MovieChat Forums > Shelter (2015) Discussion > Prepare for a lot of anti-poor people co...

Prepare for a lot of anti-poor people comments


TAKERS!
its them fault for not working hard enough!
Why should I sympathize with losers?
Come on here it goes, this is America remember.

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Yeah I've read some pretty ignorant comments here. People don't understand unless they've been through it or know someone who has. There are also those capable of great empathy who haven't experienced such a situation. We need more empathy in this country.

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Like the guard at the hospital and the boiler room guy were nice

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Hospital guy wasn't a total ass, but even he said it was a one night only deal. Boiler room guy was an exploiter, not a nice guy.

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Like the guard at the hospital and the boiler room guy were nice


On what planet is a rapist "nice"? The boiler room guy made Hannah choose between possible death (the storm in the movie is directly modeled after a winter storm in NYC that claimed the lives of multiple homeless people) and she tried to brave the storm and simply couldn't make it to the Brooklyn shelter on foot despite trying, she clearly did not want to do what he was demanding of her in return for his "niceness" but after braving the storm and seeing that she wasn't going to make it deep into Brooklyn in a blizzard she had no good choices. If someone has to choose between freezing to death in a blizzard or having sex that is not being nice, that is rape.

Maybe that's why sexual assault is such a problem, so many people confuse it with being "nice".

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On what planet is a rapist "nice"? The boiler room guy made Hannah choose between possible death (the storm in the movie is directly modeled after a winter storm in NYC that claimed the lives of multiple homeless people) and she tried to brave the storm and simply couldn't make it to the Brooklyn shelter on foot despite trying, she clearly did not want to do what he was demanding of her in return for his "niceness" but after braving the storm and seeing that she wasn't going to make it deep into Brooklyn in a blizzard she had no good choices. If someone has to choose between freezing to death in a blizzard or having sex that is not being nice, that is rape.

Maybe that's why sexual assault is such a problem, so many people confuse it with being "nice".


That's a logical fallacy, with rape you don't have a choice its against your will. She had a choice either die in the blizzard or get on her knees to have somewhere to stay for the night. She chose the later. He might have exploited the situation, which might make him a pervert but not a rapist. So let me get this straight she willingly chose to go back and perform these acts on the guard so she could have a place to stay. Did he force her? Quid Pro Quo has existed since the beginning of time.
"What" ain't no country I've ever heard of. They speak English in What?

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by Deck81 » 4 days ago (Fri May 6 2016 12:18:24)
IMDb member since July 2005
On what planet is a rapist "nice"? The boiler room guy made Hannah choose between possible death (the storm in the movie is directly modeled after a winter storm in NYC that claimed the lives of multiple homeless people) and she tried to brave the storm and simply couldn't make it to the Brooklyn shelter on foot despite trying, she clearly did not want to do what he was demanding of her in return for his "niceness" but after braving the storm and seeing that she wasn't going to make it deep into Brooklyn in a blizzard she had no good choices. If someone has to choose between freezing to death in a blizzard or having sex that is not being nice, that is rape.

Maybe that's why sexual assault is such a problem, so many people confuse it with being "nice".

That's a logical fallacy, with rape you don't have a choice its against your will. She had a choice either die in the blizzard or get on her knees to have somewhere to stay for the night. She chose the later. He might have exploited the situation, which might make him a pervert but not a rapist. So let me get this straight she willingly chose to go back and perform these acts on the guard so she could have a place to stay. Did he force her? Quid Pro Quo has existed since the beginning of time.
"What" ain't no country I've ever heard of. They speak English in What?



Both morally, and legally you are wrong.

Just like if someone points a gun at you and gives you a choice to have sex or die is technically a choice it is also legally rape. If you exploit a situation where someone could die and you make them "choose" between death and sex that is no longer legally considered free choice, and is also not a simple "quid pro quo" prostitution exchange, that kind of death or sex exploitation is rape.

Now later when her life was no longer in danger and she continued to exchange such acts for the money to buy medication for Tahir that is when things become legally an entirely different situation, but that first night when he made her choose between having oral sex in exchange for life saving shelter, or going out into deadly cold in a blizzard where people on the street did in fact die (that storm in the movie is based on a real life one in NYC recently where a number of people died) is the situation where legally he sexually assaulted her.

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Yeah I've read some pretty ignorant comments here. People don't understand unless they've been through it or know someone who has. There are also those capable of great empathy who haven't experienced such a situation. We need more empathy in this country.
Oh you mean like poor people blaming rich people for their problems or thinking being rich is easy?

"What" ain't no country I've ever heard of. They speak English in What?

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What people like that never get is that there is a difference between a person, who, through no fault of their own, cannot support themselves and an able-bodied person who refuses to support themselves.

The first group are the ones we have empathy for, and we feel a moral obligation to take care of.

The second group can go eff themselves.

The percentage of people in the second group who have gotten screwed over by life is tiny compared to the percentage of people who have made bad choices. Getting pregnant when you are in high school is not a good choice. Getting pregnant by multiple men before you are 25 is not a good choice. Not finishing high school is not a good choice. Not getting further education/skills is not a good choice. Using drugs is not a good choice. Smoking is not a good choice. Drinking more than socially is not a good choice.

Exactly why should we have empathy for people who are able to make good choices but choose bad ones? It isn't like 75 years ago when few people really knew how bad smoking was for you - yet people still choose to smoke and/or refuse to stop. You're talking anywhere from $55/carton to $130/carton depending upon where you live - money you just literally burn.

And it isn't like we don't know the dangers of drugs, yet they still choose to do it.

We need less empathy and more personal responsibility from people. We need to stop having a system where people can simply live off of the government. Yes, have a safety net, but limit it. At the same time, stop restricting business so much so they can hire more people for good jobs. We need manufacturing in this country so that people who don't have extensive education or skills can work a productive job and provide for themselves.

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There are men, who become homeless, because the domestic court awards the home to their spouses, and they had jobs before that point, so yes, able bodied people from the second group can seep into the first one by no fault of their own.

Sexual education is not a federal, but a state program. Only 22 states out of 50 offer sexual education, and out of the 22 only 13 have anatomically correct education. A few years back in Texas, after the only option offered was abstinence only, the number of STDs and teenage pregnancies came on the rise. When it was offered, that PP would chip in to offer up to date knowledge on the subject, PTAs revolted against it. That's neither empathy nor personal responsibility. The ruling on the law that was supposed to ban pregnancy termination clinics has just recently been ruled unconstitutional, also not very much on the endorsing part of personal responsibility. For pro-lifers, one being unable or unwilling to care for a child is no reason to deny the option to not get into a quagmire. I don't doubt you being a fellow fiscal conservative, but it's not like social conservatives don't have some lucid expectations.

Restricting businesses? Interesting idea. If there weren't anti discriminatory laws in place, they'd even hire less people, whom they can pay the least that is legally required. It's also why many businesses employ undocumented people, hard to say no to sub par circumstances that many Americans wouldn't take. Those in a bind taking it also rarely have health insurance coverage. For example, plenty of Walmart employees were on food stamps besides their salaries. 2 of your offerings are actually counter intuitive, namely to finish school as high a degree as possible, and to work in manufacturing jobs. The latter is filled with people who don't have higher education, otherwise they would be the foreman, the engineer, the mid level management.

Not to mention, almost all of this relies on a hiring culture, that isn't racist, sexist or homophobic, which does work in big cities (NY, LA) but not in smaller ones. Grouping homeless people around being able bodied is but the surface. People get on the street due to foreclosure, addiction, mental illness, divorce, but also for not believing in god or just being LGBT. There aren't many arguments for personal responsibility when thrown out for being an atheist or gay, if only they had lied about themselves, and stayed as little complacent elves.

Being rich isn't the problem, the constantly shrinking number of self made people is. Trust fund babies do not compare to people who worked for it, and they also exploit several loopholes offered by the tax code, with some even making money off of bankruptcy, that gets people pissed off, and the widow mortgage scheme.

Besides the problem with this couple wasn't even homelessness, for one, I could mention Tahir lying on his visa application, since in case he hasn't lied to her, being a member of a well known terrorist organization pretty much bars anyone from entering the US.

I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Escher.

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There are men, who become homeless, because the domestic court awards the home to their spouses,


You are looking at the end result instead of the cause.

If you aren't ready to get married / not wanting to marry the person you are having sex with, DON'T HAVE SEX WITH THEM.

If you do want to get married to that person, then make sure you work your azz off at making the marriage work - and that starts BEFORE the marriage.

Only 22 states out of 50 offer sexual education, and out of the 22 only 13 have anatomically correct education.


I'm sorry, I keep forgetting that we are still living in the dark ages where doctors are only allowed to examine the parts of a woman's body which is exposed normally and we didn't have TV, movies, magazines and the internet filled with sex.

When exactly did parents stop being teachers? We are so inundated with sex and sexual imagery that I can't understand why parents leave the teaching of something so important and dangerous to schools. Not just the physical aspect of it, but the moral aspect of it.

My wife and I had "the talk" with our children BEFORE their school taught the subject. And, we've had several talks since, always increasing their knowledge and the moral aspect of sex.

Restricting businesses? Interesting idea. If there weren't anti discriminatory laws in place, they'd even hire less people, whom they can pay the least that is legally required.


Relatively few companies actually hire illegals. They do so because of the taxes and regulations make hiring Americans and legals difficult. I'm not saying that is right, I'm just saying that companies avoided hiring and/or cut back so they wouldn't meet the restrictions of 0bamacare and other regulations.

My wife is a teacher. She's been fingerprinted at least 10 times in the past 5 or 6 years with state police and different schools she's been at. The reason? The state police can't share with the school districts and the school districts can't share with the each other and it had been 5 years since she'd been at one place even though she'd just gotten fingerprinted 6 months prior at another place.

And that is just a minor BS thing.

2 of your offerings are actually counter intuitive, namely to finish school as high a degree as possible, and to work in manufacturing jobs.


I didn't say one relied upon the other. I'm saying that manufacturing jobs can be a good way to earn a decent living for people who are never going to be able to get a college degree.

Again, parents need to be involved in their children's lives to help them make good choices. People need to make good choices in their lives and not look to blame anyone else for their bad choices.

There aren't many arguments for personal responsibility when thrown out for being an atheist or gay, if only they had lied about themselves, and stayed as little complacent elves.


Ummm, yeah. Ok? 

Being rich isn't the problem, the constantly shrinking number of self made people is


That actually isn't true. There are more people becoming wealthy than there are the "trust fund babies".

Either way, so what? Your point is nothing more than petty jealousy.

they also exploit several loopholes offered by the tax code, with some even making money off of bankruptcy,


There are few, actual 'loopholes' in the tax code. What you are complaining about is the tax law itself. It allows deductions for losses and the such.

It is also why I'm in favor of a flat tax which eliminates all of the cr*p in the tax code. EVERYONE pays 15% of their income so EVERYONE has some skin in the game. Cut government spending in ALL programs and allow people to have more of their money to spend as they see fit.


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America was built by bailing out winners. By rigging a nation, of the winners, for the winners, by the winners :)

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Losers always sat stuff like this. They ignore how most of the wealthy people in the country are first or second generation wealthy.

They also blame others for their own bad decisions. Sure, there are some able-bodied people who just keep getting cr*pped on. But most of the whiners are the ones who dropped out of college or HS, had kids early, waste their money on drinking lots of alcohol and/or soda, eating fast food, smoking, tattoos, expensive electronic gadgets and other things which will never get them out of their lower class lifestyle.

You never hear them say, "I got out of HS and went to work right away. I saved up a bit and went to school at night. I got training which led me to get a better job. I don't smoke, I don't have tattoos, I rarely drink alcohol/soda, I bought a modest home, I buy used cars, I don't spend more than what I can afford."

The reason you don't hear them say that, is because those people aren't losers who blame other people for their mistakes.

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Well yes. But you can still be very well educated and secure a good job and not make it unless you catch the economy at a good point in time. If you're not as well equipped as others, no guarantees you'll survive financially.

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Which has zero to do with the system being "rigged."

Also, define "good point in time" for the economy. There are loads of people who get wealthy during hard financial times.

And, I'm not saying it is easy. I'm just saying that the overwhelming majority of time it comes down to the effort a person puts forward. Instead of demanding $15/hour for a part-time burger flipping job, the successful person goes and gets a second job to make more money.

I've made this offer before. I would sign a non-disclosure agreement, stating that I could not discuss with anyone the financial standing of the person in question. Then, I would audit that person and if I couldn't find where they p!ssed away $10,000 over a two-year period, I'd pay them $1,000. If I could find it, then they'd have to pay me $1,000.

No one ever took me up on it. I really didn't expect them to, but for some it was they got back several thousand $ on their tax return, and then used that to pay for their big vacation. They didn't like my suggestion of dumping 75% of that into their 401.k or IRA and skipping a big vacation one year.

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As with many message boards the film itself is forgotten, and the "discussion" moves in another direction. Admittedly the film is forgettable and not the least bit convincing, so in this case I can understand that.



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