Black Widow's fighting pose
That Florence Pugh makes fun of...
Didn't Trinity do it originally in first scene of The Matrix Reloaded?
Matrix Trinity vs BW would be an interesting fight. My money would be on Trinity.
I think they are for different purposes. Carrie-Anne Moss is chosen as Trinity I think because she had martial art background or equivalent training, well, definitely not because her look is more suitable as a love interest.
Scarlett Johansson does not have that, so stunt doubles were heavily used, her poses I think were to emphasize her existence.
Florence Pugh again likely has martial art related training, use of stunts will be reduced, so they no longer need all the poses.
At the time of the Matrix, Carrie-Anne Mosswas was just over 30, but Reloaded was 4 years later, so maybe doubles were used as well.
"Carrie-Anne Moss is chosen as Trinity I think because she had martial art background or equivalent training"
Nope:
https://www.matrixfans.net/interview-with-carrie-anne-moss-trinity-from-1999/
I never knew "karate aerobics" was a thing. But after watching a video about it I think it absolutely helps.
shareOf course. *Any* exercise regimen will help, when doing fight choreography for a movie.
Because, to be absolutely clear: THAT'S what they were doing, in The Matrix. Very, very specific choreography, for a movie. NOT "martial arts." And Moss did Not have a "martial arts background," Or "equivalent training."
Kickboxing aerobics classes at the local Y have little to nothing to do with martial arts.
No, I don't think you really understand this.
In your theory Yoga & gym exercise all will be good enough to help with fight choreography, but it is not the same. Martial artists move differently, if you watch martial art movies or TV shows, especially the ones done by actors with martial art background they move very differently, usually sharp and slick.
Of course the actors they selected for the matrix movie very likely working out regularly and in top physical shape, while doing the matrix I think they went through several months of intensive training, not good enough to fight in UFC, but their moves looked sharp enough for the movie.
There are actors who are also fit and look like working out a lot, but very obviously did not went through any martial arts related training, and their moves showed that. One such actor I noticed is Adam Baldwin, if you have seen him doing any fighting moves in action movies you would know what I mean.
No, I *really* Do understand this. ;)
"In your theory Yoga & gym exercise all will be good enough to help with fight choreography,"
To repeat: ANY physical exercise regimen, taken seriously, will help. How much depends on the individual, their level of commitment, and the particular regimen. This is not a complicated concept.
"Martial artists move differently, if you watch martial art movies or TV shows, especially the ones done by actors with martial art background they move very differently, usually sharp and slick."
I've spent WAY too much time in various gyms/dojos to need to "watch them on TV" to understand how movement works, in various disciplines. And what helps, in learning them. You (apparently) are basing your ideas on what you've Seen, rather than any personal knowledge.
For this particular movie, they got Yuen Woo-Ping (an absolute LEGEND) to work w/the actors for about 4 months.
"Of course the actors they selected for the matrix movie very likely working out regularly and in top physical shape, "
Some were, some weren't. The link I provided you explains a bit of what went on behind the scenes. Keanu in particular was in decent shape, but stepped it up CONSIDERABLY for this movie, and has since become a lifetime practitioner of a couple disciplines.
All of this is fairly well known, and slightly besides the point I was originally correcting you about: Moss was Definitely Not trained in any type of martial arts discipline, prior to filming The Matrix. She wasn't even really taught "martial arts" for the movie. . .it's much more accurate to say she learned choreography that would look good on film. Many of the principles are necessarily the same as you would use in a real fight, but there's a reason you don't see classical "martial artists" in MMA competitions. And what the actors in the film learned through the production process would certainly not qualify them for any belt ceremony, in any discipline I'm aware of.
I did say "equivalent training", didn't I? None of the actors were martial artists going in. And they were not training for UFC.
"karate aerobics" helps her movements, and that is a good enough start for the fight choreography.
You are just being technical on what can be called martial arts related. I am not so anal about it.
"I did say "equivalent training", didn't I?"
Yes you did. Which is WRONG. Equating "karate aerobics" with any kind of real martial arts training is ridiculous. Rather than absorbing this, you seem to want to triple down on your error. Shrug.
"None of the actors were martial artists going in."
Correct. This is what I initially explained to you, in my first response. See, you're getting there!
""karate aerobics" helps her movements, and that is a good enough start for the fight choreography."
No. It helps her *conditioning*, which is an Entirely Different Thing. In fact, those types of classes typically teach you movements that are Exactly Wrong. . .they're designed for aerobic benefit, rather than effectiveness in a fight.
A specific example for you, since I'm bored:
My local gym used to teach a "kickboxing aerobics" class, when they were hugely popular. I was dating the instructor at the time, and watched a couple classes. Afterwards, I immediately pointed out a couple of errors in form, and explained that, while there was a short-term physical fitness benefit, if people repeated a kick incorrectly thousands of times, it would wreak HAVOC on their joints. Sure enough, that's exactly what happened, years later (two hip replacements).
"You are just being technical on what can be called martial arts related. I am not so anal about it."
No. . .I'm just trying to (gently) correct you with some basic facts. You're the one stubbornly trying to somehow be "right." You're not. Own it.
The entire argument here is about whether "karate aerobics" helps Carrie-Anne Moss with fight choreography so she does not have to use stunt doubles.
You are the one turned it into something else. Like I said:"anal".
Nice try. There's no "argument" here. . .I corrected you when you claimed she had "martial arts or equivalent training." You're unable to admit you were wrong. Then you doubled, tripled, and Quadrupled down on your error (She DOES have stunt doubles!!!)
Your behavior is Not unusual, on message boards. You can go now (you're embarrassing yourself).