a wealthy businessman, a scientific genius, a ladies' man, and a materialist, and another one who is seen as a loser because he is a "boy scout", a "goody two shoes", a " soldier boy" and a "straight arrow".

So because of this, many people see the two as exact polar opposites of each other. The only principal exception is that they both have being professional adventurers and professional crime fighters in common.

I myself am a Captain America fan. I am not an Iron Man fan. But I get why the general American public's perception is that Tony Stark is the one who they can relate to more and I also get why the general American public's perception is that Steve Rogers is cheesy, corny and lame.

I believe that it is a sign of the times. They are only comic book characters, and by extension, movie roles portrayed by actors Robert Downey, Jr., and Chris Evans, respectively. But they are also opposite ends of the spectrum archetypes for certain members of the human race on the Planet Earth.

It's sad, scary and true. Iron Man (Tony Stark) is the realistic all-American capitalist man of the future.

Captain America (Steve Rogers) is the gullible and naive, unrealistic obsolete American propaganda idealist.

Which, unfortunately, in these immoral, mediocre times, with people revering the power of the mind and the physical more so than the power of the heart and the spirit, not only speaks volumes about who we are as the American people living as citizens in the United States of America, but also speaks volumes about who we are as human beings in general living outside of the U.S.A.

[–] DesiredFX 8 years ago

I reject your thesis in its entirety on the basis that you've started with assumptions about the characters, particularly Steve Rogers, that aren't supported by what's shown in the comics and the films. Any conclusions you draw from such assumptions cannot possibly be anything more than an extension of those assumptions.

#TeamZemo

[–] jacktrojan-79032 8 years ago

I'm only going by the predominant mindset. I am in the minority. I actually like Captain America. But most people who I know, whether they are comic book fans like me, or not, do not like Captain America. The majority of them like Iron Man.

And it is mainly for the reasons that I had explained earlier. Ask anyone watching the Avengers movies. They will tell you 8 out of 10 times what I already said before. I don't like it but it is what is is.

[–] keekosdoctor 8 years ago

You must surround yourself with the wrong people, because my experience would refute that. Even the people who prefer Tony acknowledge Steve as a great character.

Top 10 BS Complaints about the MCU
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyz10UvdMKA

[–] keekosdoctor 8 years ago

People hate Captain America?

I know some people online (this board in particular) have expressed some hate for Steve, but I don't think the American public considers Cap "corny, cheesy and lame" at all. That may have been true a decade ago but since the MCU I've seen widespread love and appreciation for the character even outside of America, mostly because these movies have never portrayed him as a "gullible and naive, unrealistic obsolete American propaganda idealist". Steve is a clever, thoughtful, intelligent, guy who I think people (even non-Americans) can relate to just fine. Yes, he's an ideal to strive toward rather than a reflection of what we already are, but I don't think that alienates him from anyone.

Since Winter Soldier Steve has basically been the exact diametric opposite of the propaganda "love it or leave it" patriot everyone who never read comics viewed him as for decades, and most people pick up on that. He's opposing the government in this very movie!

Not to offend, but I think if anything is obsolete it's your belief that the public perceives Cap that way or doesn't appreciate him. At this point, especially after Winter Soldier and Civil War, no one is thinking of Captain America as "goody two shoes" or a "soldier boy" or a "straight arrow".

In short I think you have a very skewed view on what the "general public perception" of this character is.

Top 10 BS Complaints about the MCU
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyz10UvdMKA

[–] jacktrojan-79032 8 years ago

I have come to the conclusion that 75% to 98% of the human race is a bunch of f---ing a--holes. The remaining 2% to 25% are the only people left on the Planet Earth who aren't. At least, not yet. But the numbers are decreasing little by little. Eventually, the amount of a--holes will have ultimately increased to the point where people who are still anti-a--hole and counter-a--hole (just like me) will have become extinct.

There is a parallel mentality that also exists in DC Comics. Superman is very similar to Captain America. Batman is very similar to Iron Man. The fans, whether they are major comic book fans like me, or just fans of the movies, all become polarized and the choices become very divisive ones. There is also a correlation to the connection between the type of character that people like and the type of person who likes a particular character.

In other words, usually, if a person likes Superman and Captain America (I'm a fan of both) then that person has a similar personality to Kal-El/Clark Kent and Steve Rogers in that they are not an a--hole.

Usually, if a person likes Batman and Iron Man (I'm not a fan of either) then that person has a similar personality to Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark in that they are an a--hole.

This is because people relate to the appearances, attitudes, behaviors and lifestyles of characters in fiction only if they are approachable in familiar ways. I have had a lot of people make fun of me simply because I believe that a real costumed, super-powered super-hero is someone who honors the tradition of being motivated to maintain the responsibility of power and who prides himself, or herself on upholding the good. If a professional adventurer and a professional crime fighter is not being good, right and sane, then they are not a real hero.

I have a little bit of people in my life who I know that completely agree with me. But I also know a lot of people who totally disagree with me, and who think that it is utterly childish and immature to have that mindset. These people who are telling me this though, are the same people who call comic book characters like Batman "better" than comic book characters like Superman because they believe that people like Bruce Wayne are "more mature" than people like Kal-El/Clark Kent because Wayne's mindset is "more realistic" and Kent's mindset "doesn't operate in reality". So being principled and scrupulous is impractical in the real world. But being unprincipled and selfish apparently is. Yeah, right. Okay.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I just wanted to say what I had to say. I know that you don't agree but that's just how I feel.

[–] keekosdoctor 8 years ago

I'm nothing like Steve Rogers, outside of maybe a fleeting sense of idealism. But I like him a lot.

And in what sense is Batman unscrupulous, unprincipled or selfish? Excluding BvS.

Top 10 BS Complaints about the MCU
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyz10UvdMKA

[–] claus-51 8 years ago

Back when CA: TFA came out, I and my then-wife was in New York. I'm from Denmark, my wife was from the US. She refused flat out to go and see the movie, because "It's just going to be some dumb United States Rah-rah!" So I went alone (And loved it.)
When it came out of DVD, I bought it and told her "You should really watch this." She finally said OK, and when we had finished watching it, she said it was an amazing movie, and that she didn't find him overly nasty patriotic at all.
And until our divorce (and probably still today!) she loved the movie Cap.

[–] WeirdRaptor 8 years ago

Considering that audiences have utterly fallen in love with Cap, I have one thing to say:

What the hell have you been smoking?

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf

[–] bluehex 8 years ago

And we are feeding the troll why, exactly...? 

I'm too old for this sh*t...

[–] move_over_fatso 8 years ago

1) I wouldn't know if comic fans hate Captain America more than Ironman.

2) Captain America love is a generational thing. Namely, baby boomers who were raised to think of the world in black and white, good vs evil, etc. Millennials are too young to remember the "threat" of the Soviet Union, or how ridiculously militarized both nations were (and one still is).

People had to worry more about a nuclear armageddon than a large enough asteroid wiping out humanity. Think about how cosmically ridiculous that is. There's so remote a chance that an asteroid would hit the earth ocean, and tidalwave/generational winter extinguish human civilization, its actually more likely that human civilization collapses for some other reason. And yet, for four decades, we built weapons that were much more likely to end human civilization.

Ironman is another American mythos from the Cold War. The notion that genius, billionaire industrialists can make the world a better place, with "American knowhow". But its the one that survives now, as billionaire industrialists know better than you, and its multinational corporations and the UN that should be running the world, not one's conscience (which is embodied by Captain America).

There are a lot of deluded fools today, that think invading a country under the banner of Team America: World Police will make places like Syria better for everyone. Those are the people that are Captain America fans. Then there are real fans of what Captain America stand for. And they're exiled in Russia and called a traitor.

3) I am gobsmacked that this movie was so relatively thought provoking. How else to tear America down, than to let its own arrogance get the best of it? The villain probably won. He broke apart the greatest force used to impose the West's will on the world. And right now, there are *beep* in Russia, China, N. Korea, Iran, etc. that are studying our internal computer networks & infrastructure, ready to inflict "asymmetrical" warfare. Think of the damage that could be caused with a mere EMP, or circumstances to cause a market crash; just enough to cause civil unrest. Right now there is a clash between people who think law enforcement and the military should only have the power to defend Americans, and people that believe only an armed citizenry can truly keep themselves safe (at the expense of a lot of gun deaths per year). So, what side are you on?

[–] Hassan_Scarborough 8 years ago

I would love to be rich but I don't aspire to be a selfish, self absorbed, narcissistic alcoholic, who can't sustain a relationship with the opposite sex or a platonic relationship with the same sex.

Tony tries to do the right thing but Steve actually has the moral barometer to know what the right thing to do is.

I would "aspire" to be Steve, not Tony. Even though growing up I liked Tony more than Steve.

They are both heroes but Steve had a point in AOU. Everytime some one tries to prevent a war before it begins, innocent people die, every time. We see that in America now.

[–] Damienracer 8 years ago

Bless your heart.

[–] Damienracer 8 years ago

A third generation wealthy guy can still like Cap but find him annoying as proven I like Cap but I was annoyed by the Bucky situation.

[–] Hassan_Scarborough 8 years ago

The Bucky situation was way over the top for sure.

I was trying to explain to someone else that it was like they were trying to combine original Bucky as a kid Steve was trying to protect and the Winter Soldier angle.

In my experience only parents go that far. Not friends and this tumblr gay nonsense.

[–] Damienracer 8 years ago

Yes they were paralleling the two stages in Bucky and Steve's lives but the gay trolling was on IMDB too.

[–] Hassan_Scarborough 8 years ago

I forgot. As a matter of fact I think I chimed in by trolling I'd rather see Natasha and Wanda together than Bucky and Steve.

[–] Damienracer 8 years ago

I remember lol.

[–] bluehex 8 years ago

Still hung up on this? Well, here it is straight from the horse's (specifically, Joe Russo"s) mouth:

He and Steve have the emotional connection of brothers – even more so because Bucky was all Steve had growing up. Bucky was his protector, and that dynamic shifted when Steve Became Captain America, and now it has shifted again. The Cap-Bucky story is a love story; he can’t let go of his brother.

http://mcuexchange.com/details-on-some-of-the-relationships-in-captain-america-civil-war/

See "surrogate son" anywhere here?

Seriously, you are the only person in existence pushing this idiotic angle. It'll probably help if you remember from time to time that MCU Bucky and comics Bucky are very much NOT the same character.

I'm too old for this sh*t...

[–] Hassan_Scarborough 8 years ago

Bucky was originally a kid in the comics. And son or brother the family connection is there.

I want this gay nonsense to come to an end.

Go on tumblr with your crusade.

[–] bluehex 8 years ago

And where exactly do you see "gay nonsense" in my posts? Maybe you should read them before you respond...

All I am arguing is their relationship is that of brothers - with Bucky being the older one, as stated over and over and over again, by everyone connected to the movies in any way, including Evans and Stan and Russos and every reviewer ever - and not paternal in any way.

And it bothers me when you harp on it, because it is so completely absurd.

It was shown very, very clearly in TFA and later in TWS, that before the war Bucky was the big brother, taking care of Steve in all things ranging from finding his house key, through picking him up from assorted dumpsters, to getting a date (or a chance at one, anyway). He is also more experienced with girls; now, what do you think, which way did the, ehm, worldly knowledge flow in that particular friendship?

Now, once you explained to someone how to kiss a girl and taught him how to, pardon my French, put on a condom (because who else? Not like Steve had a dad who could have The Talk with him), this person will never, ever be a father figure to you. No matter how big or strong they get.

Their dynamic switched from big brother-little brother to more "brothers in arms" type of thing, with Steve a clear leader and Bucky the follower/sidekick, but from that to father figure is a stretch these movies simply do not make.

Once again, maybe you should give the MCU Bucky a different name in your head, or something, because he is NOT - repeat, NOT - the Bucky from comics. MCU wrote the Winter Soldier origins from scratch.

I'm too old for this sh*t...

[–] Hassan_Scarborough 8 years ago

There was a lot of gay post everywhere on every social site. You're a little late to the party.

It's not about you or whatever you are bent out of shape about.

At no time will I ever need someone like you to detail ANY Marvel or DC character.

I know more than you will ever know.

[–] bluehex 8 years ago

There was a lot of gay post everywhere on every social site. You're a little late to the party.

Dude, I am not even AT the party. I am a sworn enemy of any and all kinds of shipping.

So how about you answer the lot of gay post where the lot of gay post is posted, and when you answer me, try to keep it about what I wrote, not what some person I never met wrote on some site I never visit, OK? Makes for an easier and more focused conversation.

It's not about you or whatever you are bent out of shape about.

It is when you answer my posts without even reading them. Or rather, use my posts to answer some random people on some other sites somewhere. A bit inefficient as conversations go, you'll agree.

At no time will I ever need someone like you to detail ANY Marvel or DC character.

Well, if by "someone like me" you mean "someone who watched the movies and paid attention", I'd say you desperately need someone like that.

I know more than you will ever know.

And that is the large part - if not all - of your problem. You are so stuck on previous knowledge that you can't see that what is actually happening before your eyes is very much not the same thing.

I'm too old for this sh*t...

[–] LOTRinger02 8 years ago

So Scarlet Witch can *BEEP* her twin brother and a robot but heaven forbid Steve Rogers be in love with his childhood friend because he's a guy. The world makes perfect sense now. 

I want this gay nonsense to come to an end.

People want homophobia to come to an end too but you are a prime example of why that won't happen.

I do believe you are the one who needs to calm down, Steve and Bucky will NEVER happen in the movies, so who cares if people joke about them being in love (even though they still have a better love story than shoehorning in Sharon and Steve.) No one is moronic enough to think Captain America is hooking up with Bucky Barnes, but people getting bent out of shape over these fictional characters are even bigger morons.

The directors and writers having been playing up on the shipping of Steve and Bucky at least since Winter Soldier. Disney is notorious for gay baiting, sorry but true. So the "gay nonsense" won't be going anywhere. If it gets people in their seats to seat a moment of their favorite pair to interact and feed their fantasies, the studios use that. They care about money not you obsessive fanboys crying.

At no time will I ever need someone like you to detail ANY Marvel or DC character.

I do believe this is your problem. People like you need to stay at home with your precious comics if you don't want to see anything changed in the live action version. Everyone knows Bucky was basically Robin in the comics. In the films, that's not the case. I don't know why that is so hard for you to understand. But whatever, you do you, boo, boo.

~~~~~
Vigorli~Harmony~Thorki~Stucky I SHIP IT!

[–] keekosdoctor 8 years ago

What they said.

Top 10 BS Complaints about the MCU
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyz10UvdMKA

[–] Abraxas88 8 years ago

If he's interested, he could look up Bucky's origin story in the MCU Wiki. It is so different from the comics that everyone should read it. It has a lot of valuable information and gives you a better understanding of his character.

[–] bluehex 8 years ago

He is not interested. He has no reason to be interested. He knows more than we will ever know. 



I'm too old for this sh*t...

[–] Abraxas88 8 years ago

He knows nothing.

[–] Abraxas88 8 years ago

Steve and Bucky are like brothers. Seriously, why is this even questioned?

[–] Hassan_Scarborough 8 years ago

Why does it bother you?

Some older brothers and sisters are like parents to their siblings.

It's not a big deal.

Calling them lovers is crossing the line.

Go complain about that.

[–] Abraxas88 8 years ago

All I'm saying is that Steve's relationship with Bucky is more of a little brother. Steve has always looked up to Bucky's strength and charm while Bucky looked up to Steve's idealism. Neither one was a father figure and there's definitely no amorous intentions between the two.

[–] EaterOfSin 8 years ago

derp

[–] isabel_pink 8 years ago

I haven't seen anyone who hates Captain America in this board but DCfanboys.

Your Statements are not true, they stard by the premise that only mathers money and kindness is something to be loathe or a sign of weakness.

Maybe most of the people are materialistic, but it doesn't mean now black is white and white is black.