MovieChat Forums > Better Call Saul (2015) Discussion > So Jimmy's Revenge Against Chuck Is...[S...

So Jimmy's Revenge Against Chuck Is...[Spoiler]


...to make him uninsurable for malpractice, thus unable to work as a lawyer.

reply

So rough. I mean, I like Jimmy and all, but using someone's mental illness against them is horrible. I understand that was the only angle they could see to chip away at him, but they got their day in court. That Jimmy is keeping after this and abusing that angle is just as bad as what Chuck's done to him. Revenge certainly brings out the worst in us.

Man, their relationship is sooooo shitty!

reply

Yeah it's getting nasty between those two. The sibling rivalry between Jimmy and Chuck should be the greatest in history.

reply

I'm enjoying the ride, because we know where Jimmy ends up and it's fun seeing everything that happens between now and then.

reply

I think it is safe to say this was an unforeseen consequence and thus was not factored into Jimmy's original plan. Had he known this would have happened he may have chosen a different route entirely(maybe accepting he can't practice law simply due to not being able to afford it). Now he has committed to regaining his practice, but suddenly is confronted with what appears insurmountable and that led him to level the playing field more accurately.
Chuck doesn't even seem to really respect the law. He plays by the rules to secure his own position and reputation, but his little speech on the stand goes to show that he thinks he is the arbiter of justice, and it was up to him to see justice done against Jimmy. Reality is, he is an officer of the court and has no duty/obligation/entitlement to conduct sting operations or entrap(in Chuck's words, "provoked an admission in adverse interest" & "exaggerated the symptoms of my disease to extract the truth") people.
Even if you take Chuck at his word, he is still a conniving, delusional, uncaring, asshat.

You admit Chuck is mentally unwell. Doesn't that also call into question anything he says/claims/does? He is unable to admit he is even ill, which makes his judgement all the more suspect.

Chuck also claims there is EMF(electromagnetic field) emanating from a mobile phone battery alone. That is scientifically untrue and impossible.

Everything about Chuck screams insane douche bag that needs to go down in flames.

reply

Looks like I predicted Chuck's death by accident. He most certainly did go down in flames.

reply

If the OP is correct, then their relationship is going into the turlet for a reason. Relationships between brothers can be good or bad and it appears that they are heading for the latter. They will be destroying what's left of their family. Rebecca could have been part of this family, but it did not work out for some reason. Possibly, that's why she wanted Jimmy to help Chuck when he wasn't answering the door. It could mean that she's going to take sides if she decides to get involved. She thinks Chuck has lost his mind. Then there is Kim, who could have been Mrs. McGill, but their relationship hasn't progressed to that point. We still have three episodes to go this season and I'm hoping for some kind of resolution at the end. Unfortunately, there won't be an episode this week due to the holiday.

reply

Chuck deserves every bit of it, mentally ill or not. He tried to get his brother disbarred so there are obviously repercussions. Jimmy took care of his lousy, insane brother for years and all he got was grief... mainly because Chuck was jealous of his brother. Jimmy is a flawed man like all people on Earth and I can understand Chuck being annoyed by him but he tried to take away his livelihood. At this point, turnabout is fair play.

reply

Didn't seem premeditated... he's been working his ass off to try to pay his half of the bills and he knows he's going to have to tell her soon to find a new tenant. He's been driven to desperate measures... offering his ad space for free on almost no chance that those guys will ever buy the rest of his slots... draining his savings... and now trying to talk an insurance company catering specifically to attorneys into refunding his premium. It reminded me of Albert Brooks in Lost in America trying to talk a casino owner into giving back all the money that his wife lost. I think he finally just snapped... and knowing he's going down, decided to take his brother out with him. Don't feel sorry for Chuck at all... even though Kim does and Jimmy will.

reply

"Didn't seem premeditated"

Premeditation, legally speaking, requires only a moment to think about what you are going to do. There does not need to be an elaborate plan or any significant amount of time passed between thinking about it and doing it.

reply

Obviously he knew what he was doing, but I don't think he went there planning to take down Chuck. That is all I meant.

The whole situation reminded Jimmy of his anger towards Chuck... so if he had begun to soften towards him... it all came right back with the 150% premium increase that hinders him from practicing with Kim.

reply

Absolutely right. Jimmy saw an opportunity, and seized it. It illustrated how adept he is at the short game, as opposed to Chuck's long game.

reply

I understand what you meant and I agree. I should have prefaced that comment. I only brought that up because it is a legal show and I am a bit obsessed with legal proceedings. Most people do not realize how fine a line is between 1st and 2nd degree murder. I find it interesting, but that is probably just me.
I wasn't trying to nitpick your comment or anything.

:)

reply

Oh, no worries... I wasn't offended... you have a long way to go before you even come close to the few resident crazies on the board. Just was clarifying my thought in case you didn't get it completely. Thanks for saying that though!

reply

The 150% premium increase is a good point. Jimmy realizes that he can't continue his practice just by the clients that he has. I didn't think he went in there to get Chuck, but to get his money back because he's in desperate need and with his girl friend to boot. This reminds me of the one episode where he could have had $800K tax-free with Mike to challenge his moral values. Jimmy has screwed up, too, because he resigned from Davis & Main. He also was lectured by Kim over what he did in getting Mike's drug dealer friend off the cop's tail. Maybe Jimmy realized that Chuck got him regardless of how his hearing turned out, so he lost his temper and just wanted revenge on Chuck, i.e. his Saul Goodman side took over. The drama is building.

reply

Yeah, it's kind of like finding out all of a sudden that your rent got doubled... that's why it didn't feel truly premeditated. If he wasn't in love with Kim, he also wouldn't have been nearly as angry... but to have his dream to build something with her crushed by his brother's petty jealousy... it would be natural in the moment to lash out in anger.

reply

Yes, it wasn't premeditated at all. He went in there with the very reasonable goal of getting a refund. Of all the things Jimmy has done, this seemed incredibly rational. If Chuck can be a vindictive little $hit, then so can Jimmy.

reply

I think both their vindictiveness is leading Jimmy to become Saul Goodman aka LWYRUP. Not sure what'll happen to Chuck though since he'll run into trouble with his firm. It's almost like Jimmy has no choice but to turn into Saul. His choice is determinism, i.e. it's already been decided.

reply

By your definition, everything is premeditated.

reply

Yup, basically. That is why I find it so interesting. Legally speaking that is all that is required and that can be the difference between 15 years in prison or a death sentence.

Not very comforting, is it? "Justice" is an illusion. It does not exist, but our "justice" system is still better than nothing. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

reply

Seems like this law would then favor the impulsive and stupid... don't understand why they should have a legal advantage over the more thoughtful.

reply

Its not really a law, but a legal definition. I don't much care for it either. I much prefer the colloquial definition. If you watch murder trials they go into great detail when instructing the jury and carefully and exhaustively explain the meaning of premeditation. If you would like an example I can probably dig some up.

reply

It doesn't work that way.

reply

What doesn't work what way? Use complete sentences and explain yourself. I can just say "Yes it does" and that has as much substance as your post, but where does that leave us?

reply

I didn't need more words.

reply

So, you have zero rebuttal. You have to explain how and why it is wrong. I can provide definitive evidence that that is in fact how it works, but since you have no point to make and zero evidence to support it my response is;

Yes, it does.

reply

It you thought this was a debate, you were confused. I have no need for your input.

reply

So, reality only conforms to your understanding of it?
People like you are absolutely insane. The fact you are allowed to vote, let alone procreate makes me very afraid for the future of society.

reply

And how frustrating that finding people willing to buy airtime for a commercial would be such an arduous task. Jimmy is really having a hard time trying to impress Kim.

reply

The worst part is, he is offering a really great deal. The time slot might not be the best, but with Jimmy producing it and the "free"(included) airtime, it is quite the bargain.

reply

I don't think he planned that, I think he is so tired and beaten down scrambling and hustling every day to survive this suspension, doing the community service and still trying to pay his bills, and when he heard his premiums would be 150% raised when his suspension was up, it was the last straw and he figured ok I gotta pay more? Then so does Chuck!

reply

You're right, he couldn't have planned it. He didn't know until that meeting that he'd have to deal with a much higher premium as a result of his suspension.

But when he processed that, he quickly concluded that, if he was damaged, Chuck would be completely sunk if the insurer realized how high-risk someone that unstable would be for them to cover.

Jimmy saw the chance to stick the shiv in and twist it, and did it with some glee. The expression on his face at the very end shows us a much darker, malevolent side of Jimmy.

reply

Oh for sure he was pleased with himself! I feel like the tearful breakdown was almost real- meaning he really did feel like crying but he just lid it on thicker than he normally would.

reply

I honestly think Jimmy wanted to put the whole Chuck thing behind him, as he said to Kim. But when he was told that his insurance premiums are going to shoot up because of his suspension, in yet another way he had been screwed by Chuck, he got angry and decided to screw Chuck right back.

reply

Chuck tried to get Jimmy disbarred. ALL of Chuck's problems, he brought on himself.

reply

Absolutely right.

Lets not forget how Jimmy spent years looking after Chuck, and Chuck repaid him by getting his license to practice law suspended for a year. And this wasn't the first time Chuck sabotaged Jimmy. Every time Jimmy tried to get ahead in life, Chuck would push him down.

Chuck is a sick and evil human being, and Jimmy is finally fed up with being the caring and loving brother. I really can't blame him for that.

As far as Jimmy wanting a refund of his insurance payment, I just don't see how the insurance company can legally keep the money. They are collecting money for nothing, since he cannot practice law. This would be like an insurance company continuing to charge you home owner's insurance after your house burns down, or billing you for life insurance after you are dead.

If his license to practice was suspended, his insurance premiums should be suspended too for the duration. After he regains his license they can jack up his rates, but I don't see how they can ethically collect premiums when it is impossible for them to be insuring anything for the next year.

reply

[deleted]

If his license to practice was suspended, his insurance premiums should be suspended too for the duration.

No-- the insurance representative mentioned the very real possibility that one of his former clients may sue him during the time of his suspension. In such a case, his insurance premium would cover his defense during his suspension.

reply

Last night we saw that Chuck is finally getting therapy and is really improving. For the first time, I have felt sympathy for him because he's making such an effort to get better. He's finally realized it in in his head and he's taking real steps to fix it, instead of demanding the world accommodate him.
He may not be able to practice law anymore after the malpractice insurance hike, but I feel like in some weird way, Jimmy did him a favor. Jimmy's stunt with the battery is what triggered Chuck to get on the road to recovery.
But then again, Chuck has lofty goals of working in a courtroom again, and when he finds out that is off the table, he might backslide into depression and not have as much motivation to get better.

reply

Terrific point. It's hard to realize that all the efforts to help Chuck by bringing him food, supplies and reading materials, were actually enabling him in his sickness.

And even with the malpractice insurance hike, he will still be able to practice law-- just not the types of cases he probably would want. Also, there are other places to obtain Malpractice insurance; not every insurance firm was contaminated by Jimmy's mechanations.

reply

And maybe after a certain period of time, and with some psychiatric testimony, his rates could go down again if he continues to get better.

reply

Yes, absolutely. I mean, even having points on your license doesn't last forever. You can regain your lower rates.

reply

Reading through this, this is a great discussion.
It has brought out a lot of emotion, as seeing this relationship
in BCS does.

I think Jimmy should never have helped Saul when he broke
down in the print shop. In fact, i know they had to do that for
the story, but I don't think Jimmy would risk his life just to
save his brother a little pain. You never know, and cannot know
what is in someone else's head ... particularly a fictional TV
character someone else ... but I really hate Chuck, and so
should Jimmy.

It was not like Jimmy was doing anything to Chuck himself,
personally.

reply

To add to this discussion, I think the beauty of this show is that you can find ways to sympathize and kind of hate Jimmy at the same time. He really is a conflicted person and you can see how a situation like this would twist a man, removing what was good about him and leaving Saul in it wake.

reply