I call plagarism pure and simple. - The Hateful Eight (2015) Discussion

[–] digital_generation_x 9 years ago

I've loved everything Tarantino has done. Having said that... Hateful 8 has been my least favorite venture of his, so this is just the cherry on top of this big disappointment.

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[–] MidnightThud 9 years ago

I really liked this film lol till last night when this TV ep was drawn to my attention.

My jaw literally dropped after 5 minutes. Normally it's all.... oh these two films are set in a bank or... both heroes have 2 broken marriages etc...... this time. man oh man its just totally lifted aside from the ending.

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[–] Don_Cheech 9 years ago

"There's a difference between imitation- and emulation. Check your lawyer" - Stephen Colbert

QT is paying homage. Bringing that type of storytelling back to life. Its not a bad thing. He does it in all of his films actually.

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[–] paxtonaddleman 9 years ago

The difference is that when it is an homage, the writer says so -
QT has not given credit to The Rebel at all.

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[–] TaRaNRoD (1579) 8 years ago

He openly says that his movies are rip offs. I don't know what is it you are complaining about... He did say that Hateful 8 is Django Unchained, Reservoir Dogs and The Thing.

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[–] xthe_shiznitx 9 years ago

i loved the film, have never seen this TV episode or show you are referring to, so am happy that quentin made this movie as an "homage" or down right plagiarized the content, either way i got to experience a modern retelling of a very entertaining story.

plagiarism of old media that newer generations wont ever know about unless a friend or family member tell them to watch said media is something that i personally agree with to an extent, because how else would modern generations get to experience the older media that is frankly out-dated quite often. i mean i wouldnt have fully appreciated the original True Grit with john wayne if i didnt see the modern remake that wasnt "as good" in my opinion.

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[–] MidnightThud 9 years ago

Oh its been happening forever. Ridley Scott for example combining It! Terror from Beyond Sapce and Planet of the Vampires for Aliens... then claiming he didn't know of them! Day of the Dead taking huge chunks from Invisible Invaders.

The problem is that you cant hide or pretend anymore because of the net and sites like You Tube. This was not a cobbled together series of Homages like kill Bill though. Watch the link.... its a straight remake.

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[–] Elder_Yautija 9 years ago

"Ridley Scott for example combining It! Terror from Beyond Sapce and Planet of the Vampires for Aliens... then claiming he didn't know of them!"

But he truly didn't! He didn't write the script, Dan O'Bannon did. Dan is the one who used those films's premises for his own script, and never told Scott.

Anyway, Alien ended up being its own film, whereas Hateful 8 is an already exixting film that Tarantino somehow just forgot to mention he'd remake. I guess he wanted people to think he came up with the story himself, not wanting them to go back and find out that they might actually like the original better.

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[–] oldewill 9 years ago

" whereas Hateful 8 is an already exixting film that Tarantino somehow just forgot to mention he'd remake. I guess he wanted people to think he came up with the story himself, not wanting them to go back and find out that they might actually like the original better."

TRUE TRUE TRUE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=r7JdfWfoKls .

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[–] Kompressor_Fan 9 years ago

plagiarism of old media that newer generations wont ever know about unless a friend or family member tell them to watch said media is something that i personally agree with to an extent....

Actually, it's as low as you can go as a writer. All you have to do is give them credit....."based upon..." or "inspired by." QT is a big boy and he's been around long enough to know this is a really scummy trick....especially when you like to go on and on in the press about how you consider yourself the best writer and director in Hollywood (and then outright steal the material of a dead writer of an obscure serial because you assume it's buried deep enough that nobody will discover it.)

 The bad news is you have houseguests. There is no good news. 

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[–] xthe_shiznitx 9 years ago

and i personally thank him for doing such a "really scummy trick"
because i have been able to see stories that i wouldnt have been able to without directors and screen-writers doing said scummy trick.

is it frankly dishonest, cheap, disrespectful? probably. does it allow newer generations to experience old stories that they wouldnt even realize existed otherwise? DEFINITELY.

so i thank directors like quentin and screen writers that do this.

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[–] MidnightThud 9 years ago

Fine - then give credit. you don't bang on about how you've been running this story in your head for years etc etc etc.

it's like the fraud long sampling is in music most of the time. lifting a 70's song, adding a few seconds of techno beat and a drop, does not make it your song.

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[–] sheetsadam1 9 years ago

Tarantino has said that he based the film on western TV shows, especially "bottle episodes" featuring a few guest stars. There were a ton of westerns on TV in the '50s and '60s and a lot of them were in reruns for many years after they ended. Some still are. It's entirely possible that he saw this episode as a kid and forgot about it and yet the story stayed in his subconscious. Or maybe he does remember it, but doesn't remember which of the many western series it was part of. Perhaps that's why he hasn't been specific as to which western series inspired it. Besides, the plot isn't that original and wouldn't have been even then.

Plotting has never been Tarantino's biggest strength. His most compelling film from a plot standpoint was Jackie Brown, which was based on an Elmore Leonard novel. We remember the plots of Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction only because of the nonlinear format. The ending to Inglourious Basterds may be the first truly original plot element he's ever came up. What he is great at is characterization and dialogue. So long as he keeps delivering that I don't care what plot he hangs them on or where he finds it.

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[–] MidnightThud 9 years ago

Watch the episode. He remade the dammed thing. This is way beyond a composite of old TV show tropes.

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[–] waneagony 9 years ago

Watch the episode. He remade the dammed thing. This is way beyond a composite of old TV show tropes.

I took the time to watch the Rebel episode - and I second this.

“It has been my philosophy of life that difficulties vanish when faced boldly.”
― Isaac Asimov

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] MikeO_64 9 years ago

It's entirely possible that he saw this episode as a kid and forgot about it and yet the story stayed in his subconscious. Or maybe he does remember it, but doesn't remember which of the many western series it was part of.

>>>yeah, like Jimmy Page "didn't remember" where the riffs came from.

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[–] lackery 9 years ago

"What he is great at is characterization and dialogue.So long as he keeps delivering that I don't care what plot he hangs them on or where he finds it."

Basically in a nutshell...that's why we keep coming back.

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[–] Niceguy 9 years ago

It's actually quite sad you think that way, xthe_shiznitx - you should call it for what it is instead of trying to find the good in it. Plagiarism is NEVER a good thing.

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[–] xthe_shiznitx 9 years ago

you are an idiot. you miss my entire point.
i would never nor would millions of people even know anything about this so called plagiarized material if it were not for this movie and many other modern movies. hence they have become the new standard of that story, if anyone wants to view the original go the F#ck ahead, otherwise stfu.

i dont care if it is plagiarized as long as it is entertaining and modern. only elitist idiot c#nts care about pointless *beep* like that. hell the people who made the original are all old or dead, who probably dont give much of a *beep* about it anyway.

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[–] bcjester 9 years ago

i dont care if it is plagiarized as long as it is entertaining and modern. only elitist idiot c#nts care about pointless *beep* like that.

This is inaccurate. Plagiarism in and of itself is completely, and outright illegal. It's not "elitist" that care about it. It's a law.

i would never nor would millions of people even know anything about this so called plagiarized material if it were not for this movie and many other modern movies. hence they have become the new standard of that story, if anyone wants to view the original go the F#ck ahead, otherwise stfu.

Again inaccurate. There are people who wouldn't know of it of course, but there are obviously people who do as well. Putting yourself in the higher percentage is just pure bias and not an objective view at all.

Also....why do you seem so angry?

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[–] Kompressor_Fan 9 years ago

Also....why do you seem so angry?

He's probably QT trolling from a sockpuppet account.

 The bad news is you have houseguests. There is no good news. 

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[–] BigDDD 9 years ago

The Tarantino fanboy will either pretend this thread doesn't exist or that it's a "homage".

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[–] BebeJumeau 9 years ago

He's probably QT trolling from a sockpuppet account.

if only .... now that would be fun

I also wonder if he is on TV Tropes via a sockpuppet as the leader of the virulent anti-Daisy posse that has taken over those pages

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[–] xthe_shiznitx 9 years ago

no you are inaccurate, plagiarism was made illegal by elitists... just because something is made into a law does not mean it should be, case in point slavery was legal at one point... F#ckin idiot twat.

how did i ever say i was the higher percentage? oh thats right i didnt. i just said a general number of "millions of people", how did you manage to misread that as "Majority percentage of said statistical group", oh thats right you wouldnt have a point if you didnt misread that.

hence you are the inaccurate one. dumbass.

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[–] oldewill 9 years ago

Your comparing "Sampling"/Plagiarism :the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.
To "Slavery": someone who is legally owned by another person and is forced to work for that person without pay, ????????
xthe_shiznitx You are without a doubt the DUMBASS/F#ckin idiot twat.

http://youtu.be/iDiwoKOD8hA .
http://youtu.be/9WNPorqIyD8 .

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[–] oldewill 9 years ago

BUMP

http://youtu.be/iDiwoKOD8hA .
http://youtu.be/9WNPorqIyD8 .

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[–] xthe_shiznitx 9 years ago

I C what u did there. completely derisive comment used to ignore my very logical point in order to distract and confuse others so that you dont look like a complete fool.

my point still stands, just because it is an extreme example doesnt mean it isnt a valid example.

your move sh!t stain...

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[–] oldewill 9 years ago

"your move sh!t stain." LOL
This makes no sense
"just because something is made into a law does not mean it should be, case in point slavery was legal at one point."
So what your say'n is slavery should be legal..
"just because something is made into a law does not mean it should be"

http://https://youtu.be/r7J .
http://youtu.be/9WNPorqIyD8 .

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[–] xthe_shiznitx 9 years ago

youre an idiot. makes perfect sense if you were intelligent enough to realize it.
how did you get slavery should be legal from what i said? /facepalm @ your idiocy!

LoL! you cannot seriously be that stupid, you are able to type mostly legibly, therefore you cant be that retarded.

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[–] milesaheadlds 9 years ago

Totally agree, oldewill - the guy's a moron.

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[–] bcjester 9 years ago

no you are inaccurate, plagiarism was made illegal by elitists... just because something is made into a law does not mean it should be, case in point slavery was legal at one point... F#ckin idiot twat.

Doesn't matter who made it illegal. It's still illegal.
I'm still accurate.

how did i ever say i was the higher percentage? oh thats right i didnt. i just said a general number of "millions of people", how did you manage to misread that as "Majority percentage of said statistical group", oh thats right you wouldnt have a point if you didnt misread that.

hence you are the inaccurate one. dumbass.

There is really nothing to argue here, you didn't seem to grasp what I was saying. You not only gave a false percentage but you included your opinion in the percentage which means you, yourself are part of this make shift "higher percentage"(Millions of people is a % of people sir)

Look I get that you're angry and trying to defend something you love, but doing it in this way is rather silly.

You should take a breath, take a few steps back and think of a better way to support this movie instead of raging at everyone who disagree's with you.

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[–] xthe_shiznitx 9 years ago

wow... you might be insane. you have completely ignored what i said and continued with your idiotic "higher percentage" nonsense, even though i explained everything you have commented about.

amazing how crazy and possibly retarded you might be, yet dont realize.

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[–] bcjester 9 years ago

At the very least you've been entertaining. I still think you should take a step back,breath,calm down and then speak on some level of maturity.

You seem very passionate about this. While that passion is arguably misplaced. I'm not going to try and have a conversation with you if all you contribute to it is insults.

So. Ill ask you this: what point is it that you think I am missing? Id you can clearly state it without an insult or angry ravings I will admit I'm wrong (if I agree that I am)

By the way what you're saying ow is called a "catch 22"
An insane person wouldn't know they were insane to tell anyone. Much like a mentally handicapped person would not proclaim to be so.

Its also a good book. You might like it if you enjoy AT work as much as you seem to.
^this is called being civil.

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[–] xthe_shiznitx 9 years ago

and again you say some inane bullsh!t completely sidetracking the point. you sir are pathetic.

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[–] bcjester 9 years ago

So. Ill ask you this: what point is it that you think I am missing? Ifyou can clearly state it without an insult or angry ravings I will admit I'm wrong (if I agree that I am)

My insanity knows no bounds!

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[–] xthe_shiznitx 9 years ago

indeed.

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[–] filmklassik (51) 6 years ago

You’re trolling now, right? You can’t honestly believe all the stuff you’re saying here (“Who cares if it’s plagiarism or not? The people he stole from are either very old or dead, and modern people only care about NOW,” etc) — do you really believe this stuff?

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[–] Metatron_Fallen 9 years ago

It's not "elitist" that care about it. It's a law.

Exactly. I have never actually heard anyone defending plagiarism before- like in my whole life. It's sort of shocking to be honest.

I mean, what if I just decided to write a story about an old Chevy Nova that was possessed and drove around killing people by itself. Do I think Stephen King and his lawyers would give me a break because I was bringing some old story to a new generation?

Somehow, I don't think so.

I haven't seen this other episode that the OP mentions.

However, I write myself and I know I'd probably kill someone if they stole one of my stories and went off and made money with it. What matters to me the most is that QT puts 'written and directed by (himself)' at the end of this film.

There are rules for this, not only in Hollywood and in the film industry but in the writing world at large. It's just not done.

If you're basing your film on a novel, play, story idea from someone or any other source, you should give that work credit.

Maybe among a generation which doesn't have any qualms about illegally downloading films a lot of people don't realize any longer why plagiarism is wrong.

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[–] TaRaNRoD (1579) 8 years ago

Tbh, you are the one who seems butthurt.

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[–] kya1 9 years ago

I am not sure how widely this has been mentioned in the U.S (aussie here) but this time I call sheer plagiarism. Its from the TV serial The Rebel from the late 50's.

Interesting, I must check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAIJ3Rh5Qxs

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[–] eagleye_25 9 years ago

I've seen "Fair Game", The Rebel episode to which you're referring, and yes, it's pretty much taken directly.

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[–] Erick_Till 9 years ago

After I saw the episode 25, I agree 100%. This is not a homage, is Pure plagiarism. (Thanks for the link)
Almost all the movie takes place inside the house, There's even a scene with a chicken. The prisoner, however, is more charming :)
In a certain part of the movie, I remembered François Ozon's 8 Femmes.

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[–] beautifulbarbiegirl 9 years ago

Tarantino is the biggest plagiarist of all time. I laughed when they gave him a best ORIGINAL screenplay oscar. He could still cover his lack of originality with his energy and the his fresh charecters, however, now that his three last films were all dissapointing to say the least, people realized he is an overrated turd

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[–] TaRaNRoD (1579) 8 years ago

Yeah because Death Proof just before that was way better...

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] Tri0xin 9 years ago

I really enjoy QT's movies and consider myself a fan. Having said that, he definitely boosted The Hateful Eight from that episode of The Rebel. I just finished watching it on youtube and there is no denying it.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

This is pretty fascinating to me.

There are clearly a LOT of plot elements shared by The Hateful Eight and that Rebel episode, and thanks to the millions of people on the internet -- any one of whom could have found this Rebel episode and ratted QT out, and somebody did -- now we know.

And yet, all these years later, and:

ONE: No interviewer has ever called QT out on this (and right now, he's promoting "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood," so he is out and about.)

TWO: QT hasn't volunteered any information on how/when he saw The Rebel episode.

THREE: If any "legal settlement cash" has passed to whoever owns The Rebel from Weinstein Company(or whoever has Weinstein Company legal status now)...it has not been reported.

In short..its as if this "lift" from The Rebel has disappeared into the unknown...nobody cares.

For all of that, I'm willing to express the following: assuming that somewhere, somehow, that Rebel episode gets its due ("Based on a story by"....) so much of The Hateful Eight does NOT follow this episode that I still think QT spun gold from mediocre dross. (At a minimum, the Rebel episode has no substitute for Jackson's description of what he did to Bruce Dern's son. Though I'm not sure that part IS gold. But other parts are.)

Now, QT DID confess that he borrowed one line from an episode of The Virginian:

"Four measly bullets, and that's the end of Mexican Bob" (changes to name and number of bullets.)"

My feeling here is that QT, watching all these old series that we do not want to watch, is "mining" the history of obscure TV and movies for what nuggets he can, and inserting them into his overall storytelling. I'm OK with that...there's no real historical precedent for it, but...why not? Its a good line. And as a legal matter, I don't think QT really has to pay anybody for one line from a long-ago Western episode.

Key: enough of the OTHER lines in The Hateful Eight -- scores of them, HUNDREDS of them -- ARE of QTs invention.

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