MovieChat Forums > Death Comes to Pemberley (2014) Discussion > Thumbs down to open-necked Alveston

Thumbs down to open-necked Alveston


It really irked me when young Alveston, in defiance of propriety and without a shadow of dramatic pretext, turned up at Pemberley with his neckcloth undone and his shirt gaping open. It was such a witless and blatantly copycat thing to do. You could almost hear the director saying to the scriptwriter 'Can't we get James Norton's shirt off somehow? Or wet it? No? Oh well, let's open up his shirt at least, give the viewers a flash of bare chest'.

And while I can just about imagine Georgiana so far forgetting propriety as to embrace a fully-dressed Henry Alveston, I simply cannot believe her throwing her arms around a (in Regency terms) half-naked one.

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Oh come on, syntinen, don't be so buttoned-up (if you'll pardon the slight pun)! Just think of this as a tongue-in-cheek allusion (an homage, if you like) to P&P 1995 and 2005.



Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.

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Sorry, supergran, I'm afraid I can't credit the makers of DCtP with the wit for a tongue-in-cheek allusion. Besides, I know I'm in a tiny minority here, but I thought the original Colin Firth wet shirt scene was silly and annoying (and entirely destroyed the sense of the meeting between Lizzy and Darcy as conceived by JA), so the notion that it's going to be endlessly recycled in ever-dumber 'hommages' in subsequent Austen productions just depresses me.

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I also hate the pond scene in P&P95, but Alverston was riding ventre a terre and the open-necked shirt didn't bother me. I thought they were showing that his love for Georgiana was so great that he didn't care about proprieties.

http://currentscene.wordpress.com

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- which sentiment is about as hostile to Jane Austen's entire oeuvre as anything you can imagine. That said, this set of dumb clucks quite possibly did mean to convey something of the kind.


Edited to add: I actually have nothing against the pond scene itself; I thought the idea of showing him momentarily being a 'natural man' was just fine - after all, Lizzy and the Gardiners had hoped to visit the Wordsworths' Lake District as well as the Peak, and that was part of the Zeitgeist too. But having him ride back to Pemberley and engage with lady visitors half-dressed, so that Lizzy was perforce eyeing up his wet torso, was absurd and annoying.

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It's so hard to convey humour in posts. I hope you realize that my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I made my comment. I have a rather mischievous SOH "which delight[s] in anything ridiculous". It'll get me into trouble one day.



Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.

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Unfortunately my SOH doesn’t stretch to delighting in incompetence and dumb ignorance. Of course I accept that the world’s full of people who couldn’t organise a p*ss-up in a brewery, and why should they be able to? - but it depresses me to see them get careers as events managers.

If the director and everybody else involved thought it was remotely proper for a gentleman to ride open-necked to encounter a lady, they were utterly ignorant of Regency manners. And if they didn’t, but decided to show him “galloping ventre a terre” while bare necked, as Julie-30 suggests, to show “that his love for Georgiana was so great that he didn't care about proprieties”, they surely didn’t realise that Jane Austen’s entire literary output, from childhood onwards, was a defence of conventional propriety and a critique of the kind of Romantic sensibility in which young men with picturesquely disarranged locks and daringly loosened (or no) neckwear dashed around spurring their horses to unnecessary speed.

Ignorance of these basic facts isn’t a crime in the general population, but I think we’re entitled to expect it in someone directing a Jane Austen fanfic for the Beeb. Of course the world’s full of people who couldn’t organise a p*ss-up in a brewery, and why should they be able to? - but it depresses me to see them get careers as events managers.

This was thrown into relief for me last night when re-watching Shakespeare in Love – which took the known facts of Shakespeare’s’ career, the origins of Romeo and Juliet and the tradition of English theatre, tore them to shreds, mixed them up and made an Easter bonnet out of them - and is utterly brilliant. (Now SiL is full of real hommages – to Olivier’s Henry V, Zeffirelli’s R&J, Blackadder, Private Eye, Jacobean revenge tragedy, you name it.) And why is it brilliant? Because these were a bunch of talented witty people who completely knew and loved their material*, so they knew how to spoof it rotten without travestying it.



*With the sole exception of one G Paltrow. I’ve always been convinced that one of the things SiL is, is an extended joke played on la Paltrow.

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I don't think they were ignorant of the facts. Imo they deliberately chose to disregard them in favor of artistic interpretation. The costume designer also did the recnt Poldark. I read an interview in which she discussed her decisions for Poldark, which I strongly suspect were the same reasons she made the costume choices she did in DCTP. She disregarded historical accuracy in favor of her own inclinations, those of the actors (i'm amazed at how much input she asks them for!), and the art director, etc.

As for customs of the era, I recently read some cooments linked on the mb for The Crimson Field. It seems that despite hiring expert period advisors, the makers of that series repeatedly ignored their advice in favor of dramatic licence.

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You've missed the point. There's nothing period-inauthentic about a Regency young man throwing propriety and his horse's well-being to the winds by galloping with sexily loosened neckwear to meet his lady-love; fashionable Regency romance literature was stuffed with young men doing things like that, and certainly there were plenty of young men doing the same in real life. But Jane Austen hated that attitude; her entire oeuvre is a manifesto for the importance of conventional good manners and common sense, and the silliness and dangerousness of the Romantic ideal. Anybody who can imagine a Jane Austen hero (as opposed to a Jane Austen cad, or a Jane Austen nincompoop) galloping up to a lady when there is no hurry, and appearing before her improperly dressed when he could perfectly well have stopped to straighten his neckwear, has either never read a Jane Austen novel or hasn't understood a word of what they did read.

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No, I think you missed my point. .
They simply did not care.

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It is a couple of removes from Austen, though: based on what is basically fanfic by P D James.

"Active but Odd"

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Phooey. I was hoping Henry and Georgina would swim nekkid in the Lake and then roll around on a four poster bed....and the OP is fussing about a few undone buttons on Henry's shirt!

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[You're not getting it, are you? In Regency terms, 'a few undone buttons on Henry's shirt' is the equivalent of being half-naked. (Just as Amanda Root and Ciarán Hinds kissing passionately in the street at the end of the 1995 BBC Persuasion was the Regency equivalent of lying down and having sex in public.)

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They weren't kissing passionately on the street. There were no open mouths or tongues involved.

That said, yes, they would not have been kissing in public in 1816. But I still love that scene dearly.

http://currentscene.wordpress.com

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You don't have to open your mouth to kiss passionately. I stand by my statement.

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I get it. I just don't care.

About Regency propriety.

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lol

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