MovieChat Forums > 12 Monkeys (2015) Discussion > Problems with the Story

Problems with the Story

posted 8 years ago by rincewind777
4 replies | jump to latest

First of all, I will say that I do love the series. I loved the movie when it came out and I think the series is the first series that I have ever seen that actually does time travel pretty well. However, there are a lot of questions and issues that I have with many issues in the story. Hopefully, someone who is better informed than me will be able to answer some of these questions, others are more just criticisms of the series in general, although I accept that some of these may be issues that are unavoidable in any story that involves time travel.

With that said here are my issues with/questions about the show. Anyone who can answer any of the questions or believes they have better knowledge about an issue please let me know, as I admit I cannot remember a lot of what went on in Season 1 so some issues may have already been explained. Now a lot of these may seem quite pedantic and ridiculous to criticise a show about time travel for (i.e. not being logical or realistic enough) but they are issues I have been thinking about quite a lot while watching the show and I would like to get other people's opinion on them, also some of the points will just be general criticisms:

1. Why not just keep going back to the same point in time until you have solved whatever issue you were trying to solve?

This is probably the biggest logical issue I have with the show, although I think they may well have explained why the cannot do this in Season 1 but I can't remember anything.

It just drives me made when they keep saying things like, 'we don't have much time!' and I'm just thinking 'you have a time machine!'. Every time they go back in time and get something wrong I don't see why they would not just be able to go back to just before this happens to try again till you get it right? The only reason I could think would be that they cannot travel too much as it starts to kill them, although this seems to have conveniently gone out of the window as they seem to travel all of the time now with no ill effects, apart from on the groundhog day episode.

2. Ramsey's character is an absolutely infuriating idiot.
Many of the other characters have moments when they act completely retarded but he is probably the worst for this. He always gets too emotional, does something stupid and ends up making things worse for everyone. Prime example: causing the plague so that his son doesn't disappear. He does not once think of the fact that his son will not really have any future in that time anyway. He then has the nerve to constantly criticise other characters like Deacon for being too harsh, conveniently forgetting that he has killed more people than anyone throughout history for completely selfish reasons.

Also, in the last few episodes, the whole thing of him going to Titan, criticising Caterina for never getting anything right or managing to change anything. She at least brought the plague back a few years, and he was the one who started it anyway!!

There are lots more instances but that's really all I can think of for now regarding him, I think it's his self-righteousness that annoys me the most because it's so hypocritical.

3. The motivations of the Twelve Monkeys don't really make sense. Presumably some, at least near the top, know that it won't just be 'a time without death' but it will be a living hell like Cole etc. believe. In that case, why do they still want it to come about? Unless of course Cole and the rest are wrong and it would actually be wonderful when time ends?

4. I'm worried that the series is painting itself into too much of a corner and making more story loops that it will not be able to close. I'm reminded strongly of Lost which started out strongly but got more and more ridiculous to the point where you could not see how the writers could tie it all together and sure enough they didn't really, just did a trite cop out to save them giving a proper explanation.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, please read if you are interested and leave feedback to say whether you agree or not with my points.

[–] VinnieRattolle 8 years ago

1. Why not just keep going back to the same point in time until you have solved whatever issue you were trying to solve?

If they were to keep going to the same point in time, there would be numerous versions of Cole/Cassie/Ramsey, which could potentially cause a paradox and/or alter the timeline of a previous version of themselves. That was explained in season 1. And Back to the Future II.

Returning to the same point worked in "Lullaby" when Cassie and Cole went to 2020 to kill Katarina, but only because they got caught in a "Groundhog's Day"-inspired time loop.

2. Ramsey's character is an absolutely infuriating idiot.

I love how much viewers have come to hate Ramsey. The way I look at it, this is a flawed guy who's trying to be rational and do the right thing, but his emotions sometimes get in the way, making his actions seem inanely misguided (which I may be understating, considering he spent a few decades in cahoots with genocidal villains!). Yeah, he's screwed things up in gargantuan ways, but he's also saved the day on numerous occasions.

3. The motivations of the Twelve Monkeys don't really make sense.

I don't disagree with you there. The monkeys are made out to be superior beings who understand the intricacies of time in a way humans don't... but the human witness is the one pulling the strings? Doesn't wash.

4. I'm worried that the series is painting itself into too much of a corner and making more story loops that it will not be able to close.

I totally get what you're saying, but I have a hunch that it's not gonna devolve into the convoluted trainwreck that was "Lost." The problem with that show was that it went on way-the-hell too long, giving the writers ample rope to hang themselves - and so they did it in a truly epic way! The general consensus around here seems to be that season 3's the end. Sure, there'll probably be some plot holes (for those who want to nitpick), but if the writers are going into the next season with a "this is it" mentality, I'm inclined to think it won't go off the rails the way that "Lost" did.

[–] NotASpeckOfCereal 8 years ago

I don't disagree with you there. The monkeys are made out to be superior beings who understand the intricacies of time in a way humans don't... but the human witness is the one pulling the strings? Doesn't wash.

There is no logic here, just as with several of today's religious organizations. Faith and belief take the place of logic, even science. There's no reason for them to be making sense at all to anyone outside of their circle, as long as they believe.

Be sure to proof your posts to see if you any words out

[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

There is no logic here, just as with several of today's religious organizations. Faith and belief take the place of logic, even science. There's no reason for them to be making sense at all to anyone outside of their circle, as long as they believe.

I would agree on principle but most religions, if not all, even though they are not based in logic or rationale, do offer and promise some kind of eternal reward to followers, whether as reincarnation, enlightenment, eternal life, thetans or whatever.

This not only doesn't seem to be the case here but they just seem to appear to be a mindless mob getting in the way of the heroes saving the day with no obvious or even detectable motivation.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

absolutely infuriating idiot.
Many of the other characters have moments when they act completely retarded but he is probably the worst for this. He always gets too emotional, does something stupid and ends up making things worse for everyone. Prime example: causing the plague so that his son doesn't disappear

And don't forget the best part: his "son", for whom he's willing to screw the world over... is basically a stranger. He just meets him and somehow, knowing he exists makes billions of deaths worthwhile even though he is basically just an overgrown sperm at that point. He has no relationship with him and for all he knows, the kid might die of malnutrition or a flu in just a week, but hey, it's his sperm walking and talking so *beep* you, world.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco