MovieChat Forums > Better Call Saul (2015) Discussion > Did Chuck *want* Ernesto to hear the tap...

Did Chuck want Ernesto to hear the tape?

posted 8 years ago by ernieball5150 (49)
20 replies | jump to latest

Seems like Chuck is setting up a long play. And the talk about "vérité" with Howard at the beginning might also have been forshadowing of Chuck pulling a fast one on Ernesto.

I figure Chuck wants Ernesto to tell Jimmy about the tape, and this way Jimmy will feel threatened, but Chuck will have "clean hands" because he hasn't actually revealed the existence of the tape to Jimmy himself. He even covered his ass further by emphasizing to Ernesto that Ernesto is legally bound not to reveal the tape's existence, even though he secretly expects (and hopes) Ernesto will tell Jimmy. This allows Chuck to cause the threat of the tape's existence to reach Jimmy's ears without being accused of blackmail.

In a similar vein, he may be hoping that Howard will reveal the tape's existence to Kim.

Again, this is a way for Chuck to screw with Jimmy but maintain a facade of propriety.

[–] clocker (17) 8 years ago

Good analysis, I agree. It got a bit creepy. I was just waiting for Chuck to say to Ernesto:
"Oh boy, would you come in here for a moment please". It had that 1940s feel to it.

[–] ernieball5150 (49) 8 years ago

And knowing some of the heavy-handed symbolism this show has used in the past (cough, cupholder), I just realized that when Jimmy was helping Chuck take down the shielding, Chuck was admonishing Jimmy because the *varnish* (surface layer) is important to him. I mean, it's normal for anyone who cares about their furnishings to not want varnish damaged, but it's so ON THE NOSE about the difference in attitude Jimmy and Chuck have about how things should be done (and how important *appearances* are to Chuck).

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 8 years ago

Chuck is very shrewd.

😎

[–] ernieball5150 (49) 8 years ago

I watched the scene again, and after he dismisses Ernesto, Chuck puts the tape player back in the drawer and playfully flips his tongs, as a pleased look crosses his face. And if there were still any doubt, when Ernesto showed him the batteries wrapped in foil, Chuck was insistent that "I need them now". Yet after Ernesto replaces them, all he does is put the player away again. The supposed urgency to have the batteries replaced at that moment was bogus.

And Chuck had oh-so-casually walked back to the kitchen while Ernesto started replacing the batteries, so once the tape started playing (conveniently at a spot where Jimmy's voice was audible, specifically talking about changing the numbers no less), Chuck would have an excuse not to have pressed the stop button sooner.

[–] MovieManCin2 (26342) 8 years ago

Aha!

😎

[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 8 years ago

YES. he had the tape all cued up to that exact spot!

Also, I do not think the old batteries were even really dead. he had to get Ernesto to use the tape recorder so he pretended he needed new batteries.

They kept cutting back to Mike who was also using dead batteries in his cunning plot. Both of them deliberately drained the batteries in different devices and both had a long game in mind.
they were making a parallel between the calculating intelligence of both men.

[–] Sentient Meat (1509) 8 years ago

It's already known that Jimmy doesn't get disbarred so the most likely scenario is that this all comes back to haunt him by fucking Kim over with Mesa Verde. She seemed to be getting OCD with all the stress from handling the account and knowing the future gives the proceedings the feeling of a painful, slow moving train wreck. Still love the show, but I wish I could start watching Saul first and then watch Breaking Bad.

[–] DreamersxDisease (817) 8 years ago

I agree, that it seems likely it would most directly affect Kim rather than Jimmy outright. Remember he did say emphatically, "I DID THIS FOR KIM!" So, Chuck knows she's his Achilles heel and to mess with her would be really getting at him where it hurts the most. I think that's an insightful prediction for what would be coming because, yes, I believe Chuck very much wanted Ernesto to hear that because he knew he'd go running to Jimmy about it.

It's like a roundabout form of blackmail really.

[–] Sentient Meat (1509) 8 years ago

Yeah, I didn't catch that... I'll have to rewatch it again to see Chuck's expression but good call by the OP if so.

[–] DreamersxDisease (817) 8 years ago

If it wasn't for that expression I'm not sure I would've questioned that scene as much...but there's a definite smug smirk on his face as he goes to walk out of the room. After seeing that I had the same thought as the OP, the recorder going off was intentional. He saw how loyal Ernesto was to Jimmy last time when Chuck had his episode at the copier store so he knows he's an easy target in that regard.

Poor Ernesto.

[–] Sentient Meat (1509) 8 years ago

Yeah, it all makes sense now that you guys explained that way... should know by now that there are no simple moves in this show. What do you think will happen with real time Saul, now that he collapsed?

[–] DreamersxDisease (817) 8 years ago

Oh god, that opener was great. It was interesting to see that lawyer muscle in his body is still begging to be practiced, haha....his collapse though? Man, I hope it's not the end of him! I don't entirely remember, do they only do those flash forwards in the first scene of the season? That's what I thought, but I could be wrong....but in that case we wouldn't really know until next season then!

Fainting like that is super vague, ya know? It could just be stress or anxiety or it could be his heart giving out, who knows! Considering what happened before it would make sense it was him being freaked out by the mall cop interaction, it broke the boring facade of the life he was living, seems like he no longer could live under that veneer as well and it got to him. If he ends up in the hospital I wonder if someone could ID him or it'll set off a domino effect of him being identified and whatever the hell that means for him! Many people are after him from this show all through what he did in BB. Not a good turn of events if so.

[–] Sentient Meat (1509) 8 years ago

It was very good... although I don't know why he felt compelled to answer the cop's question... he could've just said he was reading his book... I guess they wanted to show that Saul hadn't completely died inside the Cinnabon manager, so he starts out playing the good citizen and then the Saul/Jimmy part of him comes out. I don't think he'll die, it would be too bleak after all that's happened. I'm hoping at the series finale he finally gets back together with Kim

[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 8 years ago

Yes I really think he did it on purpose. When Ernesto left, Chuck twirled those tongs like a gunfighter twirls his gun after a crack shot. That was Chuck saying "yeah I'm a clever bastard, I'm a badass".
I don't know what his plan is yet, he's an evil genius so his plan is usually several steps ahead of what you can guess, but there is most def a plan.

[–] dt123 (704) 8 years ago

Vince Gilligan on Talking Saul said they retook that tong flipping shot like 10 times to get it right. I didnt even notice i first time around, had to rewatch the scene.

[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 8 years ago

I saw that too. It was improvised, but still needed multiple tries.

Chuck comes off as cocky, like he's smart but is too pleased with himself for his smartness and that makes me loathe him. He always thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and he has a little orgasm every time he can correct someone.
Like that one moment he and Jimmy ALMOST had a bonding moment over the old book, but Chuck couldn't resist correcting Jimmy. Always busting balls. Always smirking.
He can't even function in the world, but still thinks he's superior to everyone.

[–] dt123 (704) 8 years ago

Good insight into his character!

[–] Volley (3433) 8 years ago

Yep, I think he did it on purpose. Chuck's very smart when he needs to be, and he has some of Jimmy McGill's crafty nature in him as well.

[–] AtomicReturns (1252) 8 years ago

That didn't occur to me but I think you're right. Very good analysis there, and that tong flip at the end did show him quite pleased with himself. I should've caught on there.

Although if this were a horror film, Chuck may have to "get rid" of witnesses with the tongs lol. Sorry, Ernesto, but you've heard too much.

[–] dt123 (704) 8 years ago

And I think Ernesto is no dummy. He'll tell Jimmy but I'm guessing he'll gain from that. Not sure if that's good or bad. Time will tell on Ernesto.

Did Chuck *want* Ernesto to hear the tape?

Did Chuck want Ernesto to hear the tape?