Gunfights are suprisingly protracted in mexico due to most of the fighters being ex military. Those fights seem more like battles compared to the quick hit and run drivebys or walkups you see in the US.
If you have to use more than 1 mag, whether AR or single-stack CC pistol, either you are doing something wrong or major shit is going down.
This is a pretty smug thing to say and I suspect you've never been in a gun fight. I'm not bragging but I have been forced to defend my self with a firearm and no I didn't fire or draw first. During the opening salvo the attacker always has the advantage (Most likely not you if your the good guy) so your forced to return rapid supressing fire to force the threat to retreat so you your self can have time to find cover. Your then forgetting things like being in a moving vehical being forced to defend your self with one hand on the steering wheel and one hand returning fire, and your also neglecting to take into consideration were you have more then one attacker comming after you. In general if your dealing with more then one attacker (Criminals are cowards and can't be expected to attack alone) who have engaged you before you could even legally assume they are a threat forcing you to draw second and your being chased you shouldn't be overly concerned about using just one Magazine cause some asshole on the internet thinks your doing it wrong. I'm been in that situation and I know your best bet at that point is to rapid fire on your suspects to force them to retreat. Cops don't conserve bullets just look at how fast they fire on a threat.
My defensive position is I carry:
1) 9mm CC gun (I may get a smaller back up gun later)
1) 15 round mag
3) a green laser sight (Since I'm not the one starting the fight I may not always be able to
get the gun to eye level in time.
4) An 800 lumen tac light (The attack will almost certainly come at night and the blinding effect of the light will give you a slight advantage by making you a harder target to aim at.
5) A 31 round extended magazine (For those situations where that 15 round mag wasn't enough
and conserving rounds are a lesser concern then staying alive.
I survived a car jacking due to the precautions I took above. And my attacker was persistent in that this conflict resulted in a 12 block chase. Texas law says you can't fire on some one if they are fleeing so I stopped returning fire when they fled only for them to return 20 seconds later which resulted in the 12 block car chase. From a defensive perspective letting them go and not killing them seemed like a mistake from a hindsight perspective but violating the law should not be considered "doing it wrong". That 31 round magazine really came in handy as I was being rammed and fired on by an enraged failed car jacker. Until your in a fight for your life like I was I woulden't be so judgemental about how many rounds you needed to fire when fighting for your life.
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jasonbourne033 (105)
6 years ago
Nice to see another EDC gun-owner here, I think we all are from more or less the same walk of life, we are all prepared to do whatever is needed in defense of those around us, and we are all Duty-oriented Assholes so there is no need to lose our minds over minor disagreements over each man's Tactics techniques & Procedures.
It All depends on the threat(s)'s own mindset and training. For instance that pattern in the engagement you described, is very common. Threat leaves and then returns. The stress and the (I'm getting shot at) instinct proves to be too much for them until rage or persistence causes them to re-engage.
That why Special Forces engagements tend to be over very rapidly (very highly trained vs. well-trained to not trained at all). That was also the general gist of the comment I made, it's actually not a statement I constructed myself, it's actually somewhat well-known. Special Forces SOP for example is to engage with your rifle, if you run through your mag and the threat(s) is more than 20 or so meters from you, reload by muscle memory. If you are at less than 20 meters you drop the rifle and draw your sidearm, which is in condition 1, and keep firing whereupon if you again run out of ammo you reload the pistol again as it is faster to reload than your rifle.
The general idea is not to "conserve bullets" but to minimize the amount of time you are not able to neutralize threats. Hence the truth oF my statement, if you are in close quarters with armed threat(s) and your firearms ceases to expunge bullets with fire and fury you are not having a good day whatsoever. It’s that few seconds it takes to reload and do the manual of arms, however fast I may be, that makes the use of more than 1 mag tenuous (IN SOME SITUATIONS, especially against trained assaulters). In your situation for instance you had 20 seconds to load that extended mag and re-establish situational awareness. Real life is not like the movies.
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crc32 (2584)
6 years ago
[quote]In your situation for instance you had 20 seconds to load that extended mag and re-establish situational awareness. Real life is not like the movies.[/quopte]
In actuality I had already been rammed into a high curb and it seemed like my vehical was stuck when I got out of my car I saw my attackers head lights aiming at me as they had just spun around and where coming at me. I didn't wait for my gun to be at eye level I just fired in their direction as I was again wide open and stranded they turned at the sight of gun fire and drove down the side street. they ran down the other street. To this day I don't know if my gun jammed or I ran out of ammo cause it felt like my gun locked open and I didn't check the chamber as I was too busy dropping the mag while grabbing the extended magazine from my left side pocket. By the time I racked the gun they were down the other street from the intersection. I figure they didn't get a chance to see that I was reloaded cause they were already out of site by the time I racked the slide. I got back in my car and forced it off the curb and began heading south. My vehical had a flat and they must have thought I was empty as they quickly caught up to me and started trying to ram me off the road again. I pulled to the left lane and I could see them moving to the right lane to pass me. I slammed my breaks while fireing out my blind spot waiting for them to pass in front of my bullets. I remember seeing their hood and what I though was the dark drivers window when I must have hit something and flipped over to my side. Their car apparently lost controll and they swirved right and hight a high concrete wall. Witness say they saw the attackers run down the alley I suspect I hit somebody in an appendage cause the cops say they think they had a suspect as they got a report of a gunshot wounded pateint that was in the hospital but the patient was refusing to talk to the police and initially reported they were hit by stray bullet then refused to say more.
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crc32 (2584)
6 years ago
Their vehical was registerd to some one in Eagle pass texas right next to the border. I'm pretty sure they are late generation hispanic cause when they were yelling and cussing at me I didn't pick up a spanish accent. But then the car they were in was apparently reported as stolen but I'm guessing that was a fabrication so they could avoid picking up a charge or maybe it really was stolen who knows, cause they were definitly trying to steal my car. This happened in 2016 San Antonios most dangours year since 1995. And I'll admit I was in a really bad area but the area wasn't that bad just 3 years prior I don't understand what happened to it.
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jasonbourne033 (105)
6 years ago
(Continued)
However it does not mean you should not use as many magazines as you need, training is what matters to be able to make that count and of course a lot depends on the situation, again: major shit may happen. I for example carry 3 extra mags with my S&W Shield, because I do prefer single-stack for CC, and sometimes a second handgun. I do not use tactical light/laser on the gun as I do feel it Interfere s with use but I do carry one separately with the rest of my EDC.
I do have light and laser on the full-size handgun (P226) in my vehicle. I have engaged from and around moving and stopped vehicles but I cannot say I have done it while driving a moving vehicle, that was something. Especially in texas. One would think no one would be stupid enough to attempt carjacking in texas.
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crc32 (2584)
6 years ago
It was the classic creep up on a victim at a stop light or stop sign then pull infront of them with the guy in the passenger seat with his gun out. He then proceeds to order you out of his car so he can drive off while a key is still in the ignition and his partner in the original car just hauls ass out of there. I had my gun in my lap and all I could think of was whats this idiot gonna due when he realizes I have my gun out. The guy had his gun out but haden't pointed it at me yet. He dropped the gun and had his hands up when I draw on him. The driver then speed off. I was in shock and I could hear them apparently fireing in the air from a few blocks away. I turned around and went down another street heading to the highway. I figure they traveled north then east then south as I was headning north on the street adjacent to the one they fled north on. I wasn't expecting them but I saw headlights ram my vehical from the front which is when I began fireing at them but my vehical was too out of control to get a good fix on them. The hard part is trying to stay in control of the vehical lookiing forward while trying not to loose the position of your attacker, Left hand on the wheel right hand on the firearm. I got hit a few times before I was knocked into a high curb. I carry the extended round in my left pocket as its hard to have a cc firearm with the giant mag sticking out of your gun. Your right though I always imaginged a gunfight would be frantic and panic driven but it was suprisingly nonchalant as it was determination to finish the bad guy rather then panic fire that lead me to magdump on the driver. It almost felt like I was setting a trap by pulling to the left and waiting for them to get in my line of fire out my blind spot. But it wasn't a sinister trap though I knew these assholes had no intention of letting me go. nobody won the fight though as both vehicals were totaled and they ran away on foot into an alley while I had to wait for the police.
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crc32 (2584)
6 years ago
Why do you favor a single stack? I you concerned it will jam? I am thinking of getting a glock 26 as the glock 19 is pretty bulky as a pocket carry. and I figure the extended mag will still fit in the 26 if I needed it to. I still want an ankle backup gun it my main fun ever jams in a firefight. I get creeped out that once in a bluemoon that I get a jam when racking my gun at the range.
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crc32 (2584)
6 years ago
I'm not a stunt driver. My attackers clearly could maneuver better then I could. Due to tunnel vision (a big detriment to gun fighting) all I could focus on was the passenger gunmen so I have no idea if I was just dealing with one car and I had a hard time reaquiring the target. I spent a lot of time just trying to maintain control of my moving vehical they had a driver and a shooter so they had all the advantage. For a few seconds I wasn't expecting to survive I was just trying to not get killed empty handed I wanted to at least leave a one of them dead with a gun cause I knew if I got killed empty handed they would just make up a story and make it seem like I attacked them. There is no honer amound criminals. Or even law enforcement. Even though the bad guys fled and the car they attacked from was later reported stolen I still have a greedy detective that wants to arrest everyone involved even though its clear I was the one attacked. The bad guys are smart enough not to talk to the detective but I wasn't and the detective wanted to charge me with reckless endangerment, discharging a firearm in the city limits and unjustified deadly conduct, but I'm guessing he coulden't find a prosecutor to cooperate with him. If the bad guys made up a lie about me we'd both be in jail now. Due to the greedy detectives stance non of us our. My lawyer told me to not talk to the detective not even to ID the attackers in a line up as he told me the detective didn't care about who's innocent he's just wants to make arrests and let the courts sort it out. The justice system is messed up, I can't tell my story so we both walk free.
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