MovieChat Forums > Soaked in Bleach (2015) Discussion > Extremely Intriguing Conspiracy Theory B...

Extremely Intriguing Conspiracy Theory But...

posted 9 years ago by Melissaslist
33 replies | jump to latest

Watched this and thought hmmm, that's interesting. Does seem a bit sketchy. Most of all the lethal heroine dose followed by the self inflicted gunshot. Also the note seemed bizarre and not at all what a suicide note would look like.

I've not used heroine but from what little I know of it (mainly from movies like trainspotting...) shooting up will product extreme and immediate euphoria soooo it would seem logically improbable that under a state of extreme pleasure and euphoria you would pick up a rifle and blow your head off. Maybe after the drug wore Off but not during the high. If what was said in the movie was true the amount of heroine would have killed him even if he hadn't shot himself so his death was pretty much a foregone conclusion so he would not have had the time for the high to wear off. Plus from my amateur knowledge of heroine use it would render a person so doped up and relaxed that maneuvering a shotgun in this state of mind would be quite difficult if not impossible.

It definitely makes an interesting story even if it's completely bogus. IS it impossible to shoot yourself after injecting a large dose of heroine? I have no idea.

I'd also say that despite some of his friends testaments that he was NOT suicidal or would never do such a thing if you do simply look at his song lyrics "I hate myself and want to die"it's not really a huge leap to imagine that he was very depressed or deeply unhappy. Maybe they were JUST lyrics and did not mean anything, but if you're going to question the facts surrounding his death you can't ignore the morose lyrics to his songs.

I think like 9-11 conspiracies some of these are extremely compelling and can really draw you in leave you with more questions than answers.

Cobain has been gone now more than 20 years. Hard to believe. I think like other high profile deaths in this world it's unlikely we will ever know exactly what happened conclusively. The only people who know for certain are those directly involved.

[–] BingoFlip20943 9 years ago

I Hate Myself and I Want to Die was "as literal as a joke can be" (Kurt's words). They changed it because they were afraid people wouldn't get the joke.

[–] ljshorts 9 years ago

and most people still don't get it...

[–] Sly_Vaping_Guy 9 years ago

"I hate myself and want to die" was meant as a joke. Kurt knew that not many people would appreciate that kind of dark humor.

[–] Melissaslist 9 years ago

maybe so. That's what I've heard/read too, but what is the joke? What makes that funny? That it's ironic? That he really loves himself and wants to live? His lyrics were dark and perhaps some of this was irony one would have to wonder/imagine where that begins and ends. If a parent saw this on their kids notebook they'd probably be pretty alarmed. If the parent confronted the kid perhaps the kid would say "cmonnnn, you know I'm only joking". But how is that funny?

[–] BingoFlip20943 9 years ago

"[The title was] as literal as a joke can be. Nothing more than a joke. And that had a bit to do with why we decided to take it off. We knew people wouldn’t get it; they’d take it too seriously. It was totally satirical, making fun of ourselves. I’m thought of as this pissy, complaining, freaked-out schizophrenic who wants to kill himself all the time. 'He isn’t satisfied with anything.' And I thought it was a funny title. I wanted it to be the title of the album for a long time. But I knew the majority of the people wouldn’t understand it."

[–] arkraider85 9 years ago

"[The title was] as literal as a joke can be. Nothing more than a joke. And that had a bit to do with why we decided to take it off. We knew people wouldn’t get it; they’d take it too seriously. It was totally satirical, making fun of ourselves. I’m thought of as this pissy, complaining, freaked-out schizophrenic who wants to kill himself all the time. 'He isn’t satisfied with anything.' And I thought it was a funny title. I wanted it to be the title of the album for a long time. But I knew the majority of the people wouldn’t understand it."

No, no, Kurt, you're wrong—Courtney only made up the public perception that you were ever suicidal after you died. She clearly went back in time and held a gun to your head to make you say that.

[–] BingoFlip20943 9 years ago

Very good point.

[–] Sly_Vaping_Guy 9 years ago

Kurt was talking about what THE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T KNOW HIM OR FOLLOW HIS MUSIC THOUGHT OF HIM. Courtney was in fact the only one who went on a tirade trying to make him appear to have been suicidal the entire time.

[–] BingoFlip20943 9 years ago

Krist thinks it was suicide and feels that when someone commits suicide it's human nature to not believe it and come up with conspiracy theories. In Montage of Heck he says that looking back, there were signs he should have picked up on. In Kurt and Courtney his aunt says she never believed the murder theories because she found a poem he wrote called Seaside Suicise and it was fairly obvious it was something he thought about or tried.

[–] Sly_Vaping_Guy 9 years ago

Krist thinks it was suicide and feels that when someone commits suicide it's human nature to not believe it and come up with conspiracy theories. In Montage of Heck he says that looking back, there were signs he should have picked up on. In Kurt and Courtney his aunt says she never believed the murder theories because she found a poem he wrote called Seaside Suicise and it was fairly obvious it was something he thought about or tried.

Yes, Krist thought after Kurt died that it was a suicide. However, Kurt broke off his friendship with Krist over fights with money and assorted other issues. Krist was out of touch with Kurt. That's why Krist is not considered to be Kurt's best friend. At one time he was, back in the day, but not at the time of Kurt's death.

The only member of Kurt's family that Kurt was close to was his grandfather. His grandfather said that Kurt was not suicidal and he believes he was murdered.

[–] Melissaslist 9 years ago

You know I was so intrigued by these theories that I had to learn more and more and became a bit of an obsession. Everything I saw and heard was pointing to murder. But talk about motives? Ok so surely Courtney might have a financial motive, but what about the motives of publishers, media, private investigators...? Isn't the idea that it was murder juicy enough to squeeze it for every penny it could generate? Even if those who wrote books on this topic did or didn't believe it there was foul play they had definite motive to play that angle up.

After watching all the conspiracies that really convinced ME this was murder too I then watched one last thing that convinced me otherwise. It was "the last 48 hours" of Kurt Cobain. There were several accounts by many people; friends, family members, witnesses...who said that on his last days he was indeed quite depressed and very low. He also left a rehab where he was trying to get clean but couldn't. Despite how bad Heroine addiction IS it was a coping mechanism. Trying to give this up and feeling conflicted about this and feeling like you failed giving this up and the potential consequences; losing access to your child...might be enough to make you want to give up.

Also despite all the "irony" of his lyrics "I hate myself and want to die" among other somber lyrics one might say well that doesn't really mean anything. They're just song lyrics. But are they? Isn't art an expression of the way someone feels? If your expression is sadness, anger and self hatred isn't that enough to at least fuel suicide or thought of it? I don't know. It seems it looks like a duck and walks like a duck. He was a depressed Junkie trying to get off heroine, probably the one thing that gave him real comfort or release and could not. I think it's just quite probable that there was no conspiracy. He was just done.

[–] Sly_Vaping_Guy 9 years ago

Everyone at the rehab said Kurt looked great and was upbeat. Nobody thought he was suicidal before he died.

Please actually do real research. I know there is a lot of b.s. floating around out there but most of this stuff is in the public domain. Kurt gave interviews shortly before his death where he said he was the happiest he had ever been his whole life. All this talk of him being suicidal comes from Courtney Love.

[–] Melissaslist 9 years ago

Touche!

You know I don't know. It's like any other high profile death. Lots of questions. I'm not 100% convinced either way. As I said before; to me the suicide note was the fishiest of all because it did not in any way resemble someone wanting to end their life. It seemed like something that had been written in the past, perhaps a draft of a song lyric... who knows how distant and cobbled together? From someone who had a lot of angst in their own life and written a lot of depressing as hell *beep* what he wrote in no way resembled this.

You could definitely look at this from two distinct points of view and see it very differently. But you'll be looking with blinders on. One point ONLY sees how suspicious things are and the other seeing only how clear and obvious it would be that he'd do himself in.

Like all of these untimely deaths it would be INCREDIBLE if there were someone out there, some independent agency that could shed light on EXACTLY happened to Cobain, Bobby Christina, Nicole Brown Simpson, Marilyn Monroe...

[–] sumtim3s00n 9 years ago

Yea, thats why he escaped, he was feeling so wonderful he wanted to share his happiness with the rest of the world. Or do you believe Courtney kidnapped him in the middle of the night, ninja style :O . Anything is possible right?

[–] Sly_Vaping_Guy 9 years ago

Escaped? It's not like he was there against his will. He could leave at any time. The only reason why he was there is because Courtney threatened to make sure he never saw Frances again if he didn't go. He must of changed his mind. We know Kurt left and we know that he left a message for Courtney giving her this message, "Elizabeth's phone number is 253-(censored). So the natural assumption is that this is a number she could contact him. Yet Courtney never tells the police this. She lies and claims she hasn't heard from him at all since he "disappeared" from rehab.

[–] Melissaslist 9 years ago

Honestly a lot of *beep* goes down with relationships, people try to control, manipulate, blackmail and and threaten each other and add lots of money and a baby fugghettabout it. People use this to to their greatest advantage and it can destroy people's lives.

There are lots of holes in the official story for sure (pun intended). If the whole premise of Courtney's story was that he'd disappeared and she had no way to reach him even though she was given a number....

[–] Melissaslist 9 years ago

[–] Sly_Vaping_Guy 9 years ago

Yes, and she didn't tell the cops that he was at the house when she knew he was there. She sent Tom Grant on a goose chase away from the home. Phone records prove that there were phone calls from the Seattle home to Courtney's hotel room yet Courtney claims at no time did Cali, the male nanny, tell her that Kurt arrived at the house. She only accidentally let it slip that Cali saw Kurt at the Seattle home and that' when Grant decided to go to Seattle to search the house. Kurt was never missing. Courtney knew where he was the entire time.

The electricians are the most damning, as far as I'm concerned. She hired them specifically to work on the greenhouse. She flat out hired them to discover the body.

[–] sumtim3s00n 9 years ago

Of course he was there against his will, he didnt want to go, you can twist it all you want and play with semantics but he was there against his will. And Courtney threatened him? A junky another junky? Perhaps she said it but the core of it was he was suicidal and dark lately and everyone was worried about him. And its very interesting how when someone actually took the time and negated all your conspiary lunacy(the arkraider thread), you curiously havent responded there. At least with something argumentative and worthwhile. I wonder why.

[–] Sly_Vaping_Guy 9 years ago

Of course he was there against his will, he didnt want to go, you can twist it all you want and play with semantics but he was there against his will. And Courtney threatened him? A junky another junky? Perhaps she said it but the core of it was he was suicidal and dark lately and everyone was worried about him. And its very interesting how when someone actually took the time and negated all your conspiary lunacy(the arkraider thread), you curiously havent responded there. At least with something argumentative and worthwhile. I wonder why.

Typical, clueless denier. Yes, Courtney, who was a junkie, threatened to make sure Kurt never saw Francis again if he didn't go to rehab. That's the only reason why he agreed to it. She threatened him because child protective services were getting involved and she lied and claimed that it was Kurt who was the junkie and not her.

There is not one lunatic denier on this board who has ever, repeat ever, negated what I've written. You deniers are a joke.

[–] bruiser-t-cat 9 years ago

"We know Kurt left and we know that he left a message for Courtney giving her this message, "Elizabeth's phone number is 253-(censored)". I wonder why this wasn't mentioned in SiB. They have a scene where Courtney is manically trying to find him but Kurt has apparently told her where he was going all along.

SiB also shows that Courtney was witness to Tom and Dylan's converation at the Lake Washington house when we know that Tom had taken Dylan to another part of the house out of earshot. Yet we have her apparently looking very nervous on the sofa while they chat. Bit odd. I wonder why Statler would do that.

"The only reason why he was there is because Courtney threatened to make sure he never saw Frances again if he didn't go" - he was a junkie. That was why he was there. He was in denial about his habit(stated by one of his counsellors). NO ONE who was around him at the time has denied that he was a junkie.

[–] Sly_Vaping_Guy 9 years ago

"The only reason why he was there is because Courtney threatened to make sure he never saw Frances again if he didn't go" - he was a junkie. That was why he was there. He was in denial about his habit(stated by one of his counsellors). NO ONE who was around him at the time has denied that he was a junkie.

Kurt was a user but not a serious junkie. Courtney was far more of a junkie than Kurt was. Junkies use every single day. We know during the Rome incident less than a month before his death that there was no heroin in his system. So that tends to shed doubt on the claims that he was a hardcore junkie.

[–] bruiser-t-cat 9 years ago

Absolute rubbish. There are multiple friends of Kurts who have testified about how bad his habit was. By his own admisson he was taking $500 a day and it just kept him alive. Bury your head in the sand all you want but Kurt was a junkie.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Sly_Vaping_Guy 9 years ago

People deny that Kurt was a junkie because he was their icon, their personal hero, the voice of their generation and perhaps of an entire decade. Denial, to this day, is the same reaction that a lot of Beatles fans have when evidence of John Lennon's misogyny and abusive behavior is brought up. So of course now you have an entire generation of people that grew up in the 90s idolizing Kurt Cobain who just can't accept that he, like Lennon before him, was not a perfect person. When a hero to so many dies a tragic death it seems the natural reaction, at least among the fanbase, is to try and wipe any and all dirt from their legacy, even if doing so is intellectually dishonest.

Wrong. I deny he was a "junkie" but admit he was a user. Junkie is a hardcore addict who has to use every single day, multiple times a day. During the Rome incident which happened less than a month before he died, there was no heroin found in his system. So that seems to imply that his habit wasn't nearly as big as people would have you believe.

[–] sumtim3s00n 9 years ago

Yea actually its typical for junkie behaviour. If he cannot get his drug of choice hes going to do anything to get wasted. If I remember correctly, he was drinking a lot at those times, which ppl said was out of character for him. Which makes sense, jumping around the globe, town from town, Its far from easy getting H in every town. So he had to use what he had at hand. You can be sure he'd get high on it if he had it.

[–] Sly_Vaping_Guy 9 years ago

Yea actually its typical for junkie behaviour. If he cannot get his drug of choice hes going to do anything to get wasted. If I remember correctly, he was drinking a lot at those times, which ppl said was out of character for him. Which makes sense, jumping around the globe, town from town, Its far from easy getting H in every town. So he had to use what he had at hand. You can be sure he'd get high on it if he had it.

No, actually it's not. When you are a junkie you have full-blown heroin addiction. Your body must have it to function normally. When you fail to use while addicted then your body goes into withdrawals, which can be life-threatening. So for Kurt not to have it in his system just less than a month before his death implies he wasn't actually addicted. Just doing heroin every now and then does not make one an addict or a junkie. It makes one a user. Doing it on a daily basis means one is an addict and if they quit will suffer withdrawals. Therefore, there is no real evidence that Kurt was a full blown junkie.

[–] sumtim3s00n 9 years ago

First of all, no its not life threatening. Alcohol WD is perhaps life threatening,benzos maybe, opiate withdrawl is not. Also, the degree of the strength of WDs is a wide spectrum dependant on usage. And yes, to stave away DWs you need to keep using. But its all about how long, how much.
In Kurts case, going around the world constantly, he couldnt use all the time without pauses inbetween. He went on binges whenever he could but cause of his touring and schedule, he constantly had pauses in his usage, where he would feel sh+tty and would try to replace it with other stuff to ease the WDs as all junkies do. His usage and tolerance, while quite high, was not as high as is he had had constant access. His WDs werent so bad as they couldve been. With his usage he probably spent a night throwing up and sweating but the worst was over in a days/nights time and afterwards he couldve easily faked being fine, especially with a little help from other stuff.
And clearly, also as with all junkies, the moment he came back to Seattle or LA, where he had his contacts, he would instantly go score. And debating user/junkies, its pointless, its a) semantics b) the distinction if too often extremely hard to pinpoint c) there really are no mere "users" of heroin.

[–] Sly_Vaping_Guy 9 years ago

Again, junkies use every single day. Withdrawals are bad and happen within hours of not using. There's no real proof that Kurt was a junkie. User, yes.

[–] sumtim3s00n 9 years ago

No, a junkie is a person who abuses a drug,starts or already loses control, where usage,craving cases problems for him, usage becomes a detriment to his life ,seeks comfort in it instead of elsewhere, etc.... Everday usage is one of the symptoms, something a junkie strives for(but sometimes prevented due to financial, physical,geographic,whatever circumstances), not a defining characteristic necessarily.

A user uses for fun, recreationally and can keep it under control. Thats FAR from where Kurt was. You dont inject yourself at every chance you get and nod out distancing yourself from ppl and only hanging out with other junkies (who dont judge you)as a mere user.

"WDS are bad and happen within hours" is just...wtf?... you completely ignored what I said and you replied with something that is a blatant and extreme oversimplification.

[–] Sly_Vaping_Guy 9 years ago

And we are done! Can't communicate with someone who insists on bending the whole of reality to fit their twisted mind.

[–] sumtim3s00n 9 years ago

Great argument!
Every single thread where you start losing your footing and have no arguments left you resort to ad hominem or just plain insults intermixed with silly absolute statements decreeing you and only you are correct. Every single time.

[–] slidell333 9 years ago

I have no dog in this fight, and I'm just going to speak from the many users, addicts, recreational users that I've known for many years. Every person I know that did heroin recreationally never injected it. Usually, that's how it starts. One person after several years of daily use still does not bang heroin. Rare, but it just was a financial thing...couldn't afford the pills so buys the dope. Must be strong willed and is probably just trying to keep the withdrawals away more than the high aspect. Have I met people that smoke crack recreationally? Yes (shocked the crap outta me...you'd never guessed it). Possible to IV heroin recreationally? Well, I guess it's possible.

Dave "Crown Time" Blankenship for Time Man of the Year.