MovieChat Forums > Olive Kitteridge (2014) Discussion > CUTTING the CORD

CUTTING the CORD

posted 10 years ago by xxpo
22 replies | jump to latest

Previously it was suggested that what HENRY did by CUTTING the CORD of friendship between Olive and O'Casey causes him to become even MORE DEPRESSED than he was which leads to his death.

Since O'Casey also gave KEVIN rides whenever Olive wants to check up on his mother ...

which must have also been a quite FREQUENT occurence according to the SELFISH remarks that we hear Olive's SELFISH son making ...

who says he's tired of his mother dealing with Kevin and his mother and wants to WALK HOME ...

and we also see O'Casey giving KEVIN the book of POEMS with the PASSAGE that is also pinned to the wall of the BAR ...

the one about saving us from SHOTGUNS and FATHER'S SUICIDES ...

it also looks like O'CASEY was also a SURROGATE FATHER FIGURE to Kevin as well.

So when HENRY CUTS the CORD of friendship between Olive and O'Casey, he also CUTS the CORD between O'Casey and KEVIN as well, because there'd also be no reason why he'd give KEVIN rides home anymore after Henry forbids Olive to ride with him anymore.

Also Note the way KEVIN'S mother also DIES soon after this.

So without O'Casey and Olive coming by to CHECK UP on her anymore because of HENRY'S JEALOUSY, it also looks like not just ONE LIFE but 2 LIVES are effected by Henry.

And since KEVIN also says he didn't think it was an ACCIDENT ...

(due to the way we also see O'Casey write down the SHOTGUN and FATHER's SUICIDE line from the POEM on the NAPKIN right before he dies) ...

that also means what HENRY did probably also results in not just ONE but in TWO SUICIDES (in the DEATHS of O'Casey and KEVIN'S MOTHER).

And at least Olive SAVE'S LIVES and wasn't indirectly responsible for anyone's death the way HENRY seems to be in this story.

But for most viewers HENRY also seems like a SAINT to them and OLIVE is the SINNER.

🐇 🐰

[–] MycroftHolmes 10 years ago

It's so sad how many lives Olive destroys. Henry, Chris, O'Casey, Kevin, Kevin's Mom, Suzanne. Her selfishness, insensitivities, cruelness and foibles touch so many lives and leaves so much destruction in her wake. These people's lives would have been so much better had they never met her. So sad.

What we got here is... failure to communicate!

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[–] Suboxone 10 years ago

I agree Mycroftholmes

[–] jfitz_returns 10 years ago

How on earth did she destroy O'Casey, Kevin and his mom's lives? O'Casey was, apparently, a drunk and tortured soul. He's responsible for his own reckless actions. Kevin was bipolar and would have killed himself that day if not for Olive. He was likely overlooked in school by most as that crazy woman's trashy son. Kevin's mother was seriously ill and, not surprisingly, not taking care of herself. She killed herself.

I get it. You hate this character and have no compassion for her or the mentally ill but Olive wasn't the devil of her town.

[–] MycroftHolmes 10 years ago

Her affair with O'Casey is what drove him to his depression and possible suicide. Her interference with Kevin's mom, telling her not to take her medicine, drove her to her death. Olive leaves a trail of destruction wherever she goes.
You're wrong, I actually like Olive. I feel great empathy for her. I just see her for what she is, unlike many people on this board. I can see someone's fault's and still care for them.

What we got here is... failure to communicate!

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[–] jfitz_returns 10 years ago

It was a flirtation.

She told Kevin's mom to get up, make food, not wallow all day. After all, it wasn't just her life she was responsible for.

You're wrong, I actually like Olive.

lol, clearly.

[–] Karma-For-You 10 years ago

I saw Olive saving people, not destroying them.

[–] jfitz_returns 10 years ago

I agree. She certainly saved people that were most vulnerable, but she also did a number on her son. Obviously it wasn't deliberate but she seemed to fail at finding a way to communicate with him and support him effectively. I don't think she destroyed or saved Henry. He chose her for a reason and seemed to just get, and accept, her for her flaws, and she did for his as well.

[–] MycroftHolmes 10 years ago

She did inadvertently save a couple people, oddly enough. Her interest in depression led to her friendship with Kevin's mom. This led to her interest in Kevin which is why she jumped in his car when she recognized him. Her interest in flowers is why she noticed the girl picking them while sitting in the car.

What we got here is... failure to communicate!

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rainegrewal 8 years ago

I agree. She helped wherever she could, especially with her students. I think she was a bit harsh towards her son in the last episode and she was surely childish but she was a giving, caring person. And I think she would have mended her relationship with her son.

[–] MycroftHolmes 10 years ago

They were talking about running away together.

She advised Kevin's mom not to take her medicine.

I do like Olive. She had good intentions. She was just a sick, troubled woman.

What we got here is... failure to communicate!

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[–] CheruthCutestory 10 years ago

They were talking about running away together.

It was idle talk. They had no intention of doing that. If Olive wanted to run away with him Olive would have.

She advised Kevin's mom not to take her medicine.

Kevin's mother was nearly catatonic on the couch. So, in that circumstance it was a good call (until she learned she wasn't taking them). And antidepressants back in the day were less effective than they are now. More importantly, she knew that she used that medication to horde so she could eventually kill herself.

Henry also advised more sunlight and less medication.

Olive showed she knew very well that depression was a disease. She explained that to Chris. She didn't think it was something you can just shake off. And she had no moral condemnation for her not being able to do it. She was just offering advice based on the situation she saw in front of her.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Whatlarks 10 years ago

It's common to like a character and also be rigorously honest about their flaws and the harm they've caused, and be disgusted by them. It's the same in life. To not appreciate that betrays an extremely narrow way of experiencing those with whom we share the world.

As MyCroftHolmes said, Olive did great injury to Rachel, Kevin's mom, and to Kevin. She helped Rachel only in a superficial, temporary way.

To have knowledge that a psychotic and clinically depressed mother isn't taking her meds is to create a moral responsibility to encourage her to take them. And Olive was the child's teacher, no less.

And it's not just this one occasion, because Olive says to Rachel, "Are you collecting them again?" I.e., this wasn't the first time Olive had learned of Rachel's going off her meds.

By not encouraging her to take her meds, and by not reporting Rachel's true situation to Henry and/or to her physician, Olive directly contributed to Rachel's death, and to Kevin's being made an orphan.

When I say report Rachel's "true situation," I mean that when Olive returned home, she told Henry this: "Rachel's not leaving the house again. You have to watch what you give her, Henry."

That horrific lie summed things up: Olive valued maintaining her own warped attitude - including implying that Henry had responsibility for Rachel's dire situation - far more than safeguarding two extremely vulnerable people's lives.

Ironically, Olive encouraged Rachel to drink coffee, but not to take her meds. So caffeine's fine, but anti-psychotics are not. It's the same destructive lies: "snap out of it" and "erase it from your mind."

In my view, Olive's response to Rachel's situation was unconscionable.

[–] MycroftHolmes 10 years ago

Yes, Olive seemed to have some sort of hatred of psychiatrists.

What we got here is... failure to communicate!

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[–] CheruthCutestory 10 years ago

And it's not just this one occasion, because Olive says to Rachel, "Are you collecting them again?" I.e., this wasn't the first time Olive had learned of Rachel's going off her meds.

You have completely misinterpreted that scene. Rachel was collecting them so as to eventually have enough to try to kill herself with. Olive's main concern was that she was going to kill herself so that is what she addressed. I think that is a pretty damn good priority.

Let's be clear about what was happening here. Rachel was doubling her prescriptions (the scene with Henry) and hording them. So as to eventually have enough to overdose on. That was the situation Olive was dealing with.

And what was she supposed to do other than what she did? Encourage her not to kill herself is basically the only power she had.

When I say report Rachel's "true situation," I mean that when Olive returned home, she told Henry this: "Rachel's not leaving the house again. You have to watch what you give her, Henry."

That horrific lie summed things up: Olive valued maintaining her own warped attitude - including implying that Henry had responsibility for Rachel's dire situation - far more than safeguarding two extremely vulnerable people's lives.

Yes, a pharmacist handing out double medication so a patient can kill themselves would be a bad thing. Henry actually was being careful not to give her a double dose but Olive didn't know that.

Olive telling Henry not to give Rachel suicide help is not horrific in any normal person's world view.

In my view, Olive's response to Rachel's situation was unconscionable.

In my view, your finding Olive not wanting to help Rachel kill herself is disgusting.

Ironically, Olive encouraged Rachel to drink coffee, but not to take her meds. So caffeine's fine, but anti-psychotics are not. It's the same destructive lies: "snap out of it" and "erase it from your mind."

That isn't what her view was. As she explained to Chris, she knows depression is a disease. She knows it is genetic. She knows you can't just snap out of it. But Rachel wasn't even capable of getting off the couch when she saw her. At first she thought it was the meds and when she found out it wasn't she focused on the far larger issue.

Lithium, which is what we know she was on due to the scene from Henry, does have a lot of side-effects. And would very likely not be used today to treat Rachel. So, Olive thinking that the medication was the cause was hardly strange. An overdose of lithium can also kill you.

We aren't talking about modern anti-depressants here. Something like Wellbutrin would be fairly unlikely to kill you in overdose. But that isn't what she was on.

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[–] schall1991 9 years ago

Spot on. I'm glad someone around here can see things for what they are.

[–] xxpo 10 years ago

I agree Karma.

Olive was a better person than her husband despite the SUPERFICIAL CHARM that we see him display.

She never tells HENRY he can't see THE MOUSE anymore, for example, like the way he CHASES AWAY her CO WORKER.

Due to his JEALOUSY, and the way HENRY refuses to let OLIVE continue the relationship she has with O'Casey ...

it's also "A Do as HENRY says, but NOT as he does himself" situation.

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[–] scoutabout29 9 years ago

It's one the fascinating aspects of this miniseries is that the general perception is that Olive is a mean, uncaring person, whereas the general perception of Henry was that he was nice, gentle and kind-hearted. And Olive was mean, and Henry was kind to the bone.

But their influence on other lives was the opposite of their reputations. Olive saved the young lady who fell into the river. She may have saved Kevin. She certainly did temporarily, as she helped Rachel for a time. She saved Bill Murray's character at the end. She was at her best when circumstances called upon her to act to help others. She just refused to help herself, and failed to see her son's need for help.

Henry, meanwhile, was the catalyst for pushing Denise and Jerry together. His naïve but kind-hearted intentions had the unintended consequence of putting Denise in a horrible marriage. By ending Olive and O'Casey's rides, he drove O'Casey deeper into his depression. He had every right to do that. And no one can say he's responsible. O'Casey was responsible for his choices. But Henry was a catalyst for misery, and Olive was a catalyst for good.

I'm reminded of Olive's reasoning early on for rejecting medication to treat her depression. It goes hand and hand with her intelligence, she said.

[–] joi2049 (5561) 21 days ago

Henry, meanwhile, was the catalyst for pushing Denise and Jerry together. His naïve but kind-hearted intentions had the unintended consequence of putting Denise in a horrible marriage. By ending Olive and O'Casey's rides, he drove O'Casey deeper into his depression. He had every right to do that. And no one can say he's responsible. O'Casey was responsible for his choices. But Henry was a catalyst for misery, and Olive was a catalyst for good.

Since HBO aired the 1st four episodes yesterday (and will air them again on Sunday, Nov 10 starting about 10am) what you say about shoving Denise into an awful marriage is correct. What's also interesting is how Jerry was also as "MOUSEY" as Denise when we meet him, so how did he progress from being so meek and mild personality wise into being the horrible person we encounter later on? Remember how Denise was the one who suggested the greeting card display and wipes the spill off his shirt as they ate lunch together? It would be nice to know how the transformation in Jerry took place.

And yes Henry also had the right to stop Casey from driving his son and wife to school after Chris complained about how frightened he was by the way he drove (due to the fast way that he drove around the curves). So putting a stop to the rides to school may have also saved the life of Olive and his son.

But yes, Henry also caused the "Misery" that we saw Olive experience after she witnessed the dead body of Casey at the scene of the accident (which also triggers memories of finding the dead body of her father who killed himself in the kitchen).

And that experience is probably also what enables her to recognize Kevin's state of mind (who was also planning to kill himself). And it's probably also what motivates her to try to help Kevin's suicidal mom, and what helps her to understand Casey's frame of mind (which is also confirmed by the quote about "shotguns and father's suicides" that he writes on the napkin just before he dies).

Anyhow, perhaps Olive suffered from PTSD due to the suicide of her father rather than from depression??? Then the other experience at the hospital (where she and Henry were held hostage and had their lives threatened by the junkies) further places both of them under still more stress.

But since neither one of them takes the advice of their son to get some therapy, that issue is also never addressed.

Can hardly wait to watch the show again on NOV 10th. It was really great to get to see it again 10 years later !!! Also wish they still made more shows like it that mostly deal with such brilliant character studies!!!

[–] jacotodd47 (1836) 21 days ago

"But yes, Henry also caused the "Misery" that we saw Olive experience after she witnessed the dead body of Casey at the scene of the accident (which also triggers memories of finding the dead body of her father who killed himself in the kitchen)."

OMG you are way off - I haven't seen OK in years and its still crystal clear - she was crazy for O'Casey (or Casey, whatever his name was). The misery was due to feelings she had for him, which are brought up again, years later, by her son.

Lastly, Casey getting killed was his problem, if I remember correctly he was stone cold drunk. But Olive's "Misery" as you say was due to the personal feelings she had for him - it had nothing to do with Henry.

Oh, one more thought before I go, it wasn't too hard to recognize Kevin was off. Plus, Olive already would have been aware due to her experiences with his Mother. Olive was kind to Kevin, he was one of the few.

One doesn't recall Olive finding her dead father.

[–] brux (14724) 7 years ago

That's way over my head ...
She was cold and boring and did not know how to live.
The son was a real brat, and continued being a brat to the end.
The dad toppled over because of all the BS he held inside ...
but after all that this old bag throws herself at a Rush Limbaugh
Republican jerk ... this was a horrible, disgusting movie.